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    Old 08-26-2007, 03:21 AM   #1
    captnanny
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    Exclamation suboxone or methadone?

    Hi, Please bare with me for I am very nervous about even posting on this site. I have been on pain medication for three years now, vicodan, oxycontin, norco and now duragesic. I had a work injury and workmans comp denied treatment to my neck. So just this past April i had two discs removed and a donor bone put in. The problem now is that "medically I don't need this medicine" Physically I do I have to admit. I know that I am addicted. I am real scared to get off of the opiates because I can no longer take time off of work. I only work two days a week anyway and I am so afraid of the pain. The pain makes me crabby, irrational and depressed. At this point the pain is my body telling me it wants more duragesic. I won't but I don't know which medicine will work for me methadone or suboxone. I have to do this, I am really scared I need help.

     
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    Old 08-26-2007, 04:03 AM   #2
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Capt,

    First of all, there are MANY people on this board, more qualified to answer this than me, but I "hear" your desperation, so until they can get here, those who actually take the meds you mention, I'll toss my two cents in for you.

    Methadone and Sub are both used to basically stop opiate with drawls, methadone you can either get from a clinic, which I have read on here, can be low cost, but you have to go each day to get your dose. Dr's also prescribed methadone, for with drawls as well as pain, but most are pain management Dr's...My personal pain management Dr, charges $200 a visit, just to see him, that doesn't include any therapy etc, you may have to have during your appt.
    I have read on here, that only certain Dr's can prescribe the Sub, and that they can only accept so many patients at a time, and that they as well as the sub are expensive.
    Like I said, I got this information from others who posted on this site, so it may not be the same now?? I have never taken either of those.

    I mentioned price because you mentioned only working 2 days a week and unless you manufacture money this habit of ours can become very expensive.

    Like I said, the ones with knowledge, should be here soon, hang in there, the calvary is coming, the people on this board are an amazing wealth of compassion support and information.

    We have all walked in the same pair of dusty torn shoes....

    Still
    Me

     
    Old 08-26-2007, 07:59 AM   #3
    captnanny
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Thanks for your quick response. I will wait for the others to arrive. As for my current money situation, I do have insurance and am receiving income from my I guess retirement stash. I had some money put away in an investment account and am now recieving it as something called money market fund. It won't last for long that is why I need to do something now as well as the longer I wait, the harder it will be. I am trying to imagine right now what it would be like without pain meds and am having a hard time because of the fear. I hope I can get help here and from other support groups.

     
    Old 08-26-2007, 08:15 AM   #4
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Hello Nanny

    I big time understand the dilemma you are facing. I have faced coming off the pain meds myseelf and it is not a picnic.

    I am concerned because I read your words and yes, the distress is obvious. What also is pretty obvious is that desperation is making you jump to answers. Fear of pain also loomed huge in my mind as the time came to get off the meds. However, I think your fear is making you turn headlong into methadone or sub as a way out. How fully aware are you that these meds are just as addicting as what you are currently on? Somewhere along the line, detox from either of them is going to be a long, hard process. I do believe these two meds have much value, but do not believe you are considering them for the right reasons. I think a better plan is an appointment with the prescribing doctor and a full disclosure discussion about the best way for you to withdraw. Any prescribing doctor understands well that after the plan to medicate a patient for pain, a following plan must be developed for helping the patient withdraw. This is pretty routine, Friend. The fear is causing a loss of perspective here. This is also pretty rountine. Smiles.

    Brace yourself, punch the fear in the nose, and get in to see the doctor!

    Best, best wishes
    reach

     
    Old 08-26-2007, 10:51 AM   #5
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    i agree with reach,try ALL other methods of detox first,then if all else fails then look to the very potent drugs of methadone and suboxone.you have no idea what you are gettin into with these drugs.i myself have been on suboxone three different times in the last four yrs,and am currently on it now.cant seem to get off it and remain clean.do your reasearch well before you make a decision you regret later on down the road.good luck-spark

     
    Old 08-27-2007, 02:13 AM   #6
    captnanny
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Thanks for all your comments. Like I stated in my first post I am very nervous. The thing is, I have tried all the different ways, tapering down, going cold turkey for a few days with clonidine and immodium, celexa for my depression. Nothing seems to work I end up SEVERELY DEPRESSED AND SUICIDAL and feel like my brain is going to short circuit. My doc said that I should give one of these a try because I can't live on this stuff forever. My response is always that it seems like the only antidepressant that works. I know that is wrong. Am I worried that I am trading addictions, YES YES YES that I do not want. So I have read that methadone is more addictive than suboxone and UUUGGHHUUGHGHUHG, I don''t know. I don't want to be suicidal during this, or at least when I'm with the kids. I am like their surrogate mother. I can't take any time off of work for inpatient. Anyways, I already have done that for depression. I want to get clean, I know going on sub or meth isn't getting clean but it's my last hope. I don't know what to do.
    I don't want it to be another year and im sitting here contemplating going off either of those two. I want it to be another year and I'm just coming out of the depression from the both of them six months to one year for the full round of sub? I am speaking up my butt right now because I have tried all those that you suggested, I understand I'm trading in one for another, I HATE that but my doctor said that I can't be on the verge of a breakdown everytime we start weaning.

     
    Old 08-27-2007, 04:00 AM   #7
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Hello Nanny

    Honey, I am sorry things have gotten so rough for you. Of course you can not stay in a state of feeling suicidal or constantly on the verge of a breakdown! If you have already truly tried the other pathways, then perhaps it is, indeed, time to consider methadone or suboxone. There is no shame in this at all. I think there has been concern about these drugs by some of us because we did not have the information that you have already tried the other options. I did not happen to use the meth or sub, but it seems to me that these drugs can buy time for some. Time to get the head together and level off with a goal of coming off at some point.

    There is no need to feel defensive if you choose this course of action. We each have to do what we see as a proactive step in getting better. I did not choose this option, but then again, I was forced to retire and that gave me a big cushion. My kids are grown and just hubby and I are in the house. I had no responsibilities and all my energy went into detoxing through tapering over a long period of time. Circumstances differ, plans differ. It is the ultimate goal that connects us on the board.

    Work with your doctor... let him guide you as he knows you, has a history with you as well as a responsibility to you. Let him as well as the board and hopefully, some other real live people, be your support.

    Good wishes
    reach

     
    Old 08-27-2007, 02:25 PM   #8
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Reach and spark, my son is still insisting he needs to go on sub, I don't know what the heck is going on in his head.

    He wants a low dose, insists it will help with back pain and depression, says he still craves opiates but has it under control for now.

    For a friend of mine I have other questions:

    Spark why do you say you can't get off it and stay clean? Do you mean you keep relapsing? Why do doctors keep prescribing it, don't they know it is addicting and expensive?

    Does suboxone make people stay thin, how do you know they are using still if they are on suboxone?

    Cram315

     
    Old 08-27-2007, 07:00 PM   #9
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    cram if your son has been clean off opiates for a while now,i would not reccommend him back on sub at this point.it does nothing for real pain at all and has he tried all the different ads meds for the depression?try this before suboxone maybe he just hasnt had enough clean time off opiates to get clear headed.if he is bound and determined to use drugs no matter what then sub might be what he needs,its a hard call,i dont know the history with him as you do.also some people are fat,some are skinny,and some are normal weight when on sub,it just depends on your metabolism,the sub, in my opinion,has n o bearing on this matter of body mass.
    as far as myself,i mess up ever time i get down to a low dose of sub and go right back to usin opiates for the buzz.hopefully this time i can do it the right way and long taper off this sub later on down the road.i was on methadone for 2yrs prior to this last round of sub and it has been three times as hard goin for methadone to the sub.the last two times i was on hydros and oxys and it was easy to make the trassition from these opiates.reason being that sub is stronger than hydros and oxy,but methadone is stronger than suboxne.my dr and counsellor say that people that are on methadone and go to suboxne have a much much harder time and some dont make it at all,and have to stay on methadone.its been almost 6months and im just startin to feel normal again.i think it has took this long to get all the methadone out of my body to be honest with ya.thats all i know for now-good luck-spark


    nanny-by all means find a doc that can scribe suboxone and make an app to see them.like you said you have tried everything else and it didnt work so this is what sub is made for.do alot of reasearch on it before ya go.good luck-spark

     
    Old 08-28-2007, 08:54 PM   #10
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    Captnanny,
    First off I want to let you know that I know exactly where you are coming from..I was there a little over 3.5yrs ago..I had tried alot of different things trying to get clean..Cold turkey,doctor supervised taper,and even actual detox to rehab a couple times..It seemed no matter what I tried I failed at..Mainly because of the depression that came with being sober for me.It was an ugly,dark,black void of depression that no amount of antidepressant would help..
    My voyage into pain pills was even simular to yours..It started with a back injury in which I first suffered a compression fracture then went back to work before being released from the doctor and ended up rupturing the 2 disks next to the fracture..I also suffer from major chronic headaches due to a large mass on my brain that causes pressure headaches..Well instead of doing anything aggressive with either of the problems the doctors kept me on a regimine of pain meds..Before I knew it one didnt work then two didnt work adn so on and so on..Before I got help I was using massive amounts of oxycontin daily along with large amounts of hydrocodone,fentanyl and morphine..I was consuming approx 360mg of oxycontin(snorting it)approx 200-250mg of hydrocodone(20-25 10mg/500mg tablets by mouth)2400mcg of fentany(3-4 of the 800mcg lolipops each day by mouth) along with approx 240 or so mg of morphine(snorting)..Whats sad is I never realized exactly HOW MUCH I was using on a daily basis until one day I decided to start keeping tabs...I was floored to say the least..What was really sad is I had gotten beyond the point of actually getting high off the meds..That wasnt even my main goal there at the end..I just didnt wanna get sick..
    I decided back in Febuary of 2004 that I would try methadone..For me its been a life saver..I have been on methadone for 3.5yrs now and have no plans on getting off it in the near future..For me it works 3 fold..One it works as far as keeping me off illicit opiates.I have NOT taken a single pain pill since the night before I started the clinic 02-05-04..I also still suffer from chronic pain so it works great for that also..And lastly its been great for my depression..I am NOT saying methadone is for everyone..Or that everyone with an opiate addiction should run as fast as they can to the clinic..I am a FIRM believer that a person has to do what is RIGHT FOR THEM..

    That being said I want to address a few things you mentioned in your post..The first is in what I think was your last post you said that you didnt wanna be here a year later trying to figure out how and when to get off of methadone or sub...If thats the case then I would definately try the sub route first..You can do a short term taper with subs and shouldnt have much trouble..With methadone its reccomended that you spend ATLEAST a year and a half on a stable dose BEFORE beginning to taper..Then you might as well figure in another year or so to actually do the taper itself..So at the very least you are looking at an approx 2.5-3yr commitment from the get go with methadone..Also I will say this..IF suboxone would have been available back when I was first going to start methadone I would have given it a shot first..The thing with Suboxone is if you get on it and for whatever reason it doesnt work for you then you can always switch over to methadone..Its MUCH easier to switch to methadone from suboxone than vice versa..Though you gotta do whatever is right for YOU!!!! Just as I had to do what was right for me..I cant tell you what that is..I can only give you my experience and maybe give you some insight into your choices..I can pray for you and hope for the best for you..Which is something I WILL do..

    Another thing with the suboxone is that you can get it from a doctors office and then from your local pharmacy...Where as methadone is from the clinic ONLY as far as for addiction purposes...While it can be Rx'd for pain management in a doctors office setting it can NOT be Rx'd for addiction purposes in a doctors office setting for longer than 3 days..Its against the Controlled Substance Act here in the USA...I just wanted to make that clear before you wasted your time trying to call around to find a doctors office that will...
    Well I am gonna head to bed...if you have any questions about methadone or methadone treatment for addiction in a clinic setting then please feel free to ask me...I dont mind answering any questions you may have about it..And trust me when I say that I have researched it to death.lol..IYou will be in my thoughts and prayers as you work this all out in your head..Just remember that no matter which choice you make it will be okay in the end..You are in the right frame of mind that whichever you decide on will work for you..Good luck and god bless my friend...If you need me just send up a smoke signal...

    Bdean

     
    Old 08-29-2007, 04:42 AM   #11
    captnanny
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    Re: suboxone or methadone?

    thank you all for your support even after my last post. Yes I was a little defensive. Then I realized you all can't read my mind, especially through a computer. My first post was an attempt to not get emotional as I asked for support. Even as I write now I start to cry because this is HUGE for me. I feel like a failure for not being able to taper down wth doc's approval and now he says it wouldn't be in my best interest to quit cold turkey. I have a name of someone who prescribes the suboxone. My doc gave it to me yesterday. He said that he wants me to try the sub. first because he sees me wanting to continue getting clean with the sub and that the methadone would prob. keep me from wanting to get off it even when they say it's time. I am so afraid of taking the pain, depression and all the bad stuff out on the kids that I nanny for that I don't know what to do. I am only with them two days a week, but don't want to spend my day yelling at them, which happened when i was tapering. Anyway I don't even know what I am saying right now but I still need help, especially making that phone call. Thanks for all the advice and i hope to be here regularly.

     
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