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    Old 07-14-2003, 12:22 PM   #1
    shutter00
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    Angry HDL 25

    Ok, I've been making some headway on my numbers... when I first discovered this problem they were:

    TC 255
    HDL 25
    Trig 570

    I am 33, male, and weigh 192 (I'm 6'1"). Mom and Dad both have always had bad numbers, but neither have had any heart problems and both are in their 60's.

    I have started exercising 3x per week mainly cardio work, and in about 6 weeks and 20 pounds come to these numbers:

    TC: 230
    HDL: 28
    Trig: 340

    So, they are improving, but obviously are not where I want them to be. My doctor suggested possible lipitor, but I've been concerned with what I've read here about it, although the Newsweek cover story on statins last week didn't say much about risks. If I decide to take the med, after it lowers the numbers can you quit taking it, say in a month, and then just continue eating well, exercising, etc. and the numbers will stay low? Or do you have to stay on it?

    Just wondering what my best course of action is here.

    Thanks.

     
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    Old 07-15-2003, 05:24 PM   #2
    ARIZONA73
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    If your parents numbers are in fact similar to yours, and they are free of heart disease, I would also be quite reluctant to take Lipitor. If your doctor is anything like most of the other typical mainstream doctors, he is very likely to keep you on that medication indefinitely. These drugs are powerful, and they can lower cholesterol in a relatively short period of time. At your age, the consequences of taking these drugs for a prolonged period of time would concern me the most, especially since neither of your parents has heart disease. Actually, after having read so many case histories on this board, I am beginning to have very serious doubts about this entire cholesterol theory. I am finding myself more and more inclined to embrace the Pauling-Rath theory regarding heart disease. Eventually, it may prove to be something substantial. I hope so, because then we can go about getting at the root of the problem, instead of merely attacking cholesterol, and treating a symptom with powerful drugs.
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    Old 07-15-2003, 06:35 PM   #3
    shutter00
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    Hi Arizona,

    Thanks for the reply... yeah, I gotta say, for a person with my personality type, worrying about this too much is probably a lot more likely to kill me than a heart attack... I've read stress and anxiety are WAY more of a problem that cholesterol, although I do want to reduce my numbers to healthy levels.

    I have cut way back on carbs, begun exercising 3-5x per week on cardio bike work with my heart rate at 150, and just made a trip yesterday to GNC where I picked up fish oil pills, lecithin pills and vitamin E because of what I've seen you write about oxidized oils. The Vitamin E I got is supposed to be some "super" vitamin E formula called Isomer E.

    What do you think of my improvements in the numbers? I think if I continue working hard, at the pace they're moving, that they should be in the normal range in a couple months or so. What do you think of my regimen to lower them and raise the HDL?

    Thanks,

    Greg

     
    Old 07-15-2003, 07:12 PM   #4
    ARIZONA73
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    Hi Shutter00:

    I've never heard of anything called Isomer E. What's in it? As I see it, you have made some definite improvements. Your problem is not so much that your cholesterol is high, but that your HDL is low, and your triglycerides are high. Are you restricting fats, and consuming a lot of carbohydrates. By doing just the opposite, you can significantly lower your triglycerides and hopefully increase your HDL. Taking supplemental vitamin C, niacin, and garlic standardized for allicin can also help in increasing HDL.

    By the way, I'll bet your doctor never even tested your Lipoprotein(a)level, did he? Well, if he didn't, that wouldn't be all that surprising. In my last post, I mentioned the Pauling-Rath Theory. Their theory implicates Lipoprotein(a) as the most significant contributor to the development of atherosclerosis. I have read so many post on this board listing lab results for TC,LDL,HDL,and triglycerides. But the overall pattern in regards to who inevitably has or ends up with heart disease is very inconsistent. In other words, there is no absolute consistency in a snapshot when it comes down to overall risk. The only real credible explanation for what might actually be occurring has been presented by the Pauling-Rath Theory. At least they offer some form of explanation for what may actually be going on. Now, until someone comes up with a better one, I think that this is something which deserves some serious consideration.

    [url="http://www.orthomed.org/links/papers/rathcard.htm"]http://www.orthomed.org/links/papers/rathcard.htm[/url]
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    Old 07-15-2003, 07:33 PM   #5
    shutter00
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    Arizona,

    You're right... my doc didn't even mention that... is this a relatively new item that is measured in blood work? I will ask her about it for sure in my next visit in a month or so... The article you cited is very interesting. It is amazing how research continues to change and point to different culprits. I wonder if they'll have the answers in our lifetimes.

    As for the Isomer E that I got, here's what's on the bottle:

    It's GNC brand and says on the front "100% more antioxidant capacity than natural vitamin E"

    On the ingrediants:

    Vitamin E (d-alpha Tocopherol) 400 IU
    Total Tocopherols 391 mg

    Then it says "Proprietary Isomer E (TM) blend of d-alpha, d-gamma, d-delta and d-beta Tocopherols"

    Toco-Rich 133 mg
    (Blend of rice bran oil and concentrate,palm oil, red rasberry seed oil, cranberry seed oil)


    As for my diet... yes, I have always been a carb fiend... every meal pasta, bread, or some combination. I've NEVER (believe it or not) been a water drinker (I am now, as of a month ago... it's always been lemonade, cranberry juice and soda). And, I've been on a low-fat diet... So, are you saying I should increase fats? Will that raise my total cholesterol?

    From what I've read from your postings elsewhere, the fish oil should help with the HDL some, and the lecithin I've seen talked about by others. I will pick up the other supplements you recommended as well. I was considering the red yeast rice, but see that it may have some of the dangerous side effects like the prescription statins... what do you think of that?

    Thanks,

    Greg

     
    Old 07-15-2003, 11:15 PM   #6
    Timmy&Cartman
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    Arizona73, You bring up a nice point with Lipoprotein(a). Meds proven to lower Lipoprotein(a) are Niaspan (Niacin) and Advicor (ER Niacin/lovastatin) Statins in combination with Niacin tend to blunt the effect of the Niacin lowering the lp(a) so plain niacin alone would be most beneficial. Estrogen as well will lower lp(a) However that is not for everyone. Just thought I would give you a heads up.

     
    Old 07-16-2003, 09:59 AM   #7
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    Shutter00:

    I suppose that it would be possible for you to experience similar side-effects with red yeast rice, although probably not as likely, since statin drugs are concentrated down and are much more potent. But I would hold off on red yeast rice for the time being. Try to take matters a little at a time.

    It appears that you are taking a good vitamin E supplement, one that contains mixed tocopherols, along with the tocotrienols.

    Evidently, your carbohydrate intake is far too high, and that you need to reduce it. This alone should result in a considerable decrease in triglycerides. Sorry, but I forgot to mention fish oils as well. Fish oil is excellent, as it is already generally accepted as an effective adjunct in lowering your risk of developing heart disease. It has been shown to be especially effective for lowering triglycerides, and may even help elevate your HDL.

    Timmy&Cartman made an interesting observation about the fact that higher estrogen levels tend to result in lower levels of lipoprotein(a). This may in part explain why pre-menopausal women are at a greatly reduced risk of developing heart disease. But afterwards, as estrogen levels decrease and lipoprotein(a) levels rise, their risk level approaches that of men. With this in mind, there is even more reason to take the Pauling-Rath theory seriously, since it only adds to its credibility. The best part about the Pauling-Rath theory is their treatment protocol. It requires no drugs, only a few simple, inexpensive supplements taken at presribed dosages--primarily high doses of vitamin C and Lysine, and possibly some Proline and niacin. But not to worry--with all the brilliant minds on this board, I'm confident that sooner or later we'll get to the bottom of this. Take care.

    P.S. Yes, HDL cholesterol does tend to increase when carbs are reduced and fat intake is increased. The evidence obtained from the Atkins Diet clearly indicates this.



    [This message has been edited by ARIZONA73 (edited 07-16-2003).]
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