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    Old 08-31-2003, 07:13 AM   #16
    Salvatore954
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    Hello Arizona,

    Thanks for your concern. My latest blood chemistry is as follows:

    53 y old/wm

    TC=185
    HDL=61
    LDL=111
    Tri=64
    Homocysteine=7.2
    CRP=1.6
    Iron, free calcium, and fasting glucose are normal
    Didn't test for Lpa or fibrinogen
    Blood pressure is 110/70
    Medications=None

    So you can see everything is really good and always has been. The only thing that stands out is the c-reactive protein of 1.6. This is in the normal range but optimum would be <1 or best <.5.

    My electronic beam tomography (EBT) -- which is the latest evolution CT scan -- shows calcification in 2 arteries, total plaque burden is Agatston 146/calcium volume 119. Those figures mean moderate plaque build up. The moderate range is 100-400. Over 400 is when it gets scary. I think 800-1200 would be like a total blockage, you know, corpse!! My EBT score puts me in the top quarter for my age group. Another words at least 75% have less plaque than I do.

    If my EBT is correct, then I am in the beginning stage of arteriosclerosis and arthroslerosis. So I better do something about it now. My cholesterol and blood pressure is fine so nothing to do there. I have no risk factors. I do have a recurrent rare skin disorder for some 20 years that no one seemed to know what the cause is. Now I am told it is probably due to a virus. So I have had some virus floating through my blood for 20 years unbeknownst to me. We probably all do. The only other health condition I have is a little arthritis.

    So my focus is on reducing my CRP which could be caused by the virus and arthritis. Hence the monolaurin which is lauric acid from coconut oil and is antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal. I am getting good results so it appears to be working. Fish oils and Arthropro from Life Extention Foundation works well on controlling my arthritis though sometimes I still have to take a NASID.

    The calcium that builds up in arteries and organs comes from demineralization of bone and would show up in a free calcium measurement of the blood. Mine is normal but I am taking Vitamin K anyway. Recent research shows K keeps calcium in the bone and can also remove it from the arteries. It is advocated by the Life Extention Foundation. And I am doing the Pauling-Rath protocol to remove the existing plaque. I will retest my CRP in a couple of months and do another EBT in a year to see if I am getting any results. If not I will either increase my dosages or get more aggressive and perhaps include some of Dr. gordon's protocols of enzymes and oral chelation.

    My case is a good one to show heart disease is more than just controlling cholesterol and blood pressure. Microbes and inflammation fill in the equation.

    Sal
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    Old 08-31-2003, 05:34 PM   #17
    ARIZONA73
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    Salvatore,

    Have you any idea how accurate the EBT scan is? Actually, with the exception of the CRP, your other numbers look excellent. Did your doctor advise you to have this scan done based on your CRP, or was it done at your own request? Upon receiving the results of the EBT scan, what was your doctor's opinion and recommendation? Is he aware of this particular treatment protocol(vitamin C, lysine, proline, etc.)that you have elected to try? I'm just curious, since most mainstream doctors have a tendency to ridicule anything which isn't dispensed by the drug companies. On top of that, they are still living in the dark ages when it comes to recognizing the role many supplements play in maintaining good health.
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    Old 08-31-2003, 07:18 PM   #18
    Salvatore954
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    Hello again,

    Well, we seem to be on the same wavelength. I never discuss these things with a doctor. They always nix this stuff. I seldom go to a doctor. I order my own blood tests and imaging. In the present health care environment, I feel it is best to take charge of my own health.

    As far as my EBT, there is room for error in any imaging. It was done twice and I had two radiologists look at the images. Calcium scores I presented are an average and are done by the computer. I prefer to err on the side of caution and treat. This stuff is kind of a hobby for me so I enjoy researching it all. I do not mind experimenting on myself.

    Sal
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    Old 08-31-2003, 08:38 PM   #19
    ARIZONA73
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    Sal,

    I don't trust most doctors, either, and I also prefer to do my own research regarding my health. It is particularly troubling to me that so very few lab tests include a test for Lp(a). Why is that? Is it because some drug company hasn't developed a blockbuster drug which can combat it? When you think about it, an LDL value means very little in the absence of an elevated Lp(a). On the other hand, if the Lp(a) is low, then even a high LDL may be of a much lesser significance. That being said, I just don't understand why doctors are so obsessed with LDL without even knowing what the patient's Lp(a) is. As far as the medical profession is concerned, it seems to me that one hand does not know what the other hand is doing. And in the meantime, so many people are being placed on cholesterol lowering drugs based on so much stupidity. In my opinion, the indiscriminate use of these drugs is getting out of control. And the worst part about it is that all of this is being done for the sake of greed--corporate greed. The drug cartels prosper while the innocent people suffer, often unnecessarily. I often wonder when this insanity is finally going to stop.
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    Old 09-01-2003, 07:02 AM   #20
    Salvatore954
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    Arizona,

    The Lpa test is expensive and I believe not all labs do it and the testing is not standardized so results will vary between labs. Doctors only order these tests -- lpa, crp, fibrinogen, etc. -- if the patient is high risk or has developed heart disease. I goofed in not having it tested so I could have a baseline to check on my therapy.

    But you are absolutely right. Someone can have good LDL levels but have high Lpa and will never know it until they have a heart attack. Maybe that is my problem. When I check my CRP again I will check my Lpa. But now I am on the Pauling therapy, so that will influence the results and if the levels are low, I will not know if it is normal or the result of therapy. Yep, I certainly goofed that one up.

    I am convinced CVD is much more than just cholesterol levels. The relationship between heart attack risk (HAR) and cholesterol is a spreaded out J curve. The J starts at 180-200 and as it goes down HAR goes up and continues to increase as the J goes up. So you have people at 180-200 at both positions. I do believe Lpa, fibrinogen, microbes, and inflammation complete the picture.

    If you are not already a member, I think you would enjoy the Life Extention Foundation (*******). I think they are great. Very pragmatic and objective in evaluating all this stuff. They push a lot of their products though, but they do have quality supplements and good formulas. I take a lot of their vitamins. The Life Extention Mix and Super Booster is the best basic supplement on the market. Check out their website for information.

    Sal
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    Old 09-01-2003, 09:13 AM   #21
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    phd,

    Quote:
    The studies, focusing on different populations totaling about half a million people, indicate that about 90% of people with severe heart disease have one or more of four classic risk factors: smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure.
    Always be skeptical of stuff like this. Remember that even more than "90% of people with severe heart disease" have ridden in a car, been caught in the rain, have had a mole, or have eaten chicken.
    Why have these events been excluded as a cause of heart disease.

    Proving Cause and Effect needs something more definitive than illustating coincidence. One's drinking coffee in the morning DOES NOT cause the sun to rise.


    Salvatore,
    Very interesting stuff on the EBT. Do you have any idea of US HMO's are covering these now or are they still being viewed as "experimental?" They HAVE to be cheaper than arteriography and are certainly less invasive and risky?
    Any idea of their efficacy?




    [This message has been edited by zip2play (edited 09-01-2003).]

     
    Old 09-01-2003, 09:47 AM   #22
    sixers
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    Arizona,

    There is a drug to lower Lp[a]. It is Niaspan. The active ingredient is the vitamin niacin. Niaspan allows you to take the large quantities of niacin necessary for lipid improvement.

    Sal,

    Until 1996 I seldom went to the doctor.
    At the age of 58 I found that I had one cornary artery blocked 95% and 2 others a little less. After triple bypass I tried diet and exercise and they helped. But not enough for a person with 4 risk factors. I went on Niaspan and have had blood tests every 6 mo. My results have been great.

    bob
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    Old 09-01-2003, 10:52 AM   #23
    ARIZONA73
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    Sixers,

    I'm happy to hear that you have obtained good results with Niaspan(niacin). Yes, I have heard that niacin has an Lp(a) lowering effect, and in combination with high doses of vitamin C, the results may be even better. Have you had your Lp(a) measured?
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    Old 09-02-2003, 10:33 PM   #24
    Timmy&Cartman
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    Arizona,

    In addition to sixers' comments, Niaspan is shown to lower lp(a) by 32%. Incombination with a statin that rate drops to a 22% reduction. Statins blunt the effect of the niacin. My theory on why we don't see big pharma marketing a drug to treat lp(a) is because a majority of the statins actually increase lp(a) even the new statin crestor raises lp(a) by 6%. What ever big pharma states steers the market unfortunately. That is why they don't even bring up lp(a).

     
    Old 09-26-2003, 04:24 PM   #25
    sixers
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    Arizona,

    You wrote;

    <I'm happy to hear that you have obtained good results with Niaspan(niacin). Yes, I have heard that niacin has an Lp(a) lowering effect, and in combination with high doses of vitamin C, the results may be even better. Have you had your Lp(a) measured?>

    Until this last time the doctor did not request Lp{a}.
    I was not too concerned because I knew I was taking the maximum FDA approved amount of the only drug known to lower Lp{a}. This time I specifically requested Lp{a} be tested. I got the results yesterday.

    LDL---------86
    HDL---------77
    Tri---------46
    Total C----172
    Lp{a}------7.1

    Needless to say I was pleased with all of these result.

    bob

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    Old 10-13-2003, 12:17 AM   #26
    sixers
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    Here is a good article on Lp{a}.
    [url="http://www.labcorp.com/pdf/Lp_a_Physician_Capsule_LabCapsule_0732.p df"]http://www.labcorp.com/pdf/Lp_a_Physician_Capsule_LabCapsule_0732.p df[/url]

    bob
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    Old 10-22-2003, 07:10 PM   #27
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    Where did you get the data on statins increasing Lp(a)? Are there sources that you could site for me, it would make my search much easier. Also, are all statins accounted for (Lipitor, Zocor, Lescol XL, Pravachol, Lovastatin, Baycol, Crestor)? Thank you.

     
    Old 10-23-2003, 05:39 PM   #28
    sixers
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    Here is another interesting article on Lp[a]. My Lp[a] was low at last test but I wish I had history before I started Niaspan 6 years ago. From my family backgroundI believe my Lp[a] was probably high contributing to my heart attack at 58. I consider myself very lucky that my cardiologist put me on Niaspan instead of a statin.

    bob


    Heart disease and heredity

    "Eat right, exercise, don’t drink too much, never, ever smoke, and you will live a long and healthy life."




    Knowing that his family has a history of heart disease, Doctor Donald Meyer followed his own advice every day of his life. In addition, in his early 40’s he began to have regular stress tests done, a simple walking treadmill test to measure his heart’s reaction to activity. All of his stress tests were normal, and he had always had a reasonably low cholesterol level of around 170. The glowing health of this vital, superbly fit man was evident at a glance; none of his patients had to wonder if he truly practiced what he preached.

    This year’s stress test went well, too. It wasn’t until the second phase of his testing, a heart scan, that the trouble showed up. On to a more definitive heart cathaterization…. Doctor Meyer’s heart had some serious blockages in it, way too serious to ignore. Approximately 5 days later, the doctor became the patient, stretched out under the sharp blade of a Cardiac Surgeon.

    A suitable vein was harvested from his leg, between ankle and thigh, and segments of that vein were used to “bypass” the blockages that were impeding the blood flow to his heart. Donald Meyer didn’t have the usual single or double bypass; he had a quintuple (5) bypass. One blockage was so severe, that in his, and his Cardiologist’s opinion, he would have had a heart attack within a year.

    Now that the immediate danger has passed, is he still scared? “YEAH!!! He replied, “But, I’ve also gained a lot of knowledge about why this happened.”

    When you live an ultra-healthy lifestyle, as did your father and grandfather, and all of you have had either a heart attack, or in Donald Meyer’s case, evidence of heart disease before age 65, there must be genetic factors at play. A scientist at heart, Meyer has been spending a lot of time researching genetics and heart disease. In his case, it is his factor of lipoprotein(a) that is elevated to above normal levels. To keep it simple, a high level of lipoprotein(a) is the Meyer family’s genetic marker for heart disease. He, his father and his grandfather all have it, his brother does not. His children, soon to be tested, have a 50% chance of inheriting this dominant gene.

    Although prevention is no longer an option for Donald Meyer, who has not been ‘cured’ only ‘treated’ for his heart disease, beginning the correct medication now will slow the progression. His children and grandchildren who inherit the Lipoprotein(a) factor may be able to avoid heart disease by simply taking the prescription form of Niacin, called Niaspan, for life. Simple genetic testing will reveal which of his offspring will need to take it to reduce their chances of heart disease in the future.

    What can the average person without a medical background do to prevent their own bypass surgery at age 51? “This is the message we need to get across”, said Meyer, “We’re all empowered to figure things out for ourselves.” In his case, he went to Libraries and on the Internet to research the genetic link to his heart disease.


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    He goes on to explain, “If you have an immediate family member (father, mother, sister, brother) who has had a heart attack before ages 60-65, for no apparent reason (meaning they live a healthy lifestyle and watch their cholesterol) then you should definitely look into genetic causes for your family’s history of heart disease.”

    “Most doctors are used to looking only at definable factors for heart disease, such as weight, drinking/smoking, cholesterol. Genetic causes for heart disease are now considered to be distinct factors. If you ask your doctor to check you for genetic factors, and he says ‘huh?’, ask him or her to have you tested for:


    -Lipoprotein(a)

    -Homocysteine level

    -Apolipoprotein(a, b, and e)

    IN ADDITION TO A COMPLETE PHYSICAL!”

    Physically, Meyer’s recovery from bypass surgery is coming along very well. The most pain has been in his leg where the vein was taken, in addition to general fatigue, and transient depression. “The depression is really a non-issue now,” said Meyer, “but it is to be expected after almost any major surgery or trauma to the body.” Another feeling that Meyer is well entitled to is anger. After doing everything possible to prevent it, heart disease still ‘got him’ and he laughingly admits, oh, yes, he was, and still is a little angry about that!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Title: Heart disease and heredity
    Description: Heart disease or heart attacks before age 65 indicate a hereditary genetic factor(s). What tests to ask your doctor for based on your family history.

    Copyright 2002 by PageWise, Inc.

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    Old 11-09-2003, 04:04 PM   #29
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Salvatore954
    Hello, I agree with you, Arizona. Niacin or flush-free niacin will lower Lpa. Has anyone tried the Pauling-Rath therapy of Lysine, Proline and Vitamin C to lower Lpa or clear plaque?
    I WAS TESTED FOR MY LPa LAST YEAR, 112mg AS YOU KNOW IS HIGH, SO I DECIDED TO TRY THE LINUS PAULING THERAPY.I HAVE BEEN ON IT FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW (LOW DOSE) I AM HOPING TO GET TESTED SOMETIME SOON.

    Last edited by 100; 11-10-2003 at 03:45 PM.

     
    Old 11-11-2003, 01:10 PM   #30
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    I have found this thread about lpa fascinating. Since you all seem very knowledgeable, perhaps I could ask a question of you. My 86 year old mother has had high total cholesterol for as long as she can remember being tested. All 6 of us kids do too. We usually use our ratios to determine risk as our HDL levels are high and our triglycerides low. However, her doctor is pressuring her to start statins because of her LDLs. Here are her numbers:

    HDL 92
    Tri's 56
    LDL 236

    She is very healthy and active for 86. Diet doesn't seem to budge her levels. Would the test for lp(a) be beneficial in determining whether these high LDL levels are actually a concern? Are there any other tests her doctor could perform that would tell if the LDL levels are causing damage rather than just prescribe statins because of a number?

    Thanks for all your help.

     
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