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  • Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

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    Old 10-07-2008, 12:48 AM   #1
    cutejenny77
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    Unhappy Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Hi,
    I just have my serum iron, TIBC tested to find out the reasons of low Ferritin, following is the result

    Serum Iron 8.8 (9.0-27.0) umol/L
    TIBC 38.1 (40.8-76.6) umol/L

    And my Ferritin tested one month ago was also low Ferritin 34.2 ug/ml (6-159), VB12 245pmol/l (156-672)

    So What type of Anemia I have? Normally, if someone is lack of iron, he/she would not have lower level of TIBC, but high level, right? What's wrong with me and why?

    Thanks

     
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    Old 10-08-2008, 08:46 PM   #2
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    You are considered anemic when one or more of the three, RBC, Hgb & Hct are below range, you didn't give these values. A lowered ferritin means low iron stores and you might eventually become anemic.

    You are right, it's doesn't look like a typical iron deficiency, but you are low normal B-12 too. When a person has low iron AND low B-12 this can change the hematological results. Maybe this is what is happening to you. You need to get more answers from your doctor. What do they think about this? It could be a different type of anemia all together. We cannot answer this question definitively, only a doctor is the one with the answers. Keep us posted. FLFLOWERGIRL

     
    Old 10-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #3
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    H There
    I agree with flowergirl spot on there.......

    Your B12 is way too low if though it is in the so called normal range in Japan antything below 550 is treated....
    You can low iron and B12 as well also do you know your RBC, MCV & WC some people who have B12 defeciency have high MCV
    What sort of symptoms have you been experiencing?

    As flowergirl suggested ask your doc

    I am B12 deficient and this something you need to address for sure......
    My ferritin was on the low side as well
    Folate deficient
    Vit d deficient

    I would love to know what symptoms you have as that can give some sort of picture

    Good Luck

     
    Old 10-10-2008, 06:00 AM   #4
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Hi, Flower girl and rainbows end.. I always feel lack of engergy, sometimes dizzy due to the low blood pressure, and sometimes I have Blood-streaked phlegm eyes. And I am a Hashimoto's hypoT sufferer, too.

    Ferritin tested one month ago was
    Ferritin 34.2 ug/ml (6-159),
    VB12 245 pmol/l (156-672)
    folic acid (folate) >24 ng/l (3.2-6.4)

    The following is what I had tested two month ago
    MCV 93.1 (82.0-92.0)
    MCH 31.4 (27.0-31.0)
    MPV 8.2 (8.5-11.8)
    RBC 4.05 (3.50-5.50),
    PCV 37.70(35.00-50.00)
    Hgb 127 ( 110-150)
    WBC 5.9 (4.0-10.0)
    platelets counts 143 (100-300)

    It is said that I may have methylation issues. I also have very high normal MCV and MCH which can also indicate an isue with folate and B12 metabolism. Is that true? If it is is the treatment for it? having sublingual methylcobalamin form of B 12 could solve it or not?

    Thanks

    Last edited by cutejenny77; 10-10-2008 at 06:03 AM.

     
    Old 10-10-2008, 05:42 PM   #5
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cutejenny77 View Post
    Hi, Flower girl and rainbows end.. I always feel lack of engergy, sometimes dizzy due to the low blood pressure, and sometimes I have Blood-streaked phlegm eyes. And I am a Hashimoto's hypoT sufferer, too.

    Ferritin tested one month ago was
    Ferritin 34.2 ug/ml (6-159),
    VB12 245 pmol/l (156-672)
    folic acid (folate) >24 ng/l (3.2-6.4)

    The following is what I had tested two month ago
    MCV 93.1 (82.0-92.0)
    MCH 31.4 (27.0-31.0)
    MPV 8.2 (8.5-11.8)
    RBC 4.05 (3.50-5.50),
    PCV 37.70(35.00-50.00)
    Hgb 127 ( 110-150)
    WBC 5.9 (4.0-10.0)
    platelets counts 143 (100-300)

    It is said that I may have methylation issues. I also have very high normal MCV and MCH which can also indicate an isue with folate and B12 metabolism. Is that true? If it is is the treatment for it? having sublingual methylcobalamin form of B 12 could solve it or not?

    Thanks
    HI There
    My recommendation for you would be to have some other tests they are;
    uMMA
    Homocysteine (these 2 will be elevated with a B12 defeiciency)

    It may also be worth having intrinsic factor antibodies,partiel cell antibodies, gstrin,ana....As your MCV is high this will look for Pernacious Anemia Megablastic anemia this will not enable any B12 to be absorbed....

    I do beleive that as you have Hasimotos a lot of people with this also have Pernacious anemia you can have lots of autoimmunne things at the same time

    You can get injections of B12 which are important...
    Yes the sublinguals are great make sure you put hem under your top lip and allow to dissolve slowly over around 40mins the slower the better.

    I had a B12 deficiency I say had cause I am having therapy and most of my symptoms have gone I have had very aggressive therapy though thankfully I have agreat doc...........I went undiagnosed for around 5 years but I am sure I had it longer.....Here are just some of my symptoms....
    Dizziness,Foggy head,drugged feeling,severe anxiety, intolerance to cold, depressed,numbness, tingling,confusion,eye problems, cognitive problems, positive for rombergs, fatigue,short breathe,palpitations,electrical like pains in the flanks,lhermittes, couldnt find the right words when I wanted to ,memory loss,speech difficulties all this began when I was 37 by the time I was 43 I couldnt talk properly and had memory loss it was scarey I have 2 children and a supportive loving husband thankfully...
    anyways I have rambled enough about me......

    If you have neurological damage Methylcobalamin seems to be the most effective.......

    Please try to get those tests done if yo have no joy with your doc get another one or request to see a heamotologist.....
    Keep us posted

    Good Luck

     
    Old 10-10-2008, 06:49 PM   #6
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rainbows End View Post
    HI There
    My recommendation for you would be to have some other tests they are;
    uMMA
    Homocysteine (these 2 will be elevated with a B12 defeiciency)

    It may also be worth having intrinsic factor antibodies,partiel cell antibodies, gstrin,ana....As your MCV is high this will look for Pernacious Anemia Megablastic anemia this will not enable any B12 to be absorbed....

    I do beleive that as you have Hasimotos a lot of people with this also have Pernacious anemia you can have lots of autoimmunne things at the same time

    You can get injections of B12 which are important...
    Yes the sublinguals are great make sure you put hem under your top lip and allow to dissolve slowly over around 40mins the slower the better.

    I had a B12 deficiency I say had cause I am having therapy and most of my symptoms have gone I have had very aggressive therapy though thankfully I have agreat doc...........I went undiagnosed for around 5 years but I am sure I had it longer.....Here are just some of my symptoms....
    Dizziness,Foggy head,drugged feeling,severe anxiety, intolerance to cold, depressed,numbness, tingling,confusion,eye problems, cognitive problems, positive for rombergs, fatigue,short breathe,palpitations,electrical like pains in the flanks,lhermittes, couldnt find the right words when I wanted to ,memory loss,speech difficulties all this began when I was 37 by the time I was 43 I couldnt talk properly and had memory loss it was scarey I have 2 children and a supportive loving husband thankfully...
    anyways I have rambled enough about me......

    If you have neurological damage Methylcobalamin seems to be the most effective.......

    Please try to get those tests done if yo have no joy with your doc get another one or request to see a heamotologist.....
    Keep us posted

    Good Luck
    Thank you very much, Rainbow!

    I forgot to post the HCY result, that is

    HCY 9.70 (3.00-12.00), I will have the MMA tested next time..

    But why tested gstrin, ?

    If I may ask, What aggressive therapy are you taking? Injections of VB 12?

    Thank you again, I will go to another Hemotologist, but wondering if he/she would say "all is normal in your blood report" and know nothing to do with my anemia! I went to a hemotologist once, and he told me everything was OK and he had no clue at all about my "high folate" number!

    Last edited by cutejenny77; 10-10-2008 at 07:16 PM.

     
    Old 10-12-2008, 05:38 AM   #7
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Hi cutejenny77
    How are you today.......

    High folate levels can indicate a B12 deficiency as folate needs B12......It could also mean you have been supplementing but you dont mention this or you just have a diet with good amounts of folate.....

    Do you take any form of vitamin supplement ?

    My therapy is this 10,000mcg via injection 3 times a week until symptoms are better..then we will do 2 times a week to 1 and 5000mcg and use subs as well
    I also take doses of folate with my injections to help the uptake.....I am also vitD deficient...
    This has helped hugely I now have no tingling and numbness and my head oh my head is back to normal at last.....
    I was orginally on Hydroxo 1 per week did nothing my new doctor likes to keep the body flooded with the B12 and the methyl type as it is the best for neuro damage.....He says the levels should be maintained at 1500-2000.....

    We dont know for sure what has caused my deficiency but we know it is real doc suspects gluten but is nonconclusive as the bloods didnt show it had endoscopy but I was all ready on the gluten free diet so it would have skewed tests anyway doc says if you feel better of it dont eat it and I do feel better however I do slip often.........I do get all the symptoms when I eat gluten and have those deficiencies like folate b12 vitD my ferritin was low but normal...Will be having rechecks this week.......

    Sorry I have rambled on a bit hope it is helpful anyway

    Keep us posted

    Goodluck

     
    Old 10-12-2008, 05:53 AM   #8
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Thank you, rainbow, I will go to a specialist, but wonder if he/she could really help...and it seems that there is no uMMA test in the lab. Did you do those tests? so your uMMA is high?

     
    Old 10-12-2008, 10:48 PM   #9
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cutejenny77 View Post
    Thank you, rainbow, I will go to a specialist, but wonder if he/she could really help...and it seems that there is no uMMA test in the lab. Did you do those tests? so your uMMA is high?
    Hi
    What country are you in cutejenny77?
    As the uMMA should be accesible if not the serum MMA test should be although it is not as sensetive as the urine testing.........

    No I didnt have it as my B12 was well and truely below the average and it was pretty obvious I had a deficiency in the cellular level.........As I was deficient in the serum here in Australia if that is the case the labs will run a B12 active test I was also below levels in that as well which they use as adefinite deficiency but the uMMA is a really good measurement......
    In my case I would have asked for it if I had known about it at the time I have so much B12 in me now it wouldnt be worth checking it now.....In my part of Australia there is only one lab that does the uMMA test

    A hematologist will be able to sort you out dont worry......You will find someone taht will be able to help you not all doctors are hopeless.......You just have to be in control of your health and alittle persistent at times if ine doesnt work you simpley fire them and hire another.......I always look at it like this I employ the doctor he works for me if he is not what I am after I simpley hire another...Dont let yourself be intimated by them....

    I wish you all the luck and please keep in touch to let us know how it all pans out for you...
    cheers
    Rainbows End

     
    Old 10-13-2008, 01:44 AM   #10
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Thanks, Rainbow,

    Just came back from a "so-called" doctor specialized in blood disorder, who said that my RBC, RTHB,HCT is normal and I am not anemic, and there are no tests I mentioned in the lab of hospital.

    I have some other questions, do you think for anemia, three factors are essential? : folate (red cell folate and serum folate), V B 12 (Serum B12, Active V B 12, HCY, MMA), Iron (Serum Iron, TIBC). For lab pannel, they often take them as a whole set.

    For VB 12 defficiency, taking folate only for supplement is dangerous for neuro damage, right?

    For my case, because I am Hashimoto's hypoT, there is 14% of chances to get Pernacious Anemia. and for the "wierd" blood report I got, I think I could have two kinds of mild anemia combination, iron defficient, and Vit B 12.

    I always have a diet full of meat/seafish, so I think that is why my serum folate is so high. I am now taking Daily Value of iron supplement and Complex B, will take Methy-B12 soon. Because there are no specific tests in my region. So I would have a bet to take them to see if things could be improved.

    Last edited by cutejenny77; 10-13-2008 at 01:46 AM.

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 05:03 AM   #11
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cutejenny77 View Post
    Thanks, Rainbow,

    Just came back from a "so-called" doctor specialized in blood disorder, who said that my RBC, RTHB,HCT is normal and I am not anemic, and there are no tests I mentioned in the lab of hospital.

    I have some other questions, do you think for anemia, three factors are essential? : folate (red cell folate and serum folate), V B 12 (Serum B12, Active V B 12, HCY, MMA), Iron (Serum Iron, TIBC). For lab pannel, they often take them as a whole set.

    For VB 12 defficiency, taking folate only for supplement is dangerous for neuro damage, right?

    For my case, because I am Hashimoto's hypoT, there is 14% of chances to get Pernacious Anemia. and for the "wierd" blood report I got, I think I could have two kinds of mild anemia combination, iron defficient, and Vit B 12.

    I always have a diet full of meat/seafish, so I think that is why my serum folate is so high. I am now taking Daily Value of iron supplement and Complex B, will take Methy-B12 soon. Because there are no specific tests in my region. So I would have a bet to take them to see if things could be improved.
    Hi cutejenny77
    I will do my best to answer your questions....

    It is great you eat lots of meat/seafish sa they contains large amounts of B12 esp sardines B12 is only available in animal products.......
    But your not going to get folate you get this from your greens like broccoli,beans peas sprout legumes, liver (which I wouldnt eat these days)
    rice ,barley, wheatgerm to name a few...

    Yes you can have two different types of anemia at once..........With folate anemia which seems unlikely and B12 anemia the red cells are enlarged & a differnt shape whe they do a periphal smear of the blood this will show up..
    You do not get neuro symptoms with folate deficiency anemia.....
    You are right you should never take large amount of folate without having your B12 levels checked as it can mask a B12 deficiency as it corrects the blood but the damage will continue..........

    For anemai you do not need to have those 3 factors you can have iron deficiency anemia,folate deficiency anemia & B12 deficiency anemia the last 2 being PA or megablastic anemia all independent of each other if you know what I mean or you can have all 3 at the same time you can be folate & B12 deficient at the same time I was but I never had anemia....It gets complicated doesnt it LOL
    In B12 anemia you will have low red cells,high MCV, low white cells

    You may not be iron anemia but you have something going on and would suspect it has something to do with B12 as yours is low your MCV is a little high to did they not look at that as are RBC and WBC? And you ferritin is on the lowish side so was mine......

    Well you should find another doctor injections would be great are you going to take methyl subs at 5000mcg.....

    Jenny do you have any other symptoms you may have mentioned but Iam off the page sorry.......

    Really try another doc I cant diagnose obviously and really tell you what you should do taking the supplements will skew the tests for sure but you may not get any better info anyway but it is up to you if you choose to try the supplements and see if you get better.....I beleive Jarrows Methycobalamin 5000mcg are one of the best brands over your way


    Let me know if I can help further you take very good care of yourself

    Goodluck

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 05:23 AM   #12
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    Thanks, Rainbow,

    Today I read through the labtestonline for the CBC test and other related tests as well their meanings. Well, I do try to self-diagnose... High MCV indicates the red cell is bigger, and low TIBC does not indicate iron defficiency, but probably folate or B12 defficiency. but low Ferritin does indicate iron defficiency...I did the logic job on my lab reports.. And my serum folate is very high as well as I have a diet rich in folate. So the most possible defficiency is B12 and iron. You said that less than 500 in B12 would be treated in Japan, which surprised me. I don't know if it is primary due to the instrict factor antibody or secondary due to the wrong cooking method. If it is primary, it is PA you mentioned. But no matter what the reason is, to supplement B12 is a great idea to correct the current condition. I would have a try. BTW, how long will the supplement of B12 take effect on the lab work? 1 month, 2 months?

    Jenny

    Last edited by cutejenny77; 10-14-2008 at 07:38 PM.

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 09:27 PM   #13
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    Re: Low Serum Iron, TIBC &Ferritin, what's wrong?

    [QUOTE=cutejenny77;3760631]Thanks, Rainbow,

    Today I read through the labtestonline for the CBC test and other related tests as well their meanings. Well, I do try to self-diagnose... High MCV indicates the red cell is bigger, and low TIBC does not indicate iron defficiency, but probably folate or B12 defficiency. but low Ferritin does indicate iron defficiency...I did the logic job on my lab reports.. And my serum folate is very high as well as I have a diet rich in folate. So the most possible defficiency is B12 and iron. You said that less than 500 in B12 would be treated in Japan, which surprised me. I don't know if it is primary due to the instrict factor antibody or secondary due to the wrong cooking method. If it is primary, it is PA you mentioned. But no matter what the reason is, to supplement B12 is a great idea to correct the current condition. I would have a try. BTW, how long will the supplement of B12 take effect on the lab work? 1 month, 2 months?




    Hi cutejenny77
    It would be good to know the cause of the deficiency some people say they dont care as long as they are getting the B12 other never find out but I think it is wise as some causes are heridtary so you can let other family members be aware not to mention your own children if you have any or may in the future.....
    I would suggest intrinsic factor antibodies,partiel cell antibodies,also celiac (by the way you can have problem with gluten and not be a celiac as such)
    crohns,h-pylori,bacterial over growth they can all cause B12 deficiency some like crohns and celiac will cause iron, vit D deficiencies too............

    If you have PA you will need ongoing treatment as with crohns so it is good to find out...

    With the supplements and there effect on lab tests this should happen fairly quickly if a doc is treating PA the standard protocol is 1 everyday for a week then1 per week for a month then one permonth they wil usually check after the monthly shots to see what your levels are like.....
    I personally prefer not to get to caught up in my labs with B12 anyway as I know I have plenty just by the way i feel I would know if it had fallen but i dont give mine a chance to fall as I am consistently flooding my system.......

    If yo are having neiro symptoms who will probably find you will need more than just 1 sub a day & some cofactors as well which you should take with B12 for it to be more effective.....

    Cheers
    Rainbow

    Last edited by robinegg; 10-15-2008 at 07:47 PM.

     
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