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    Old 12-29-2008, 12:06 PM   #16
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    thanx iadt2000 iread somewhere that you said if the prostate is normal size the pc
    would be a 1 my prostate is enlarged so if i have pc what would it be

     
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    Old 12-29-2008, 12:59 PM   #17
    daff
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    thanx iadt2000 iread somewhere that you said if the prostate is normal size the pc
    would be a 1 my prostate is enlarged so if i have pc what would it be
    There are many with high PSA and no prostate cancer. PSA readings can guide doctors as to when a biopsy is needed-- and a biopsy is what will show the presence of cancer. While it's conceivable that you have prostate cancer, based on your PSA and free PSA tests, the odds are probably about 1 in 20 that you have this disease. But since I'm not a doctor, he's the one to tell you more--

     
    Old 12-29-2008, 02:08 PM   #18
    IADT3since2000
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    thanx iadt2000 iread somewhere that you said if the prostate is normal size the pc
    would be a 1 my prostate is enlarged so if i have pc what would it be
    Hi Eddie,

    I see you already got an excellent reply from daff. I'll give you a few more facts from a different angle.

    Highly respected prostate cancer surgeon/researcher William Catalona, MD, has had research published showing that the following PSAs are average for men with no clinical evidence of prostate cancer:

    ages 40 to 49: PSA averages .7;
    ages 50-59: PSA averages 0.9;
    ages 60 to older: PSA averages 1.4.

    Dr. Catalona said that men with a PSA score at the average or lower value for their age group had a very low risk of prostate cancer.

    (IMPaCT Conference, September 2007, Program book, page 40).

    Size of the prostate is fairly well related to PSA. The book "A Primer on Prostate Cancer - The Empowered Patient's Guide," says on page F4 that the volume of the gland times 0.066 tells how much normal, benign PSA a prostate is expected to produce. Normal prostates are often about 20 to 30 cubic centimeters (cc) in size, so a 20 cc gland would produce 20 times 0.066 PSA units, which calculates to 1.32 of PSA from normal cells. A gland of 30 cc would produce 30 times 0.066 PSA units, which calculates to 1.98 of PSA from normal cells. You get the idea. If your prostate is enlarged and you know the size in cc, which your urologist can probably tell you, you can estimate the amount of PSA that would be from normal cells. If that's close to or more than your actual PSA, it's a helpful indicator that you are less likely to have cancer.

    However, the guideline of 0.066 per cc of prostate gland is not exact - more of a rule of thumb. One thing that makes a difference is the Gleason Score, which you would not know unless you had a positive biopsy and were diagnosed. Patients with a lot of high Gleason cancer, especially in the 8 to 10 range, often have somewhat lower PSAs than we would otherwise expect because the cells are so broken down by cancer that they no longer can produce as much PSA, even though lower Gleason cancers produce much more PSA than normal cells do.

    All that said, if you know your PSA and the size of the prostate, which urologists can estimate pretty well, you have a fairly good idea if there is cancer present and can get some idea of how much is there (you can subtract the expected normal PSA from the total PSA and then roughly estimate the volume of cancer.

    I know this is a bit complicated, but I hope it helps more than confuses.

    Take care,

    Jim

     
    Old 12-29-2008, 05:28 PM   #19
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    Iadt3 and daff thanx a lot iam becoming more educated. does prostate supplements
    mask or hide the real psa numbers,my urology didnt want me to take any

     
    Old 12-29-2008, 08:20 PM   #20
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    ... does prostate supplements
    mask or hide the real psa numbers,my urology didnt want me to take any
    You're welcome. When we are new to being concerned about prostate cancer, we all have a lot to learn. It's good that we can help each other.

    The only supplement that I know of that might mask cancer by lowering PSA artificially is saw palmetto. However, there are serious quality problems with so many brands of saw palmetto that PSA would be unlikely to be affected. I have never taken saw palmetto because the research is not impressive.

    I feel confident that several supplements are probably a big help in preventing or coping with prostate cancer , but none of the evidence is conclusive . That may be why your doctor is against them. On the other hand, many doctors I've become acquainted with are quite ignorant about nutrition and prostate cancer; they just aren't trained in it, and they don't spend time now learning about it , even though many studies on it are published each year . I posted a new thread about supplements starting back on March 6, 2008, which you could find in a search of this board. The title was "Nutrition and lifestyle tactics - books, resources and a quick summary."

    Hope this helps.

    Jim

     
    Old 02-12-2009, 08:17 AM   #21
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IADT3since2000 View Post
    You're welcome. When we are new to being concerned about prostate cancer, we all have a lot to learn. It's good that we can help each other.

    The only supplement that I know of that might mask cancer by lowering PSA artificially is saw palmetto. However, there are serious quality problems with so many brands of saw palmetto that PSA would be unlikely to be affected. I have never taken saw palmetto because the research is not impressive.

    I feel confident that several supplements are probably a big help in preventing or coping with prostate cancer , but none of the evidence is conclusive . That may be why your doctor is against them. On the other hand, many doctors I've become acquainted with are quite ignorant about nutrition and prostate cancer; they just aren't trained in it, and they don't spend time now learning about it , even though many studies on it are published each year . I posted a new thread about supplements starting back on March 6, 2008, which you could find in a search of this board. The title was "Nutrition and lifestyle tactics - books, resources and a quick summary."

    Hope this helps.

    Jim
    my psa in november was 3.2 and free psa was 30% i did a psa at work feb1 it was 5.5
    whats going on i know in november my urolygist said i have a modredly enlarged prostate

     
    Old 02-12-2009, 01:00 PM   #22
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    to idat2000

     
    Old 02-12-2009, 07:08 PM   #23
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    my psa in november was 3.2 and free psa was 30% i did a psa at work feb1 it was 5.5
    whats going on i know in november my urolygist said i have a modredly enlarged prostate
    It would take more followup work to know for sure what is going on, but my guess as a layman now savvy about the disease but with no enrolled medical education is that an infection or inflammation rather than cancer is causing the increase. Those November numbers look good, and that rapid increase of more than two points just strikes me as too great to be cancer. It could easily be caused by infection or inflammation.

    It's also possible that you had a different brand of PSA test, one that uses a different part of the PSA molecule, and that could have made up some of the difference. Also, if you had sex or rode a horse or motorcycle, etc., a day or so before the test, that could have contributed to the increase.

    If it were me, I would follow up with another PSA test and free PSA test at the urologist's office, and if there were still a concern, go on from there, perhaps with a PCA3Plus test.

    Take care,

    Jim

     
    Old 03-13-2009, 06:36 AM   #24
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daff View Post
    The high free PSA percentage is a good thing-- and your overall PSA is in range for your age. My doctor got concerned when, at about your age, my PSA went from 2.9 to 3.9. He advised me to get another test three months later, which came in at 4.2. I then got a biopsy to learn that I did test positive for prostate cancer.

    If your doctor performs a DRE prior to your blood test for PSA, that stimulation can cause the PSA level to be higher than it normally would be. Also, sexual activity or bicycle riding within three days or so of the PSA test can also cause the level to be higher.

    It doesn't sound as if your doctor is overly concerned, but if you are, just getting PSA tests as often as every three months wouldn't be a bad thing.

     
    Old 03-13-2009, 06:39 AM   #25
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IADT3since2000 View Post
    You're welcome. When we are new to being concerned about prostate cancer, we all have a lot to learn. It's good that we can help each other.

    The only supplement that I know of that might mask cancer by lowering PSA artificially is saw palmetto. However, there are serious quality problems with so many brands of saw palmetto that PSA would be unlikely to be affected. I have never taken saw palmetto because the research is not impressive.

    I feel confident that several supplements are probably a big help in preventing or coping with prostate cancer , but none of the evidence is conclusive . That may be why your doctor is against them. On the other hand, many doctors I've become acquainted with are quite ignorant about nutrition and prostate cancer; they just aren't trained in it, and they don't spend time now learning about it , even though many studies on it are published each year . I posted a new thread about supplements starting back on March 6, 2008, which you could find in a search of this board. The title was "Nutrition and lifestyle tactics - books, resources and a quick summary."

    Hope this helps.

    Jim
    is burning during peeing common to bph and pc

     
    Old 03-13-2009, 09:27 AM   #26
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    is burning during peeing common to bph and pc
    Hi Eddie,

    Burning is surely often a symptom of prostatitis, which is a non-cancerous inflammation of the prostate. I don't strongly associate burning with bph and pc. Irritation, which includes burning, is sometimes a symptom of prostate cancer but infrequently, as I recall, but I hope one of our other participants will clarify that. Burning during peeing is not included in the American Urological Association's symptom survey that is commonly used in a urologist's workup.

    Of course, prostatitis often will affect the PSA score, and I believe also the "free PSA" score. I believe it does not affect the PCA3Plus score.

    Take care,

    Jim

     
    Old 03-13-2009, 05:33 PM   #27
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    is burning during peeing common to bph and pc
    You might want to try AZO Standard, an over-the-counter pill taken for a couple days to knock out urinary infection. The interesting side effect is that it turns your urine bright orange for the couple days you take this.

     
    Old 03-20-2009, 05:39 AM   #28
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    these studies have got me confused about wether to psa test or not

    Last edited by eddief1; 03-20-2009 at 05:40 AM.

     
    Old 03-20-2009, 11:40 AM   #29
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eddief1 View Post
    these studies have got me confused about wether to psa test or not
    Keep getting the test and track your results over time. There's absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

     
    Old 03-26-2009, 06:30 AM   #30
    eddief1
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    Re: psa numbers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daff View Post
    Keep getting the test and track your results over time. There's absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
    Hello Daff did you and idatt2000 both have proton beam and is ther a place
    in s.c. and n.c that does this

     
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