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    Old 04-01-2009, 03:17 PM   #1
    joann 66
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    how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

     
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    Old 04-02-2009, 11:12 AM   #2
    Thelma-Louise
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Your symptoms won't respond to prolonged treatment with antibiotics if they are due to tmj.

     
    Old 04-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #3
    bethsheba
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    Your symptoms won't respond to prolonged treatment with antibiotics if they are due to tmj.
    This statement is contrary to what I've read and to what some others with tmj have experienced. If the TMJ is caused by a bacterial infection (trauma, it can eat away at bone, muscles, nerves, and cartilage in the face/jaw area and elsewhere....if the infection is not stopped, surgery and splints will not help...the infection must be controlled if further damage is to be prevented. If antibiotics didn't help (and the trauma was do to an infection) it is possible the doctor didn't have the expertise/knowledge to prescribe the appropriate antibiotics, the correct dosage, for amount of time necessary to address the infection.

    If my doctor told me what you are telling us, I'd fire him/her immediately and seek out someone better versed in tmj and bacterial infections.

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-02-2009 at 12:21 PM.

     
    Old 04-02-2009, 11:35 AM   #4
    bethsheba
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    joann,

    A number of conditions can present with symptoms similar to sinus problems and to tmj...sometimes sinus infections and/or tmj are symptoms of something else that has gone wrong in the body...that is why many people don't respond to treatment for their sinuses or for their tmj or for their "whatever"..traditional treatments may not work if the real cause of the problem isn't addressed.

    Bethsheba

     
    Old 04-02-2009, 04:30 PM   #5
    Thelma-Louise
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    TMJ and TMD is not caused by a virus or bacteria - at least not to my knowledge - its a dysfuntion, be it due to a muscular imbalance, occlusal or bite problem or an issue with the tm joints or discs such as displacement. Left untreated tmj and tmd can cause physiological and degenerative changes to the jaw, joints and condyles such as osteo-arthritis, bone spurs, changes in shape or angualrity of the components of the jaw that allow it to function. A number of other medical and dental conditions can present symptoms similar to that of tmj (such as lyme disease or cervical problems or even taking certain prescribed medications) but that does not mean one is actually dealing with tmj. Even other joint conditions of the body are not the result of infection but more likely that of auto-immune diseases.

    Trauma or injury is not a bacteria and can not eat away at the bone - degenerative changes may result to the injured site when it can not function as it needs to - but antibiotics will not prevent the degeneration or cure the "trauma" - at most physiotherapy and the use of steroids or cortizone treatments - as well as eliminating the dysfuntion if possible, may be able to stop and prevent further degenerative changes. In certain instances, such as when a condyle changes in shape due to prolonged jaw disfunction - the appropriate treatment may encourage a return to normal appearance and functioning.

    I hope I din't come across to strong in my response as that was not my intent - it just seems though that there seems to be a lot of misconception and contradictions about tmj both among professionals and those that are dealing with it or symptoms akin to it proving once again that it really needs to be more formally addressed by drs and researchers and other formal organizations.

     
    Old 04-02-2009, 10:18 PM   #6
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    TMJ cannot be caused by bacteria, bethsheba.

    That was pretty harsh.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 06:28 AM   #7
    bethsheba
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madnmas View Post
    TMJ cannot be caused by bacteria, bethsheba.

    That was pretty harsh.
    Madnmas, You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say which is that TMJ CAN be caused by a bacterial infection! I am disagreeing with Thelma-Louise's comment below which suggests that TMJ can't be caused by a bacterial infection. I meant to say that if my doctor told me that TMJ couldn't be caused by a bacterial infection, I would see a different doctor...one who knew more about the causes of TMJ.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    Your symptoms won't respond to prolonged treatment with antibiotics if they are due to tmj.
    Madnmas, welcome to the boards!! Please don't let my post give you the wrong impressions here...friendly debates are healthy and it's people like you who help us draw the line, !

    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-03-2009 at 06:43 AM.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 06:38 AM   #8
    bethsheba
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    ....I hope I din't come across to strong in my response as that was not my intent - it just seems though that there seems to be a lot of misconception and contradictions about tmj both among professionals and those that are dealing with it or symptoms akin to it proving once again that it really needs to be more formally addressed by drs and researchers and other formal organizations.
    Thelma-Louise, I didn't take any offence...I apologize if I came across the wrong way. Yes, there is disagreement by the professionals and those dealing the condition about the causes/treatments/etc of tmj...

    But from what I've read, different kinds of bacteria can eat away at bone, muscle, cartilage, and nerves....have you heard about flesh eating bacteria?? Occasionally it is in the news....that might be one example of how a bacteria can cause visible damage to the body. I know of someone who almost lost his life because this bacteria ate away the skin, muscles, and bone on one side of his body. They gave him a 5 percent chance to live and he lived!! This isn't the kind of bacteria I've read about causing TMJ...I only mention this because if you have some knowledge of this bacteria, it may be easier to understand that it's possible for another kind of bacteria to cause TMJ.

    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-03-2009 at 03:38 PM.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 08:25 AM   #9
    Thelma-Louise
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    I understand your concern of having an underlying infection or bacteria - and yes such types of bacteria do exist - but if necrosis of the jaw which is an infection of the bone were the cause of tmj - and yes necrosis is indeed very serious as it is often difficult to diagnose even by oral surgeons sometimes and often requirers hospitalization, the use IV antibiotics and the surgical removal of the dead or infected bone and will deform the jaw and spread if left untreated (its kind of like gangrene of the bone) - but if tmj was indeed caused by this then most of us by now who have been suffering for years and years would have no jaw left or be dead - to be quite blunt.

    This is why though at the onset of symptoms one should make every effort to see all types of drs both medical and dental and eliminate all other possibilities for the cause of the symptoms - especially when there is lack of of definitive displacement of the joints or discs on film or images.

    I guess I took issue with it b/c I was denied medical benefits by an insurance carrier "due to lack of necrosis of the jaw" and had to argue and prove to them that necrosis or infection of the jaw is not unqequivocal evidence of tmj/tmd.

    Let's face it - if tmj was caused by a underlying bacteria - at this point all this controversy and trial and error with splints and various treatments would be moot and there would be a stampede to oral surgeons and hospitals to have it treated. And if one does have necrosis of the jaw and is experiencing tmj symtpoms (there would other symptoms of such an infection, btw) then the tmj symptoms would be secondary to the real cause.

    I do appreciate your attempt, however, of making others aware of this as one possibility to explore or look into.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #10
    bethsheba
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    .... but if tmj was indeed caused by this then most of us by now who have been suffering for years and years would have no jaw left or be dead - to be quite blunt.
    I respectfully disagree...it's more complicated than that.

    Quote:
    ...I guess I took issue with it b/c I was denied medical benefits by an insurance carrier "due to lack of necrosis of the jaw" and had to argue and prove to them that necrosis or infection of the jaw is not unqequivocal evidence of tmj/tmd.
    I am so very sorry your were denied medical benefits by your carrier...but this is not surprising, nor is it uncommon. Unfortunately, doctors egos/ignorance, politics, and insurance companys profit motives, and other hidden agendas all may interfere with getting a proper diagnosis and treatment. But just because benefits are denied, doctors say "t'aint so", doesn't mean a bacterial infection isn't at the root of the problem.

    Quote:
    Let's face it - if tmj was caused by a underlying bacteria - at this point all this controversy and trial and error with splints and various treatments would be moot and there would be a stampede to oral surgeons and hospitals to have it treated.
    Although there may be controversy, there is agreement among some...and oral surgeions and hospitals are not the ones agressively diagnosing and treating one kind of infection associated with TMJ.

    Quote:
    And if one does have necrosis of the jaw and is experiencing tmj symtpoms (there would other symptoms of such an infection, btw) then the tmj symptoms would be secondary to the real cause.
    If an infection is present, TMJ would be secondary...as far as there being other symptoms of an infection?? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on what kind of infection, and where it has spread in the body.

    [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2812630[/url]

    jojo’s post number 9 on
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=423929&highlight=tmj&pa ge=2[/url]

    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-03-2009 at 10:36 AM.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 11:58 AM   #11
    Thelma-Louise
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    I respect your opinion however you do continue to refer to lyme disease as the root cause of one's tmj which may be true (for some) but even the web site to which you refer to mentions that when Lyme antibodies are not present that more emphasis is placed on other symptoms such as the appearance of red rash or clusters (ECM lesions) and history of the patient. But you can not just jump to the conclusion that if lyme is responsible for ones TMJ symptoms and lyme is an infection, then tmj is an infection.

    Also JoAnn was specifically asking about differentiating tmj from a sinus or ear infection - most infections of the ear and sinuses do respond to antibiotics - as would lyme - although the type of antibiotic used to treat them and length of useage would be different. So if an antibiotic used over a prolonged period of time did positvely reduce or affect one's symptoms but the symptoms returned after the antibiotic was stopped then further investigation or testing would be warranted for something other than tmj.

    Last edited by Thelma-Louise; 04-03-2009 at 12:13 PM.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 03:14 PM   #12
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    It was not my intention to imply that Lyme or any other form of bacteria was the sole cause of TMJ...there's obviously other causes, known and unknown (and thus other treatments). But I do think that it is important that people get accurate information about possible causes so they can make their own informed choices.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    ... the web site to which you refer to mentions that when Lyme antibodies are not present that more emphasis is placed on other symptoms such as the appearance of red rash or clusters (ECM lesions) and history of the patient.
    I'm not sure you're understanding what is being said there...just because there are not antibodies present, doesn't mean there isn't a bacterial infection...that's why some specialists rely on symptoms, or what is called a clinical diagnosis. We don't have tests for every bacteria/spirochete/bug that is out there...thus a clinical diagnosis when nothing shows up on the "tests".

    Quote:
    ....But you can not just jump to the conclusion that if lyme is responsible for ones TMJ symptoms and lyme is an infection, then tmj is an infection.
    Again, I think you are misinterpeting what I am saying...

    Quote:
    ...if an antibiotic used over a prolonged period of time did positvely reduce or affect one's symptoms but the symptoms returned after the antibiotic was stopped then further investigation or testing would be warranted for something other than tmj.
    Not necessarily...again, it is far more complicated than that. If it was that easy, people wouldn't be posting on this board.

    Please don't misunderstand me here...all I'm saying is that is possible for a bacterial infection to cause TMJ. And if your doctors have explored other remedies and they don't work, perhaps one should seek out a doctor who is knowledgeable about bacterial infections, Lyme in particular.

    I firmly and strongly believe that people should be the decision makers when it comes to their own health...but in order to make good decisions, one needs accurate information. I'm simply making people aware of one more possible cause of TMJ for those who wish to explore all possibilities.

    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-03-2009 at 03:36 PM.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 04:04 PM   #13
    Thelma-Louise
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bethsheba View Post
    Please don't misunderstand me here...all I'm saying is that is possible for a bacterial infection to cause TMJ. .

    Bethsheba
    I don't think I am misunderstanding you. I may be taking what you say too literally however. But I think we can both agree to disagree on this issue -LOL.

     
    Old 04-03-2009, 04:45 PM   #14
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    Re: how do you know if it is sinus infection ear infection or tmj

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
    I don't think I am misunderstanding you. I may be taking what you say too literally however. But I think we can both agree to disagree on this issue -LOL.
    And we might just be saying the same thing except from different perspectives, LOL...but, yes, we can both agree to disagree....thank you so much for discussing your points of view with all of us! I, personally, appreciate your follow through with the issue!



    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 04-03-2009 at 04:47 PM.

     
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