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    Old 01-28-2010, 11:08 AM   #16
    yackedar
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Hi Ace,

    I will agree with you on Policosanol, as all of the major studies were carried out in Cuba using one variety of sugar cane.
    The Cuban findings have not been replicated, not just in the US, but also in European countries.
    I believe a few studies have been carried out on the Cuban cane in a couple of South American countries, having favourable results but not as significant as those carried out in Havana.

    PS: My wife tried it about three years ago and all her lipids 'went in the wrong direction'.

    Last edited by yackedar; 01-28-2010 at 11:17 AM.

     
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    Old 01-28-2010, 06:25 PM   #17
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Hi Ace and Yack,

    Thanks for all your information, very confusing, but nevertheless thankful for your input. I think what I am going to do is to continue to take the Inositol Hex and see what happens at my next blood test. I am expecting bad numbers because I am not taking Zocor anymore, but how bad, we will see. Before taking Zocor, all of my numbers were bad, so with taking this product we will see if maybe it helps a little. I will post back in a few months to let you know. Thanks again to both of you for your input and all of the rest of you that also posted.

    Wish me luck,
    Missy

    p.s. Forgot to ask, is it okay to cut this pill in half in order to get it down? These pills are huge!!!!!

    Last edited by missy222; 01-28-2010 at 06:29 PM. Reason: forgot to add a question

     
    Old 01-29-2010, 08:32 AM   #18
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by missy222 View Post
    Hi Ace and Yack,

    Thanks for all your information, very confusing, but nevertheless thankful for your input. I think what I am going to do is to continue to take the Inositol Hex and see what happens at my next blood test. I am expecting bad numbers because I am not taking Zocor anymore, but how bad, we will see. Before taking Zocor, all of my numbers were bad, so with taking this product we will see if maybe it helps a little. I will post back in a few months to let you know. Thanks again to both of you for your input and all of the rest of you that also posted.

    Wish me luck,
    Missy

    p.s. Forgot to ask, is it okay to cut this pill in half in order to get it down? These pills are huge!!!!!
    Yes, you can split the pill in half. At your next blood test, if your HDL is significantly higher and your triglycerides are lower, you will know Inositol is working for you. Niacin is known to raise HDL by 30 - 40% and lower triglycerides, by about the same. Total cholesterol and LDL are less effected, or show small improvements. Zocor is effective at lowering the LDL and Total (as you already know). You will probably see an increase here. If your HDL is the same or drops, than Inositol is definitely not working.

    P.S. Good luck with your next blood test...

     
    Old 01-29-2010, 11:32 AM   #19
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Missy,

    Go for IHN (inositol hexanicotinate) manufactured by Solgar. I know this product works in conjunction with fish oil, as it raised my wife's HDL from 1.4 mmol/L to 1.6 mmol/L. (54.18 mg/dl to 61.92 mg/dl)
    At the same time she was also taking 1000mg EPA/DHA fish oil. Whilst taking these two products alone, her TC and LDL dropped a little (@8%), but her Trigs dropped by @40%.

    Yack-e-Dar

    Last edited by yackedar; 01-29-2010 at 11:33 AM.

     
    Old 01-29-2010, 06:02 PM   #20
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    yackedar;

    Looks like your wife got 1 out of 2 right. Great results with the fish oil!

    If anything you said about inositol equaling slow release niacin was accurate, there would have been a pronounced effect on LDL lowering. Fact is, inositol releases its nicotinic acid so slowly, its not detectable in the serum. No serum levels, no lipid effect.

    <edited>

    Last edited by mod-anon; 01-29-2010 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Please read the posting rules

     
    Old 01-30-2010, 08:36 AM   #21
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polacekt View Post
    yackedar;

    Looks like your wife got 1 out of 2 right. Great results with the fish oil!

    If anything you said about inositol equaling slow release niacin was accurate, there would have been a pronounced effect on LDL lowering. Fact is, inositol releases its nicotinic acid so slowly, its not detectable in the serum. No serum levels, no lipid effect.

    <edited>
    Yackedar, can you list some references of published studies?

     
    Old 01-30-2010, 02:14 PM   #22
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Sure.

    What works on patient '1' does not mean that it will work patient '2' as my wife found out, along with many members of this board. Her's was an 8% reduction at 500mg. At 1500mg the results may have been more positive. But being cautious, if a little does not work......move on.
    It took three years to find the winning combination for the boss in our house.
    Her particular cholesterol reducing 'formula' works very well for her, but may not for you.

    Not allowed by board rules to point you to study sites, but here are a few scientists to check out. As I said, IHN has been around for 50+ years.

    1961 - Welsh and Eade
    1961 - Dorner and Fisher
    1975 - Sommer
    1983 - El-Enein, Hafez, Salem, Abdel.

    British Medical Journal (BMJ) also.

    Yack-e-Dar

    Last edited by yackedar; 01-30-2010 at 02:40 PM.

     
    Old 01-30-2010, 02:51 PM   #23
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Yack - That's why pure Niacin works more effectively than almost any cholesterol drug known. Almost everyone will realize dramatic changes at about 500 mg. a day for 30 days or more, especially in HDL cholesterol and not in select patients. This is not the case with Inositol in most research studies. Almost everyone gets the Niacin flush, this flush equates to a boost in circulation, liver saturation and better cholesterol numbers. With niacin you can always till if it's working because of the flush on your face and chest. If you don't get a flush you know your taking a placebo or a dummy pill. Inositol appears to be all placebo in most studies conducted in the U.S. Hence, the advisory warnings...

    Last edited by ACE28; 01-30-2010 at 02:52 PM.

     
    Old 01-30-2010, 07:10 PM   #24
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Ace,

    WHAT ADVISORY WARNINGS????

    Missy

     
    Old 01-31-2010, 03:43 AM   #25
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    I'll re-iterate that.

     
    Old 01-31-2010, 08:41 AM   #26
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    To cite one warning by the American heart Association and the NCE,
    the American Heart Association and the National Cholesterol Education Program both take the position that only prescription niacin should be used to treat dyslipidemias, and only under the management of a physician. Not Inositol and many over the counter products....
    Dr Kowalski has always stated that when one takes inositol hexanicotinate, no niacin whatsoever shows up in the blood. Many studies have shown the complete ineffectiveness of inositol hexanicotinate in lowering cholesterol.
    According to research done on Inositol, the label reads 500 mg of niacin and 150 mg of inositol. Sounds like you're getting niacin combined with inositol. But what you're really buying is inositol hexanicotinate, which has no effect on cholesterol.

    P.S. Take this information for whatever it's worth.....

     
    Old 01-31-2010, 09:03 AM   #27
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    OK Ace........I will........ and totally disregard any US IHN study results as they all appear to be contradictory to decades of European and Asian research.

    BTW, it is named inositol nicotinate outside the USA, but with the 'hex' representing the 6 molecules of B3, they should be the same in all but name.

    It's looking like our American cousins have developed an immunity to certain types of vitamins and drugs.

    Yack.

    Last edited by yackedar; 01-31-2010 at 09:47 AM.

     
    Old 01-31-2010, 11:42 AM   #28
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Probably the ingredients being used.... Most Policosanol products, probably the same. Keep in mind that MD's and pharmaceutical companies consider Niacin to be one of their own. This limits the quality of products being sold, to be highly inferior to true FDA tested prescription brands. Such as NIASPAN and NIACOR. Weak and aldulterated batches are probably rampant. If medical research states that INOSITOL HEX is junk, and you continue to buy it, the fault is the consumers. You cannot complain to the manufacturer that the pill is not working. NIACIN immediate release and Sustained Release is an exception, because the flush is clearly present, and over 500 research studies proves this. The batches have to be pretty exact.

     
    Old 02-08-2010, 05:56 PM   #29
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yackedar View Post
    Sure.

    What works on patient '1' does not mean that it will work patient '2' as my wife found out, along with many members of this board. Her's was an 8% reduction at 500mg. At 1500mg the results may have been more positive. But being cautious, if a little does not work......move on.
    It took three years to find the winning combination for the boss in our house.
    Her particular cholesterol reducing 'formula' works very well for her, but may not for you.

    Not allowed by board rules to point you to study sites, but here are a few scientists to check out. As I said, IHN has been around for 50+ years.

    1961 - Welsh and Eade
    1961 - Dorner and Fisher
    1975 - Sommer
    1983 - El-Enein, Hafez, Salem, Abdel.

    British Medical Journal (BMJ) also.

    Yack-e-Dar
    Yack e Dar, These are the same four sources listed by Wikipedia. Since you haven't read them, I'll tell you what I've learned so far. None are placebo-controlled trials. Only one, Dorner, is a positive lipid trial in humans. 16 patients, no control group (was there a diet change? excircise?, fish oil? ).

    1961 - Welsh and Eade - a case report of Raynaud's syndrome
    1975 - Sommer - a report on the effects of INH on fibrinolysis - not lipids.
    1983 - a study in Buscat rabbits.

    Most importantly, placebo-controlled clinical studies in people, show that INH does not work.
    Zilioto et al, 1977, Archives of Medical Science, Agusti etal, 1978, Rev Invest Clin. Most recently, Keenan, Joseph, 2007 ATVBR mtg abstracts.

    The reason it does not work is thus: human GI absorbtion varies widely, averaging ~70%. (Harthon - 1964). Once present in human serum, hydrolysis of the ester bonds, and subsequent release of free nicotinic acid take more than 48 hours - unlike rat and dog serum. (Harthon - 1979). Levels of free NA are too low in humans - .6 micromols/L after a single 1600mg oral dose. (Sommer - 1965) BTW, these last three are European studies - not US.

    Last edited by polacekt; 02-08-2010 at 05:57 PM. Reason: spelling

     
    Old 02-09-2010, 06:07 AM   #30
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    Re: Niacin complex to lower cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polacekt View Post
    Yack e Dar, These are the same four sources listed by Wikipedia. Since you haven't read them, I'll tell you what I've learned so far. None are placebo-controlled trials. Only one, Dorner, is a positive lipid trial in humans. 16 patients, no control group (was there a diet change? excircise?, fish oil? ).

    1961 - Welsh and Eade - a case report of Raynaud's syndrome
    1975 - Sommer - a report on the effects of INH on fibrinolysis - not lipids.
    1983 - a study in Buscat rabbits.

    Most importantly, placebo-controlled clinical studies in people, show that INH does not work.
    Zilioto et al, 1977, Archives of Medical Science, Agusti etal, 1978, Rev Invest Clin. Most recently, Keenan, Joseph, 2007 ATVBR mtg abstracts.

    The reason it does not work is thus: human GI absorbtion varies widely, averaging ~70%. (Harthon - 1964). Once present in human serum, hydrolysis of the ester bonds, and subsequent release of free nicotinic acid take more than 48 hours - unlike rat and dog serum. (Harthon - 1979). Levels of free NA are too low in humans - .6 micromols/L after a single 1600mg oral dose. (Sommer - 1965) BTW, these last three are European studies - not US.
    Thanks PolaceKt.. for clarifying the studies and the added information....

     
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