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    Old 08-14-2001, 01:18 PM   #61
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Also stumbled on to an article on the web. It seems to indicate that only 1 & 3% is available to the public. The place I ordered from indicated the HP product is 3%, but as I indicated above Perricone's company indicated it's 5%. Hopefully, this doesn't matter & we'll all have good results like Mickey. I can't wait for two months to pass so I can see my results. Here's the article:

    Dr. Nicholas Perricone is best known as the author of The Wrinkle Cure, a cutting-edge book on reversing skin aging. In the book, he announces, “After years of working with antioxidants, I knew I had finally found the ultimate wrinkle cure.” What is it? Topical lipoic acid in the right concentration. Why does it work so well? Because it's a superb anti-inflammatory.

    “Lipoic acid inhibits Nuclear Factor kappa B (NFkB) better than anything else,” Perricone stated. The ability to inhibit NFkB seems a key to anti-inflammatory action, since NFkB is a transcription factor that activates the production of inflammatory cytokines that initiate cellular destruction. And if inflammation plays a central part in skin aging, as Perricone believes, then an effective anti-inflammatory cream makes perfect sense.

    Lipoic acid has been found to significantly reduce fine lines and shallow wrinkles. This is far from sensational, since Retin-A, topical vitamin C (Perricone recommends the ascorbyl palmitate form for topical use), CoQ10 and various other antioxidants do the same thing. The surprising discovery made by Dr. Perricone was that lipoic acid can also help heal acne scars. It is generally believed that only aggressive procedures such as laser resurfacing can do anything about acne scars. Needless to say, compared to a laser peel, lipoic acid is much cheaper, not to mention non-traumatic.

    How does lipoic acid perform this feat? According to Perricone, lipoic acid activates a transcription factor known as AP-1, which leads to the production of enzymes called metalloproteinases. These enzymes digest the damaged collagen, thus helping erase wrinkles and even scars. At the same time, lipoic acid helps cells produce more energy in the mitochondria, thus making more energy available for healing. Finally, due to its anti-inflammatory effectiveness, lipoic acid makes it easier for patients to tolerate Retin-A. Both Retin-A and lipoic acid inhibit the inflammatory cytokine-induced destruction of normal collagen.

    Yet another benefit of topical lipoic acid is diminished puffiness around the eyes. This puffiness, or swelling, is technically called edema, and is one of the visible signs of inflammation (redness is another; since inflammation is pro-aging, beware of products that irritate your skin to the point of redness).

    “The effective range for topical lipoic acid is between 3% and 10%. We use mainly 5%. We sell this product to dermatologists,” Perricone explained. The bad part is that Perricone's products sold to the public typically contain only 1% lipoic acid, with 3% available, but for over $100 for a small amount. Fortunately there are compounding pharmacies. You may be surprised how many of them work closely with dermatologists. Many topical products, however, are available to the public without the need for a prescription. This is where having the right knowledge really pays.

    Dr. Perricone emphasized that his approach to skin rejuvenation goes far beyond topical anti-inflammatories. “Beauty is the look of health,” he said. Good looks serve as a terrific incentive for patients to eat a low-glycemic, anti-inflammatory diet (high in fish oil and flavonoids—instead of meat, think fish and seafood; instead of cake, think strawberries). Perricone also encourages patients to take supplements, exercise, practice meditation and improve their lifestyle in general.

    The greatest enemy of youthful skin is probably smoking. “There is a 15 to 20 year difference in appearance between smokers and nonsmokers,” Perricone asserted. Speaking of sun exposure, Perricone made the interesting point that we need some sun exposure—fifteen minutes a day is probably enough. He also noted that perhaps as much as 50% of skin damage is due to glycation (the damage to proteins caused by simple sugars such as glucose and fructose). The skin of people whose blood sugar is chronically high can look as old and wrinkled as the skin of smokers. While a low-glycemic diet that excludes refined carbohydrates is the main means to reducing glycation, Dr. Perricone noted that lipoic acid also helps reduce glycation.

    Our pursuit of the dazzling dermis has never been more relentless—or more expensive. The old saying, “After 40, you have the face you deserve” should be amended to, “After 40, you have the face you can afford.” Fortunately there are some topical antioxidant preparations that are both effective and affordable (at least by comparison with laser surfacing). The first breakthrough was Retin-A, a form of vitamin A. Then came the hydroxy acids (including salicylic acids). Hydroxy acids act not only as exfoliants, but also as antioxidants and anti-inflammatories. Then the power of topical vitamin C to increase collagen production was discovered. Now Dr. Perricone has publicized his discovery of the powerful rejuvenating effects of topical lipoic acid. No doubt more discoveries lie ahead. The future looks beautiful.

    Last changed: March 02, 2001

     
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    Old 08-14-2001, 01:27 PM   #62
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Justmeagain: Where did you find those study results for the alpha lipoic on acne scars? I've looked & looked on the web, but can't find it. Thanks!

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 01:37 PM   #63
    MICKEYM
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Justmeagain I have read that article also I am glad that you were able to find this and post it. Tina did you read the directions that came in your ala? Something that I posted here once I think is that on my scarred areas I applied the product slightly thicker than the rest of my face I am pretty sure that the instructions says to do this as well. I am wondering if the products that perricones company make available for other sites to sell is only 3% for the hp product and his company and dr offices are the only ones that have access to the 5% because it seems as if we are getting conflicting information about the concentration?

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 07:19 PM   #64
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Hi Mickey: The conflicting info is just weird! I wonder if there is some 5% version out there. I resent my question to Perricone's company. If I don't hear something in the next few days, I'll call & ask for the person who wrote me the e-mail. She seems to know what she is talking about. The woman I talked to today didn't really seem to.

    I read the instructions that came w/the HP when I first got it & I don't remember seeing anything in them about scarring (but I read them hastily). I do remember seeing something about using more on wrinkled areas, though. I can't find the instructions right now, but if I stumble on them again, I'll check it out.

    Do you by chance know where I can find that study that justmeagain was talking about?

    Thanks much, Tina

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 08:52 PM   #65
    justmeagain
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Hi Guys:

    The "study" results are actually on Perricone's site under the science / skin and aging.
    The journal and article names were given on the site, but I have not been able to locate a copy.

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 09:10 PM   #66
    MICKEYM
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Tina I think that it did say for wrinkles apply thinker coat or something like that but I also did it for my scarring the info that is sent says very little about scarring. Im not sure where I read that I will look for a web adress tonight.

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 09:19 PM   #67
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Skinrxclinic sells the product with 5%ALA & 5% glycolic acid. I got the product but haven't used it yet. It doesn't say what percent on the box so I can't be sure. But I dont think they would lie.

    <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bouncing.gif">
    <p>[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 08-15-2001).]

     
    Old 08-14-2001, 09:27 PM   #68
    MICKEYM
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Requlator that is also where I buy mine from I have ordered 3 bottles from them so far and they are the ones that told me that they were upping the prices sometime this week to $125/bottle.<p>[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 08-15-2001).]

     
    Old 08-15-2001, 03:47 PM   #69
    joginny
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    I just received my bottle of hp - I double checked with the company and they verified that it was 5%. question for you MickeyM, why are you going to mix in additional alpha lipioc acid? I thought you got good results with the hp. How are you going to mix it in and how much? Also, did you follow the instructions on using it everyother day for a week then once a day for the next week and then twice a day thereafter? or did you just use everyday?

     
    Old 08-15-2001, 04:19 PM   #70
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Justmeagin -- Thanks for pointing me to Perricone's site for the study. I found it.

    I got a reply to my e-mail to Perricone's company which specifically asked if the HP is 3 or 5%. Their response isn't helpful. Kinda bizarre that no one at the company seems to be able or willing to tell what the heck the % is, but as I said before, hopefully it doesn't matter. Here's their response:

    Hello,
    Dr. Perricone does have a higher potency of the Face Firming Activator. However you need to use the regular strength first before you can order the higher one. I hope that this information is helpful.
    Thank you,
    Robie-lyn

     
    Old 08-15-2001, 09:41 PM   #71
    MICKEYM
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Joginny I did get good results but I still have acne scarring most say that it isnt noticable but I say that it is especially when the light hits it just right but like I said b4 id say a 70% reduction in scarring and this for $110 not bad i'll say. I thought about adding ala to the hp becuase I am getting conflicting info in regards to what strength it actually is 3% of 5%. In the studies that he did (if I rember correctly) the concentration was 5%-10% I think there is a post like that somewhere on this topic anyways if what I used was 3% then maybe I can have really really good skin if I used one more bottle of 5%. I have only used 1 bottle so far I gave the other one away and I just got my 3rd bottle in the mail. I havent started using it yet and will probally wait a while longer I dont know if I will add ala to it or not the problem is how do I know how much to add to make 5%-10%. also I started using the product twice a day from day one I didnt have a bad reaction Tina or other new users how did you start using the product??

     
    Old 08-16-2001, 05:29 AM   #72
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Hey Mickey: All of this 3 or 5% info has been so confusing. I wrote Perricone's company again trying to get some clarification. I know all of us want to use whatever it was that gave such good results in his studies. Knock wood we'll eventually get an answer.

    I started the product on Monday. Am using it twice a day. So far I've had no reaction to it. No redness or anything, and I'm using it pretty thick on the scarred areas -- two to three pumps per application. I figure that I may not have felt the tingling nor have gotten any redness since I've been using Retin A Micro in the area for months.

     
    Old 08-17-2001, 09:54 AM   #73
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Mickey -- How soon into the two mo period that you used the first bottle of HP did you begin to notice positive results?

    Did you see Help's post about the Nlite? Do you know anything about that?

    Thanks, Tina

     
    Old 08-17-2001, 11:12 AM   #74
    MICKEYM
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Tina I would say about 4 or 5 weeks into the bottle I saw improvement. My skin got very rough it was almost like a scab covered my whole face (that is the only way I can think to describe it) and it didnt look as bad as it sounds it just felt weird. Once that peeled off is when the improvement started and I mean PEELED off. Sometimes I would take a dark towel like red or blue (so I could see the skin) I would soak the towel in warm to hot water and let it sit on my face for a few minutes then gently wipe away and the towel would be covered in skin. I only did this when my face was peeling so it did peel alot but no one could see it becsaue it pretty much soaked all off. I hope this helps it probally sounds kinda strange I just hate having skin peeling off when no one elses is. As for the nlite I would be interested if my scarring dosent completly go away I have very minimal scarring left but I dont want any (picky arent I) I figure that if I do get the nlite with the ammount of scarring that I have now I would probally only need one treatment so that is a plus the ala helped me minimize much of my scarring so if I ever did get a treatment like this I would only need one treatment ( i assume) and only part of my face. A while ago when I was looking into lasers they said that they would have to do my entire face twice there is no way they would tell me that now. As for the nlite one thing that is interesting is there is no downtime the co2 lasers they told me I would be out of work for 6 weeeks while I recovered. Before I even think about doing the nlite I am gonna use another bottle or 2 of the ala and if need be I will add extra ala. I say this because I had such good results the first time and it is very possible that it will get better. It seems that there are at least a few of you that are now using the hp ala (at least only a few are posting they are) I hope that you will post all your results good or bad and I am hoping they will be good because everyone has diferent skin types I would be interested in how all skin types do with the hp ala.

     
    Old 08-17-2001, 11:29 AM   #75
    Tina081168
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    Re: Acne scar treatment that works

    Hey Micki: Thanks very much for the info. One more ? if you don't mind. When did the peeling start? Right now after 5 days of use I have had no reaction to the HP, no peeling, no redness, nothing. As I said before, I've been using Retin A Micro & that does cause me to peel when I use too much so maybe my skin has just been conditioned to irritation & won't peel w/the HP.

    I got another response for what it is worth from Perricone's company. I guess the HP is 5% according to this.

    I wrote:

    "Hi:

    Sorry to bug you guys again, but I haven't received an answer despite
    several e-mails. Does the HP Face Firming Activator contain either 3% or 5%
    alpha lipoic acid? If it only contains 3%, how can I purchase the 5%
    version used by Dr. Perricone in his study on depressed acne scars?

    Thank you very much for your help, Tina"

    They replied:

    "It is considered a "physician only" product. You may initially try the
    normal potency and if you tolerate that product well, you may move onto the
    HP, which is a 5 times stronger formulation. If you haven't used the regular
    strength yet, than you cannot get the 5%. If you have already use the
    regular face firming activator than you can purchase it by calling
    [Perricone's company].
    Thank you,
    ROBIE-LYN"


    <p>[This message has been edited by Tina081168 (edited 08-17-2001).]

     
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