It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Addiction & Recovery Message Board

  • when does it end



  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 04-27-2004, 09:27 PM   #76
    rosietee
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Location: California
    Posts: 515
    rosietee HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Hey, Howard, I just finished an inpatient detox. They took me off c/t from 2-3 mg of klonopin/day in addition to my 20-30/day norco habit. gave me pheno barbital at first, then Neurontin. Neurontin didn't sit well w/ me, so now I"m on Topamax, as I previously have had one seizure which might have been linked to discontinuing xanax (though I was taking small amount and irregularly). Looked at Ashton's Manual and see what they did is considered barbaric elsewhere in the world. Am considering having md put me on valium taper--feel headed for more severe protracted w/d. Bad, bad stomach problems. anyway, sounds like you are doing well. Let me know if you have any thoughts on my case.

    thanks,
    rosie

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 04-28-2004, 04:16 AM   #77
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    <>

    No, tapering slow does not mean one will have no withdrawals when you come off completely. Most surely do and I`d be very surprised if I do not have them. But the landing should be much softer dropping from a very small dose, withdrawals less severe as the brain along the way has adjusted to accepting less and less of the drug. One typically feels the real effects of coming off for around 3 months. It is not uncommon to feel some level of the effects from time to time for a year or two as the brain fully adjusts back to it`s pre-benzo state. But, I strongly suspect that I will be functional, effective, and enjoying life during such time. Outcomes vary person to person so it is a wait and see thing. Look for the best, be prepared for any potholes in the road. Is the only way out. Only other option once hooked, keep taking the drugs, keep increasing and increasing doses digging a deeper hole, chasing relief. That is not going to happen here...
    so if iget off these with in 4 weeks am i still going to have w/ds i'm just scared now and my methadone w/d was a nightmare and i don't want another w/d in my life post back thanks howard kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 04-28-2004 at 04:17 AM.

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 01:56 PM   #78
    howard678
    Veteran
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: .
    Posts: 465
    howard678 HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Kay Leigh,

    I would say the chances are excellent that you will not suffer withdrawals from the Klonopin if you only use it 4 weeks. Maybe Jennita will come back through and give her opinion. I know your screen name is "no patience," but try and get some. This all is a process, often quite gradual. But in the end, we will be better, stronger, more compassionate human beings for it. :-)

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 02:11 PM   #79
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kay Leigh,

    I would say the chances are excellent that you will not suffer withdrawals from the Klonopin if you only use it 4 weeks. Maybe Jennita will come back through and give her opinion. I know your screen name is "no patience," but try and get some. This all is a process, often quite gradual. But in the end, we will be better, stronger, more compassionate human beings for it. :-)
    howard thanks for all your help i really appreciate it and keep up the good work at your end you're very strong willed and i hope one day to be med free and feeling normal w/o the help of meds thanks so much howard for taking the time to inform me and teach me the ins and outs benzos are a drug i was'nt familiar with and you've definitly opened my eyes thanks kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 04-28-2004 at 02:13 PM.

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 06:10 PM   #80
    howard678
    Veteran
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: .
    Posts: 465
    howard678 HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Kay Leigh,

    You are welcome. Any doc, nurse, or pharmacist that is well informed about addiction will tell you that benzodiazepines are easily the toughest withdrawals of all.

     
    Old 04-29-2004, 04:20 AM   #81
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    howard if i do end up going through these w/ds i'll be posting you alot but let's hope it doesnt come to that i saw my councelor and she wants me on this drug for atleast 1 more month and i try not taking it and i get panicky(did i spell that right) like the panic attacks are coming back i don't know what to do because one sh--ty w/d was enough any suggestions thanks howard

    Last edited by no patience; 04-30-2004 at 04:20 AM.

     
    Old 04-29-2004, 11:35 AM   #82
    Jennita
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2002
    Posts: 3,581
    Jennita HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kay Leigh,

    I would say the chances are excellent that you will not suffer withdrawals from the Klonopin if you only use it 4 weeks. Maybe Jennita will come back through and give her opinion. I know your screen name is "no patience," but try and get some. This all is a process, often quite gradual. But in the end, we will be better, stronger, more compassionate human beings for it. :-)
    Hey, no patience,

    Wish I could predict this all for you but when it comes to benzos, who knows...why, I've even heard of a few people not having withdrawals but boy that's pretty rare. The reason the panic came back after you tried not taking one is because you simply can't do that and expect to feel nothing because that's cold turkey which always causes that. But if you really do a super slow taper when the time comes to get off, you may only feel a little bad. You do have the advantage of not being on it for very long....which brings me to the question, why does your doctor want to extend that time? The recommended time on benzos according to the drug companies is usually only 2 weeks; 1 month should be plenty.

    I'm also not sure what your doctor is planning in the way of tapering; sometimes they think a certain length of time is enough but usually they only go by what amount of time will be enough to prevent anything serious like seizures....not to prevent other symptoms because they tend to not believe in the withdrawal syndrome much, as we know.

    I'd discuss the withdrawal schedule with the doctor; it can't usually be more than a 10% cut every 2 wks. If the doctor refuses that, maybe you should start it on your own since you will be getting an extra month of regular doses to help you taper slower. By the time the doctor approves the start of your taper, you may already be part the way there and will be able to stretch it out some.

     
    Old 04-29-2004, 12:22 PM   #83
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Hey, no patience,

    Wish I could predict this all for you but when it comes to benzos, who knows...why, I've even heard of a few people not having withdrawals but boy that's pretty rare. The reason the panic came back after you tried not taking one is because you simply can't do that and expect to feel nothing because that's cold turkey which always causes that. But if you really do a super slow taper when the time comes to get off, you may only feel a little bad. You do have the advantage of not being on it for very long....which brings me to the question, why does your doctor want to extend that time? The recommended time on benzos according to the drug companies is usually only 2 weeks; 1 month should be plenty.

    I'm also not sure what your doctor is planning in the way of tapering; sometimes they think a certain length of time is enough but usually they only go by what amount of time will be enough to prevent anything serious like seizures....not to prevent other symptoms because they tend to not believe in the withdrawal syndrome much, as we know.

    I'd discuss the withdrawal schedule with the doctor; it can't usually be more than a 10% cut every 2 wks. If the doctor refuses that, maybe you should start it on your own since you will be getting an extra month of regular doses to help you taper slower. By the time the doctor approves the start of your taper, you may already be part the way there and will be able to stretch it out some.
    hi jennita the doctor prescribed more because i.m still kind of having panicky situations like ending up in places i should'nt be like at the wrong doc or going to the wrong store and having a very hard time in social situations like even family situations some times i just can't bring my self to attend i'm just really having a hard time with coping with life after methadone it's like i'm learning certain things over again and all the stuff i avoided or delt with on methadone is hitting me like a ton of bricks and now i'm just so nervous that i may have to go through hell all over again thank you for replying i need all the info i can get so that way at my next prescribers meeting i can discuss these things with her and hopefully she won't sugar coat it i'm just so scared now i did'nt realize these meds were so bad i was nieve just like with methadone thank you jennita i'm glad i have you and howard for support it helps so much

    Last edited by no patience; 04-29-2004 at 12:25 PM.

     
    Old 04-29-2004, 01:04 PM   #84
    Jennita
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2002
    Posts: 3,581
    Jennita HB User
    Re: when does it end

    I'm so sorry for you. All I can tell you is this; it is entirely possible to become drug free and panic free one day. I remember in the early days of my experience that I was so exhausted from racing heart/panic that I could barely talk. I talked in a hushed tone. Sleep? Impossible...

    I went to get several opinions from doctors; not one really told me anything about the drugs except they shouldn't have caused any of this; that after 2 weeks, the drug is gone and so should any problems be. ONe time during my early withdrawal I went to a new doctor for a cold and mentioned my conditon at the time...in which I was only sleeping 14 hours a week. She told me it would never improve without pills of some sort because she had seen some of her patients try unsuccessfully....but then again, I wonder how long they tried....2 wks? SHe had never heard of benzo protracted syndrome. But by then, I finally had so I declined her offer of some AD that supposedly would help me sleep. She even offered some more Ativan.....I told her no way.

    Now, I don't need pills for anything. I certainly sleep many more hours now too.... and heart racing/panic??....all gone.

    Guess she was wrong now, wasn't she?

    So no matter how long it takes, you will be ok. It may take awhile. It may not. You have a really good chance your withdrawals will be mild or short-lived. I took the benzos much longer than you and developed tolerance....that means, basically, if you took your regular Klonopin right now and felt absolutely no relief. So I was much worse off than you and not informed intil well into it. No doctor informed me of the truth; I found out myself on those websites on benzo withdrawal. I feel very lucky and fortunate that others were willing to go to the trouble to help people like me. I guess sometimes I feel I owe a debt....this is why I periodically visit the boards to try and warn others. Some listen; some don't but I feel it's worth a shot.

    Don't let fear about all this get to you because although it is hard to go through, it's not permenant. If you had cancer, or some horrible disease without any cure, it would be a different story. You have something that does have a cure....unfortunately, it's not a magical bullet. It's simply time and preserverance. Take care of yourself, eat right, exercise, rest as much as you need.....and mostly don't be scared this is a life sentence because it isn't. Like Howard said, change your name to have patience!

     
    Old 04-29-2004, 05:43 PM   #85
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    I'm so sorry for you. All I can tell you is this; it is entirely possible to become drug free and panic free one day. I remember in the early days of my experience that I was so exhausted from racing heart/panic that I could barely talk. I talked in a hushed tone. Sleep? Impossible...

    I went to get several opinions from doctors; not one really told me anything about the drugs except they shouldn't have caused any of this; that after 2 weeks, the drug is gone and so should any problems be. ONe time during my early withdrawal I went to a new doctor for a cold and mentioned my conditon at the time...in which I was only sleeping 14 hours a week. She told me it would never improve without pills of some sort because she had seen some of her patients try unsuccessfully....but then again, I wonder how long they tried....2 wks? SHe had never heard of benzo protracted syndrome. But by then, I finally had so I declined her offer of some AD that supposedly would help me sleep. She even offered some more Ativan.....I told her no way.

    Now, I don't need pills for anything. I certainly sleep many more hours now too.... and heart racing/panic??....all gone.

    Guess she was wrong now, wasn't she?

    So no matter how long it takes, you will be ok. It may take awhile. It may not. You have a really good chance your withdrawals will be mild or short-lived. I took the benzos much longer than you and developed tolerance....that means, basically, if you took your regular Klonopin right now and felt absolutely no relief. So I was much worse off than you and not informed intil well into it. No doctor informed me of the truth; I found out myself on those websites on benzo withdrawal. I feel very lucky and fortunate that others were willing to go to the trouble to help people like me. I guess sometimes I feel I owe a debt....this is why I periodically visit the boards to try and warn others. Some listen; some don't but I feel it's worth a shot.

    Don't let fear about all this get to you because although it is hard to go through, it's not permenant. If you had cancer, or some horrible disease without any cure, it would be a different story. You have something that does have a cure....unfortunately, it's not a magical bullet. It's simply time and preserverance. Take care of yourself, eat right, exercise, rest as much as you need.....and mostly don't be scared this is a life sentence because it isn't. Like Howard said, change your name to have patience!
    thanks jennita that makes me feel so much better thanks for your story it helps considerably you've been so helpful and i can't thank you enough i'm glad you stay on the boards because so many people could use people like you and howard no sugar coating thanks again kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 04-29-2004 at 05:44 PM.

     
    Old 04-30-2004, 04:25 AM   #86
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    howard i read alot on the ashton manual last night very informative and scared the crap out of me i have a councelor meeting tuesday and i'm definitly bringing up the klonopin god i never realized benzos were so evil i know you and jennita have worned me but reading it in the aston manual really opened my eyes i thank tou and jennita both for all your help i read every w/d is different and if i do have them with the luck have it will be the worst anyone has ever had didn't see any thing from you last night hope your ok kelleigh

     
    Old 04-30-2004, 11:08 AM   #87
    Jennita
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2002
    Posts: 3,581
    Jennita HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by no patience
    howard i read alot on the ashton manual last night very informative and scared the crap out of me i have a councelor meeting tuesday and i'm definitly bringing up the klonopin god i never realized benzos were so evil i know you and jennita have worned me but reading it in the aston manual really opened my eyes i thank tou and jennita both for all your help i read every w/d is different and if i do have them with the luck have it will be the worst anyone has ever had didn't see any thing from you last night hope your ok kelleigh
    You are welcome but the best thanks you can give us is to get better, ok? I know it's scary but remember this is a temporary condition....may get a bit rough but it's still temporary nevertheless. You will win here if you are willing to do it.

    I remember being very scared. But then I felt better a bit. I realized then it is possible to improve. I improved at snails pace; a few times I wondered if I would be ok when I would have a setback. But then I started to improve again; more and more as time went on. Then, I got incredibly angry over what was done to me....this is turn made me more determined to get through it. I still get angry at times, but it sure helps me calm down to know when I have helped someone else who has been a victim of this.

    I've been fortunate too, that my husband travels and knows alot of people in his work so I've been able to help alot of people through him. He works for a labor union, and every once in awhile he runs across another victim of prescription pills and he tells them my story. One man in particular I was able to talk with on the phone.....

    He was a mess; he had been very well in his life, intil he needed hip surgery.... withdrawals from the amount of painkillers/benzos he was on in the hospital left him sleepless (2 hours a night of sleep) and anxious when he came home (panic attacks).

    And then his doctor, true to form, when this problem didn't go away in a week or two referred him to a psychiatrist who gave him the catch-all diagnoisis of clinical depression. This was hard for him to understand since he was always so upbeat; had a great family, loved his job, etc. But thinking he was to believe anyone with M.D. next to his name, he did take the Zoloft the psych prescribed for him.....which worked for a few days and then sleep troubles came back. I talked with him a long time, explaining he was surely not depressed and he simply went through drug withdrawals which do not end in a short time as commonly thought. I told him things I had learned from Ashton Manual, Dr. Ann Tracy and Dr. Peter Breggin websites. Also, I had my own story to go by.

    He seemed grateful; he weaned off the Zoloft slowly (he hadn't taken it long but I warned he still needed to taper for safety) and last we heard, he was feeling alot better, less panic and more sleep....

    So hang in there!!!! Do remember not to skip your pill or try a cold turkey as this will cause you considerable distress! Slow tapering is the way to go.

    Don't thank me.....get better....that's the best thanks for me. Let howard and I know how it all goes from time to time!

    Hey howard, hope you are doing well.

     
    Old 04-30-2004, 01:21 PM   #88
    no patience
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: massachusetts
    Posts: 859
    no patience HB User
    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    You are welcome but the best thanks you can give us is to get better, ok? I know it's scary but remember this is a temporary condition....may get a bit rough but it's still temporary nevertheless. You will win here if you are willing to do it.

    I remember being very scared. But then I felt better a bit. I realized then it is possible to improve. I improved at snails pace; a few times I wondered if I would be ok when I would have a setback. But then I started to improve again; more and more as time went on. Then, I got incredibly angry over what was done to me....this is turn made me more determined to get through it. I still get angry at times, but it sure helps me calm down to know when I have helped someone else who has been a victim of this.

    I've been fortunate too, that my husband travels and knows alot of people in his work so I've been able to help alot of people through him. He works for a labor union, and every once in awhile he runs across another victim of prescription pills and he tells them my story. One man in particular I was able to talk with on the phone.....

    He was a mess; he had been very well in his life, intil he needed hip surgery.... withdrawals from the amount of painkillers/benzos he was on in the hospital left him sleepless (2 hours a night of sleep) and anxious when he came home (panic attacks).

    And then his doctor, true to form, when this problem didn't go away in a week or two referred him to a psychiatrist who gave him the catch-all diagnoisis of clinical depression. This was hard for him to understand since he was always so upbeat; had a great family, loved his job, etc. But thinking he was to believe anyone with M.D. next to his name, he did take the Zoloft the psych prescribed for him.....which worked for a few days and then sleep troubles came back. I talked with him a long time, explaining he was surely not depressed and he simply went through drug withdrawals which do not end in a short time as commonly thought. I told him things I had learned from Ashton Manual, Dr. Ann Tracy and Dr. Peter Breggin websites. Also, I had my own story to go by.

    He seemed grateful; he weaned off the Zoloft slowly (he hadn't taken it long but I warned he still needed to taper for safety) and last we heard, he was feeling alot better, less panic and more sleep....

    So hang in there!!!! Do remember not to skip your pill or try a cold turkey as this will cause you considerable distress! Slow tapering is the way to go.

    Don't thank me.....get better....that's the best thanks for me. Let howard and I know how it all goes from time to time!

    Hey howard, hope you are doing well.
    jennita THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

     
    Old 04-30-2004, 06:18 PM   #89
    Annie45
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Posts: 148
    Annie45 HB User
    Re: when does it end


    Last edited by Annie45; 04-30-2004 at 06:30 PM. Reason: posted on wrong thread!

     
    Old 04-30-2004, 06:51 PM   #90
    howard678
    Veteran
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: .
    Posts: 465
    howard678 HB User
    Re: when does it end

    <
    Wish I could predict this all for you but when it comes to benzos, who knows...why, I've even heard of a few people not having withdrawals but boy that's pretty rare. The reason the panic came back after you tried not taking one is because you simply can't do that and expect to feel nothing because that's cold turkey which always causes that. But if you really do a super slow taper when the time comes to get off, you may only feel a little bad. You do have the advantage of not being on it for very long....which brings me to the question, why does your doctor want to extend that time? The recommended time on benzos according to the drug companies is usually only 2 weeks; 1 month should be plenty.>> Jennita

    I am one more case you have heard of that quit with no withdrawals, 8 months, .5 mgs of Xanax = the same with Klonopin, ran out of pills, was off 3 months with no problems at all. I just did not want to bother going to the doc to get more. Was using Benadryl for sleep but the sleep problems pre-dated the benzos. Got the typical winter flu, went in for some anti-biotics and decided to ask for some Xanax. Got it. Four months later quit again for 10 days, only to save pills in case I needed extras on vacation, do not sleep well in strange beds. Again, no withdrawals, and with the very short half-life of Xanax, chances are excellent that if I was going to feel something I would have within 10 days. I just had no interest in quitting for good as I was ignorant of the potential withdrawal syndromes, severity, longevity. One would have a ways to go to sell me on the idea that my case is "pretty rare." I would also have difficulty with the idea that cases where people that stop in 2 to 4 weeks with no problems, which is the recommended use time frame in the U.S. & the U.K., is in any way rare. What I would think would be rare is your story about the man that had surgery, used benzos and opiates in that setting, and came out addicted. But I do not know how long he was in the hospital on the drugs... I am aware of no research to illustrate that benzos create anything like instant addiction in even the majority that take them. A quote from Breggin would not surprise me, but actually about nothing would. This man is obviously a crusader...

    If Kay Leigh comes off Klonopin in a month and still has panic attacks then these episodes cannot be fairly attributed to benzos as the condition pre-existed. Tapering is a pain in the butt and expensive if you do not have good insurance, cutting pills, carrying them around, monthly doctor visits. There is no point in this if it is not necessary. And her panic problem, just as like my sleep problem, will have to be addressed. Benzos did not cause these in our cases, and I do not believe they magically go away when ceasing the drugs unless other therapies are employed in the interim. Why? Because it makes no sense. Plus, if she embarks on one of these one year or so tapers that are so often recommended she could become addicted in the process while at the present time she is not.

    Last edited by howard678; 04-30-2004 at 08:22 PM.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Lupus and blood pressure spikes when sleeping. Sunsetnan Lupus 121 07-26-2010 07:21 AM
    I notice when I look down at lower stomach the right side sticks out more than left marionr26 General Health 0 04-18-2010 09:05 PM
    Allowing Ex in daughter's life when he refuses to help GrayCourt Relationship Health 3 04-01-2010 02:31 PM
    just when i thought i can control this!!!! deedeehurtn Bipolar Disorder 1098 05-09-2007 06:40 PM
    What to do when child isn't yours? motormouthmomma Autism Spectrum 6 04-20-2005 11:31 AM
    Follow up to my post about my husband making mean remarks when I'm DRIVING 72Lena Relationship Health 11 04-02-2005 06:33 PM
    How does a person know when it's over and just not bother trying? Bambi27 Relationship Health 54 04-06-2004 09:19 AM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is On
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:43 AM.





    2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!