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  • Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

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    Old 06-27-2011, 05:58 AM   #1
    mahoney67
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    Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    I've posted recently that I have a herniation at C6-C7 that is compressing my spinal cord on the right side. I've had the usual symptoms... pain in neck, pain radiating down right arm, numbness/tingling in right hand/arm..... Yesterday I woke up with numbness in two or three of my right toes. The pinky toe and the one or two toes in from that. It lasted all day. It seems to be resolved today. Could that be related to my neck issue? Or could it just be a random coincidence.

    I'm seeing my doctor on Friday, but just wondering if anyone experienced this kind of symptom with a cervical spine issue.

     
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    Old 06-27-2011, 08:13 AM   #2
    vmax21j
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Yes anything below the effected level can become symptomatic. I am 5 days post op of a very large cervical surgery for cord compression. toe numbness was one of my symptoms that got me to the doctor, also i had immediate relief after surgery.

    good luck

     
    Old 06-27-2011, 08:54 PM   #3
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Sure, the cervical problem can affect your toes. It just means that it's the spinal cord itself that has the problem. The arm trouble could be caused either by a spinal cord problem or by osteophytes compressing the roots of the peripheral nerves (radiculopathy).

    If you end up getting an ACDF to replace that herniated disk, the surgeon can clear out the foraminal opening while he's at it just in case radiculopathy is part of the problem.

    Last edited by WebDozer; 06-27-2011 at 08:54 PM.

     
    Old 06-28-2011, 06:06 AM   #4
    jennybyc
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Toe numbness was one of my first symptoms and unfortunately, I still have it after surgery. It was left for too long and the damage was permanent.

    Tell your doc...that is an important symptom of cord compression.

    Jenny(fused C3 to T1)

     
    Old 06-28-2011, 08:55 AM   #5
    mahoney67
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Thank you all for your responses. I was really hoping to avoid this surgery, but there are so many little things I'm noticing.... the toe thing..... I'm not having bladder issues, but it seems I'm noticing now that when I'm getting the signal that I have to go, its at the point where I really have to go and get there quickly.....

    Thank you again.

     
    Old 06-28-2011, 09:28 AM   #6
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    how were you injured?

     
    Old 06-28-2011, 05:13 PM   #7
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    I had that same issue, Mahoney. And it can spread to the bowel too. It's like...gotta go......NOW!!!!! Beware of no sensation and you suddenly go without notice.....that is real bad and may not reverse.

    Who are you seeing in CT? I'm up in the northwest hills and travel all the way to Boston so I'm always looking for someone good to follow me in state. I'm on Medicare and if you can get an in-state supplement, it always much cheaper than the very expensive...cover you anywhere you go supplement.

    Jenny

     
    Old 06-28-2011, 06:13 PM   #8
    mahoney67
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Jenny, Am I allowed to say who I'm seeing? I saw two surgeons already. One in Norwich. He said he would recommend a posterior foraminotomy, but wanted me to try ESIs first. A second guy in Branford/New Haven wanted to do an ACDF. Now I'll be seeing an OS in Hartford on Friday. This is the guy I really wanted to see. Originally I couldn't get in until late August. I'm so happy for this appointment. I'll have to tell him about the bladder thing and the toes. How long did you wait with your symptoms before your surgery? If I have surgery in August it will be about 16 weeks from first symptoms.

    Nochange - I didn't really get injured. I think I had three herniated disks in my neck that were just slightly herniated. Then I upped weight training and carried my daughter on my back up a sand dune. I didn't feel injured, but woke up in April with pain in my neck and upper right back.... that's how it started.

     
    Old 06-29-2011, 09:01 AM   #9
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    hi mahoney, sorry i had not gotten back to you sooner, but was off the radar there for a bit and could not respond. so toe numbess now too on top of everything else? are you making certain to journal alll of the many different symptoms you have felt and are now feeling along the way too? it IS rather critical for the new doc you will be seeing to know about every single feeling, loss or possible "perceptions' of things that may at times kind of feel like 'something' is actually "happening TO" your body at any given area? these are just VERY bizarre to 'feel". i had and still have this type of crap pop in from time to time. but when i was pre op cord surgery i kept getting this "feeling/perception(it felt VERY real like it was happening TO me?) happening to right under my shoulder blade with a very very profound type of "prying/torqueing' sensation? it felt exactly like someone was trying to actually pry off my shoulderblade under my R? very sick and constant too til my cavernoma was removed from my cord.

    once the actual cord itself becomes as impacted as yours just is, alot of really insane things can happen anywhere below the level of injury or impact. this DOES seriously sound like your level of compression is really becomming much more impactful(either deeper or more to one side, but still 'against" the cord) and progressing/shifting/changing in some way shape or form. this can also be caused by reoccuring inflammation, thats just alot more 'there' vs before? are you back onto the neurontin again? if not, it would probably be a good idea to get back onto it.

    we have within our cords what are called 'spinal tracts? there are 20 something of them that run like many long cables inside a bigger cable(the cord). these are what actually govern body responses or carry the signals(from nerves to cord to brain and back? or the opposite from the brain.) to very specific areas on up and back from the brain that make things IN our bodies simply 'work' the way they should. each and every tract also runs to a very specific area of the high function areas of our brains. anytime the impact to the cord becomes very impactful, it can also very much, depending strictly upon where and what part/tract is being overly impinged or compressed, also can create very deranged or "scewed" signals or stop the signals completely too, but that 'complete' is pretty rare. but this is kind of part of why you are feeling what you are more downward in your toes now? there is also sensory and motor nerves that DO run thru the cord itself as well as the actual nerves that come out of the cord at every level(spinal nerves).

    when my surgery took place i lost the nerve that went to my feet as in the motor, but FROM the INSIDE of the cord and not the actual spinal nerve? it gets pretty innervated from different sources in many ways inside that cord itself(tracts,nerves, upper motor neuroms lower motor neurons, gray matter/white matter). but as for the tracts? my whats called the spinothalamic tract that of course runs to the thalamus(governs mostly pain and temp) was heavily damaged along with my spinocerebeller tract that runs to my cerebellum. the cerebellar is what governs our gait, balance proprioperception(this is the ability to simply still know where any of your extremities are when your eyes are shut, or as they say, 'in relation to space')along with certain aspects to the eyes as well as a few other things. i lost proprio to my legs only when i close my eys, esp in bed when trying to go to sleep. once my eyes shut, i seriously do not know how my legs are as in the posistion, until i move them and touch like the sheets or something? very crazy. but they are fine when i am up and walking around. but it did affect all of what i mentioned above here too with 'just' that cerebellar tract having suffered real damage. and that spinothlamic is where your pain pathway runs thru so my pain signals in certain areas now are very 'deranged". that was the word my NS used to describe how my pain was now going to be interpretted there post op 'deranged pain and pain signals' and boy was he right.

    these are just examples of what the tracts do so you can understand more about what potential tracts given the area of impact are in your cord. depending upon your actual symptoms that you are keeping track of will help alot once the surgeon sees you and tests certain areas for your responses along with what you tell him? he will know just how better impacted certain areas of your cord may be if there are specific things in areas that are feeling different in you or are impacted, esp when the actual spinal cord is THAT involved like yours is. i did not have a clue really just how the cord actually just 'worked' at all pre op, but i sure as heck had to find out post op when all kinds of insane things just started occuring, or were lost as well. but my situation was caused by a vascular glob i was born with IN my spinal cord that had to come out becasue it was bleeding and that scalpel, thankfully your 'impact" is stemming from the outside in.

    if you have not yet done so, make sure to write down any and all good questions you also need or want answers to too for that appt. trying to actually remember everything you WANTED to ask when you are there and being told things, it can cause you to not recall the really wanted and need stuff to be asked. been there done THAT one. and also make certain to have the CD or hardfilms with you too, that IS critical for him to see tomake HIS impression/interpretation of how HE sees things. a mere radiologists report,in many cases alot of surg3eons will not even bother to look at since the surgeons just already 'know' where and what to look for sooo much more than any rad could do. then you will get HIS much more informed/experienced opinion too.

    i wish you lots of luck on the appt friday. hopefully he will be able to tell you much more esp about that c 6-7 area and how impacted he feels it is. and tell him EVERYTHING that has happened or changed for you, even the "smaller stuff" can mean something much more than one would think. and of course that is what that journaling is for, so you also recall the small stuff that you felt at all? please DO keep ua posted hon. marcia
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    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 06-29-2011, 11:50 AM   #10
    mahoney67
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Thanks for responding Marcia!

    There is so much I don't know about what's going on inside. Yes - I have been keeping track of everything, and even created a little calendar of the doctor's I've seen, meds prescribed, ESIs, etc.... hopefully that timeline will help too. I did restart my neurontin, several days ago now.... late last week maybe? 1 tab 3 times a day. The pins and needles and pain in my arm continue, so I upped it to 2 late yesterday. Will the neurontin help the numbness/tingling? or only the pain?

    The pain in my neck is really bothering me too. I've read that ACDF might not help the neck pain? Is this true? It seems like it should though... since that bad disc will be removed... I'll keep you all posted as to what the surgeon says. Thanks!

     
    Old 06-30-2011, 08:11 AM   #11
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    just another lil FYI when it comes to the neurontin? i don't know if you did this before you upped it, but you ALWAYS need to have this done BY the Rxing docs orders. its just a slower taper is better, and with this type of med too, the doc really does need to be the one to decide to up it. it "usually" is NOT a huge issue to do, but just always make sure to call that doc and ask before upping any doses actually on any meds unless it states otherwise on the bottles instructions. i would "think" he would agree with what you did, but DO make certain he knows about it, esp since this med, once you have been on it for awhile and going up on doses/mgs, you do NOT want to suddenly find yourself without ANY doses left when you DO at that point, need to be taking it very regularly since the brain does get used to it. thats the reason for the tapers up and off of it i mentioned before. just ALWAYS check before.

    it may or may not 'always' help with pain. it kind of depends more upon the real underlying generator OF the specific type of pain. what neurontin actually does for nerves by calming them down is why this was originally created for epilepsy patients too. it calms down the "over firing/misfiring" of the nerve synapses within the brain that causes siezure activity. thats why they i guess thought originally it might also help with pain that is also generated by some inflammatory nerve signals as well, and it does for some. tho it is considered as an 'off label use', if it works, it works ya know?

    i was on it too back early on when i had my herniated c 6-7 too. i got up to around 3200 mgs at one point and still never ever really felt like it worked for MY radiculopathic pain. but different meds work differently on certain people and how the nerves are actually even involved at particular points too. but since you DID actually have a good response originally, it is more than likely probably helping somewhat? you just may need a good raise in the dosage when you see that doc tomorrow. i had like three different docs all raising up this med on me(over like three years) anytime my pain got worse. it was stupid really, but thats what they do even tho it was NOT actually doing anything for me. there ARE also other anti S type meds other than neurontin too that can potentially help as well if this does decide to stop working on you anymore. but i would try and stay with this since as i said, it actually 'connected' with your pain at all?

    whether or not an actual surgery of any type will actually help with pain really DOES involve so many different factors. in the c spine case with ACDF, it can either totally take away your pain, or 'some' of it, but in your particular case, if they do all that really IS needed up there esp cleaing ANY areas where your nerves are being impacted or impinged, it should relieve the pain. and of course just getting that real compression OFF that cord before a condition called myelomalacia can set in over time and pressure on neural tissue. it can sort of 'kill off" certain areas of very direct(usually the smaller the area pressing into the cord is more impactful than a larger more spread out type of compression would be)impact within or on the cord levels if the pressure is just THAT hard or very directly INTO an area.

    but back to nerves, its usually the longer you wait to unimpinge ANY nerve pretty much anywhere within the body, the pain CAN 'imprint itself' upon that particular nerve(neuropathic pain vs what you have now as radiculopathic), or losses of sensory that one had pre op may not come back either. it all depends upon how compressed or even closed off any given nerve is and how it may heal as well. as an example, my hubby had a herniated c 5-6 and a severely stenosed c 6 nerve that was making the entire forefinger numb and horrid radiculo pain? after he had his ACDF done, the horrid pain ALL went away(thank god), but he still has a never regained sensory finger TIP only left behind that has not come back in the 15 years or so he had it done? but at least that pain went, god it was awful to watch him suffer like that. but work made him wait way too long. but what you have going on in your lower c spine esp NEEDS to be relieved since your symptoms just ARE appearing to progress into more 'bodywide" than just the like upper torso level now?

    once you see that surgeon tomorrow, he will be able to at least give you his overall opinion on what HE feels really needs to be done with that c spine as a whole, since you DO have another area of cord impact too as i recall? soo, now you just see what he thinks and go from there for now. but i can tell you, if my cord were that distorted to what you are now feeling from it, i would go ahead and get that pressure relieved esp that c 6-7 as soon as possible. living with spinal cord damage is NOT fun at all. what he will decide as to what needs to be done really is based more upon what IS really truely being impacted and how much. if any real tracts are being impacted, along with just the overall level of the herniation there too, and IT'S impact alone(nerve and cord), i am sure he would want to go in and do the ACDF. this IS of course only my lil opinion here.

    the one really important question i would ask him tho, if this IS going to be done? ask him if he will be using whats called "intraoperative monitoring" on you during the surgery. this just IS the very best and safest way to actually do a surgery when the cord is being decompressed or just even 'involved' at all during a surgery. they just place little electrodes on very key places(arms legs mostly) on your body before the surgery that will monitor your overall possible motor and sensory responses during the surgery so the surgeon simply knows, before they 'do' anything that may actually cause further damage, the monitor screen that the trodes are connected to will tell him that whatever approach he is using, he needs to change BEFORE any real damage gets done to YOUR cord or nerves. this is usually done by a 'neurophysiatrist'(these types of docs DO KNOW about nerve and muscle and what is or is not 'normal with them too) whos ONLY job is to keep an eye on that screen and you during the surgery. this is kind of like an early warning system for the surgeon. and as i said, i can really prevent damage before it could happen. if the surgeon tests an area before they actually go to do anything,and that screen shows anything abnormal, they just try and do things from a different angle, they also DO do a baseline check of ALL of your sensory and motor responses BEFORE that surgery begins so they WILL know if anything as far as your overall nerve flows have been relieved and gotten better or something else may have changed at all. just DO ask him if the surgery is going to take place hon, it really is a good thing to have goin on while you are in the OR with what they would be doing.

    good luck with the appt mahoney. hopefully this can be taken care of soon and with no damage done or left behind. but DO ask questions and make certain to write them down in a notebook and also to write down answers too, lol (i forgot sometimes). it may not hurt to try and bring someone else with you for that consult/eval too if possible. sometimes when we are just discussing really critical things with surgeons, we can tend to get hung up on certain things and not always really 'hear' everything they are telling us when we are by ourselves? i ALWAYS bring at least my hubby or my mom, or both when i had to have my cord surgery consults. let us know how things go hon. take care, marcia
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    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 06-30-2011, 06:29 PM   #12
    mahoney67
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Thanks again Marcia.

    Yes, my doctor told me to "play around" with my neurontin dose... he wants me to take anywhere from 100 mg 3 times a day, to 300 mg 3 times a day. It doesn't seem to be connecting much with my pain anymore, AND I've had some extreme fatigue today, which I am attributing to the higher neurontin.... I don't know... I hate medication and feel like a junkie lately. Looking forward to my appointment tomorrow. I keep thinking someone will have the magic answer to remove me from this situation.

    I'll have to ask him about the "intraoperative monitoring", if we get that far.... and yes, I would bring my husband up for a consult if I really decide to go with surgery. Thanks again. I'll fill you in tomorrow night!

     
    Old 07-01-2011, 08:34 AM   #13
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    well at least you did have permission to "play" with the doses. but he really should have told you about the ways to go on and off this stuff ya know(just always read thru the Rxing lit, or ask the pharm when going onto any med you have never been on before esp)? it could possibly be you had some changes up there and things that were being compressed are now not AS bad(could actually feel MORE pain since you are 'feeling more in that type of instance) or got worse, as to why the neurontin is not seeming to work as well. but you were also, as i recall also on like medrol or some other type of heavy duty steriod based med before too the last time you were starting the neurontin, back when you HAD felt some relief?

    once that steroid wears off, kind of like with the ESIs too, you can feel kind of a rebounding of pain since it simply is not being kept from inflamming anymore. some people can have days or weeks or months of relief from using the steriods in the various forms, then others may not get ANY real relief, or very short term depending on how it 'worked' on them specifically.

    neurontin for me was one med i never got relief from, but also never had one single side effect from either. it felt like i was taking a vitamin or something over the two and a half years i was even being tapered up on it. i kept wondering, just becasue i did not 'feel' like anything good OR bad from that med, that it was some type of "non med' formulation they just give to people so they 'think" they are getting 'something" for their pain, seriously. i just expected to feel some side effects from it. but other anti S meds i have taken like gabitril, which is a more 'purer form of GABA that is in neurontin as well? that one totally made me want to just sleep, always. it never went away no matter how low we went with like my morning dose even, or a pretty long time on it either. just made me soo flippin tired. so what you are feeling as fatigue, can totally be from the raise you just did. sometimes it just takes like a week or so for the brain to get used to the raise, then it goes away. ya just gotta kind of keep in mind exactly what these types of anti S meds even 'do' for people with siezures too by calming down over firing nerves, so fatigue just could be possible depending mostly upon overall mgs you are on.

    i was kind of assuming that this particular appt WAS a consult eval? i am sure he will let you know what his overall opinion actually is while there. i just hope things either go okay or went okay since i do not know what time of day your appt is/was. no one ever WANTS to have to be on any of these meds and go thru all that is just a real need to try and live a normal life either. but if they CAN 'do" something to help our pain or make us more 'able' and feeling usefull, well, it is that lil trade off we have to live with. hopefully in your case, once they can get in there and just do whats needed, you wont have to be on anything after your poat op period of healing is done. i hope it went well. and DO let us know how things went with the doc. is this a neurosurgeon or what exactly? i guess i never asked you that. marcia
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    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 07-01-2011, 06:48 PM   #14
    mahoney67
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    So, I went for my appointment today. In a nutshell, he looked at my MRI, did an exam and the first thing he told me is why I'm in this predicament at 39, and with no obvious injury. I have a problem where my connective tissue is unusually flexible, therefore it's not providing the support my bones need.


    We talked about what I have tried to date for my cervical spine, and he suggested I give at home traction a try for two solid weeks. Looking at my MRI he said if i end up going the surgery route - C6-C7 would be the disc to fix. The one above immediately above it isn't great, but it doesn't warrant surgery, and the one above that is bulging the tiniest bit. He said if I want to address my neck and arm issues he would do an ACDF. If my arm pain/weakness is my only issue, a posterior foraminotomy. He cautioned me that the ACDF could put pressure on the levels above and there is a chance that we could be fixing C5-C6 down the line. I appreciated his honesty.

    I'm hoping this traction gives me relief. I did it tonight.

    Oh, and I asked him if I could ever run again. Before this whole thing started, I definied myself as a "runner", albeit a slow one. He said that given this issue with my connective tissue; if he were me, he would never run again. So, I guess it's good to know that whatever I decide, running is probably out of the question. Until today, I had been thinking that running again might be an option after a surgery. At least I am clear on something at this point.

     
    Old 07-01-2011, 06:53 PM   #15
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    Re: Can cervical spine issue cause toe numbness?

    Did you ask him if he would do the ACDF and a foraminotomy at the same time? Clearly, it wouldn't be a posterior foraminotomy, but I was told by a surgeon that it was easy to do foraminotomies from in front during an ACDF.

     
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