It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Spinal Cord Disorders Message Board

  • Spinal Cord Meningioma

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 11-28-2011, 06:53 AM   #1
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Has anyone here experienced reflex bowel due to poor motor neuron control? I have a small T12 meningioma. Intradural, extramedullary if I remember right. I do believe it's within the dura sheath, not totally against cord. I've skipped two annual MRI's and would almost rather die than see another Dr. I'm guessing I would have more symptoms or more serious symptoms if the little dragon has grown but I still wonder sometimes.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 11-28-2011, 10:55 AM   #2
    WebDozer
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2011
    Location: So Cal
    Posts: 1,379
    WebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    With all due respect, you should probably be looking for SECOND opinions here, that is, AFTER you've already heard from the docs. Believe me, I can sympathize with anyone who's sick of doctor visits and all they entail, but being sick of them is not sufficient reason to avoid them, I'm afraid.

     
    Old 11-29-2011, 10:10 PM   #3
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Thanks WebDozer but I'm not sure what you mean by 'after I hear from the Docs' as I dont have any pending appts. I procrastinate appts and then procrastinate the discussion, and so the issues continue. I guess I'm just wondering what exactly constitutes bowel/bladder issues (besides incontinence) when the cord is involved.

     
    Old 11-30-2011, 07:14 AM   #4
    WebDozer
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2011
    Location: So Cal
    Posts: 1,379
    WebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    OK, "after your hear from the docs" is a slightly indirect way of saying "talk to docs about this before you talk to us". I don't think you should use this board as part of your procrastination. My apologies if I have misinterpreted what you're saying.

    As for reflex bowel, what I read is that it's from injury ABOVE T-12, but I guess your meningioma is borderline in that respect and, as you say, it may have spread.

     
    Old 11-30-2011, 10:35 PM   #5
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Yeh, I don't think you've misinterpreted what I was saying and 'my' apologies for posting something you feel is inappropriate. I've violated no terms and I really don't understand why you feel I shouldn't post, until.....

    Last I knew this was a support board. Despite several appts of planning to bring this up I lost the nerve and didn't. I thought if anyone chimed in with similar issues I might reconsider, and try again. I thought, 'discussing it on the board will make it easier when I see the dr' but thanks for clarifying otherwise.

     
    Old 12-01-2011, 07:11 AM   #6
    WebDozer
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2011
    Location: So Cal
    Posts: 1,379
    WebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB UserWebDozer HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    <<Last I knew this was a support board.>>

    I strongly support your seeing a doctor. If one of the many people here who know better than I do decide to support you in other ways then I will read and hopefully learn from it...

     
    Old 12-01-2011, 08:56 PM   #7
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    You should support my choice not to see a dr or simply keep your feelings to yourself.

    If anyone has input: I'm still wondering what constitutes bowel/bladder concerns (besides incontinence) when the cord is involved. Reflex bowel is also up for discussion.

     
    Old 12-02-2011, 10:07 AM   #8
    feelbad
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 10,122
    feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    hi K. before i can give you some answers here just based on some of the things you said, i kinda need some info from you. have you been actually TOLD that you HAVE a reflex bowel, also called 'upper motor neuron bowel" too? or is this something you are trying to find out IF you have? if your upper motor neurons are even being impacted in ANY way you would almost always also have some level of actual 'hyper reflexia too? you CAN test yourself for hyper reflexia by taking a butter knife and using that heavier end, try tapping that area right below your knee caps, and do it on BOTH legs. if your UMNs are involved/impacted you would have a much 'brisker' type of reflex vs the more 'subtle bounce out' that is much less profound? try doing this and keep tapping UNTIL you can actually find that dead on 'reflex spot' under the caps. you do not aleways hit it on the first try. let me know what THAT actually shows, okay?

    just having a cord injury or having it impacted in some way would tend to 'play out' as if you DID actually 'injure' it too in most cases since the cord cannot really 'tell' the difference, it only senses/feels the overall impact of 'something' that is not supposed to be there actually 'doing' something to affect it. so things just do get responded to in pretty much the same way, just without any actual 'trauma' like you would have with an 'injury and the accompaning swelling and other crap.

    when you mentioned that you have missed your 'annual' MRIs, the past two? does that mean the initial or the last one you actually had done was like three years ago? this seriously NEEDS to be monitored and NOT waited on until you should start actually 'feeling stronger impact symptoms' since that cord tissue is not at all really forgiving if it is even affecting the UMNs at this point. it means the cord IS being directly impacted NOW. at least getting one comparritive MRI and with a contrasting agent really IS so needed K,seriously. you NEED to know just how much this has grown and what IS being affected. while the majority of there ARE benign in nature, there is a possible with some that are not. have you foundout THAT much from the doc who initially found this out?

    what reflex bowel actually is when anything is simply really impacting the cord tissue itself tho it states above T 12, not everyones actual anatomy is simply always textbook either. so that could be why, if you have this, that you DO at all. did it state on your MRI just exactly where your "conus' is? the conus is the medical term for basically 'the end of the cord'. and it 'usually IS right around that same T 12 level give or take up or down a vert or two. some peoples end way above T 12 and some can go a bit beyond it into the lumbar a bit too. not an exacting thing in all people, thats why i am asking.

    but reflex bowel is basically the inability to "sense' a full bowel anymore. so when the rectum gets full, tho that anal sphincter DOES stay closed(the anals main muscle)for the most part, at some point when the bowel reaches the actual rectum, you 'could' actually have a BM at just about any time. and you would NOT be able to control THAT part since when our rectums get full, it lets us usually know that by simple 'sensation" in the people without bowel reflex problems will just 'know' its time to hit the bathroom. but when you have this, you no longer would be able to truely feel it, but once that rectum just becomes full, it kind of 'reflexes/releases' on its own kinda thing? it(the muscle) just 'feels' the full rectum and it automatically 'opens that muscle and lets go. people with actual spinal cord injuries who have this have to do what is called 'a bowel maintanance program" for the rest of their lives. its basically knowing what you ate and how long it takes for you to fully digest and then you personally having to stimulate that muscle BEFORE the rectum does it automatically. does that help?

    the things i would be kind of worried about here given that this meningioma actually forms usually somewhere kind of ON the arachnoid layer but can 'appear' depending on how clear the MRI actually was like it is ONLY in that dura, is the impact it IS having on your cord K, just by the compression alone? the meninges is actually the full three outter layers of what lays kind of 'over/around our spinal cords delicate neural tissue where ALL of our functions and responses get relayed back and forth to and from the brain to stimulate response/movements(the meninges is the dura mater,arachnoid membrane and then pia mater). if nothing gets done, or this seriously starts to impact that neural tissue more heavily, that damage caused by real compression can in some cases be a permanent thing. parts of these can also calcify which would be a much 'harder impact' upon your cord too. but there ARE newer therepies and ways to try and treat these now too that depending upon location, they CAN also be resected out.

    my spinal cord is an absolute mess K, and trust me here, the very LAST thing that you want to live with is any level of true spinal cord injuries. they suck and affect MANY functions when only even one spinal tract becomes involved as well. i would HIGHLY highly advise you hon to just go to see your doc(your own primary can refer you) first to finally obtain that very badly needed better contrasted type of MRI done. then seek out an experienced IN meningiomas type of neurosurgeon just to get "their opinion' on it, and more importantly just how this IS impacting you, and your body as a whole. you just HAVE to have this re evaluated after that much time has passed K, you really do. i KNOW what you mean by procrastinating this off, i am kind of doing the very same thing here with two OTHER crappy things that have to be dealt with too. but i have already been thru sooo much loss and crappy sh** i am in a severe recurrent depression state right now just living and dealing with the aftermath mostly of the cord damage i now have. the sooner you just CAN try like heck to just force yourself if you have to, to GET that MRI done to start, i swear K, the much better off you will be in the long run here vs if you do not. what you have just does tend to grow over time and can impact sooo flippin much depending upon soo many factors that NEED to be found out now, not later AFTER some levels of major damage can set in that cannot be reversed. i am not trying to freak you out here K, just telling you the whole truth on what you just 'could be' dealing with now vs later. sometimes we simply DO have to force ourselves into doing things that have to be done(part of what we deal with here is also a form of denial that we have anything wrong? if i do not seek help, i will be fine. not knowing is better than actually knowing type of thinking? been there done that one to death). i have already been thru hell and back with what started with major liver failure then thankfully a transplant with my youngest son(then a traumatic brain injury tooin 05), and i honestly thought that THAT was going to be 'our' crap and things would get better. oh heck no. they had to find a vascular glob inside of my cord when i simply herniated a flippin disc. and it was bleeding and had to come out. thankfully hon, your problem lies in the OUTTER layers and not within the cord itself. but please, for your own safety and overall best health, see about starting slow with just obtaining that NEEDED updated MRI and let things take their course from there. you do NOT at all want to end up where i am, not even close hon. i DO hope you will please take the advise of at least finding out by MRI right now just where this thing is(can grow up,down in or outwards) and how much growth and overall impact it is having on your cord K. just hang in there and do what IS needed and in YOUR best interest. take care, marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 12-04-2011, 03:18 AM   #9
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Marcia, thanks for your reply and IĎm sorry to hear things on your end are so tough. I hope things look up real soon.

    Iíll start by answering your questions and then explain a bit of whatís going on (sigh).

    I have not been dx with reflex bowel. My knee jerk reflex is absent (4+ yrs now). I canít rem if it happens with both or just one but the only way they can get a reflex is when I clinch my fingers together and pull outward while theyíre tapping. They had a name for the clinched finger technique, of course I forget what it is. I donít recall hearing anything about (?) hyper reflexia.. (Does insertional Achilles tendonitis count for anything? I swear itĎs going to kill me.) I have not had an MRI for 2 yrs, this mth. The tumor is believed to be benign due to itís homogenous something or otherÖ I donít recall the word Ďconusí anywhere on any of my reports. I could be wrong though, if I donít get a new one soon, Iíll dig them out.

    My issue. I first noticed this around April, 2009 and it has not improved. It may be getting worse (see bladder issue below). Sooo embarrassed to try to explain this. I have stool resting in my anus, almost always. When I first noticed it I searched online and thought írectoceleí matched my symptoms. I could feel pressure and a bulge in the area between my front and back. It felt like stool was trying to come thru the V-wall. I eventually made a gyno appt thinking if thatís what it was, the dr would recognize it. I basically made the appt for a 10+ yr pap and mentioned nothing of this. And neither did he so I figured I was over-reacting and it was nothing important/serious.

    I eventually ran across the info on motor neuron control. This is explained much like a rectocele or at least I think so because the ability to move stool is obviously diminished. I can feel stool in my anus (and Iíve read that it should not be resting so low) when I wipe front to back when I pee and despite it being ĎthereĎ (for so long sometimes) I still have no urge to move my bowels. When I move them, thereís always a hook appearance on the end where you can tell itís resting in both lower descending colon and the anus instead of simply passing thru as designed.

    In reading about this I thought I seemed to be having a mixture of both upper and lower motor neuron issues. Is that possible? Iíve had zero accidents (Thank God) but aside from Ďno urgeí it ífeels like my sphincter muscles are 'tighter' than norm. I thought no urge was from upper and the tightening was from lower.. I may be wrong, or vice-versa. Anyway, I have noticed on occasion lately that when I get up in the morning and go to pee.. the flow is delayed. I pushed this outta my mind as a symptom because it has only happened 4-5 times over a period of cpl mths. I had my urethra stretched when I was a child and I have NEVER since been able to delay a morning pee or stop a flow of urine. Once I exert myself, itís there, so this occasional delay, along with the bowel thing almost has me thinking this really could be cord related.

    I also read about various testing, from ultrasound, to paste in the bumm, and I figured if I did find the urge to speak to my dr I probably would spend another 2 yrs trying to get myself to suck-it-up and do the tests. Will a simple MRI show motor neuron issues or must they test sphincter muscles with those more invasive tests? No matter my intentions Iím notorious for losing the nerve to bring this up, and go figure, I really like this CNP. (Neuro for tumor, I know).

    So Marcia, when you find time, let me know what you think. I will work on making an appt for MRI, really. Thanks again for your time.

     
    Old 02-01-2012, 09:02 AM   #10
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Well.. I finally found the nerve to discuss this with my dr. He ordered an MRI which I had late Mon afternoon and by Tues morning the office had left a msg saying they needed to talk about my results. The nurse said the tumor was compressing the cord and that it had grown since last scan. They are waiting for me to tell them where to send the results. I'm going to pick this report up and I'm sure I'll be back with a question or two.

     
    Old 02-01-2012, 10:10 AM   #11
    feelbad
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 10,122
    feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    soo glad you finally had this(good girl). and DO post the report summary here when you get it, K? sorry i have not been back here, things have been just a bit sicker around here than the norm level of sick. trying to maintain energy for the crap i need to do here. but AM sooo wanting to know your results hon. i am now way over my lil time limit on my PC here so i cannot get into too much. just wnated you to know i got the update mail and AM atill alive, at least last time i checked anyways, geezuz. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 02-02-2012, 08:48 PM   #12
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Thanks Marcia.. I appreciate your input. I hate that you're having a tough time and I hope that it gets better soon.

    Here's the important stuff, including 'some stuff' I may not necessarily understand.

    Findings: prior lumbar fusion @ L5-S1.. There are degenerative changes of the L5-S1 disc. Bony spinal canal overall is congenitally small. T12-L1 intradural and extramedullary mass. Mass demonstrates contrast enhancement. Lesion measures 1.1 x 8.4mm in craniocaudal and AP dimensions. Prev measured 9.3 x 5.9mm. Mass causes posterior indentation on cord. Spinal canal measures 8mm.

    L3-L4 Disc and osteophyte narrows the left neural foramen.
    L4-L5 Disc protrusion asymmetric toward left measuring 4 mm. Mild facet and ligamentum flavum hytrophy. The thecal sac measures 10mm. Disc and osteophyte narrows left neural foramen greater than right.

    Impression: Stuff about tumor (msmnts, ect again). Bony spinal canal overall is congenitally small. Disc and osteophyte narrows left neural foramen at L4-5. Clinic correlation and follow up suggested.



    It doesn't seem to say anything related to nerve compression (regarding bowel/bladder issues) but I'm guessing things are getting too cramped for comfort. I wouldn't think indentation is something to play with??? For the most part I'm painfree since my fusion in 09 but I have been feeling hardware lately (odd) when I twist, so I just.. stopped doing that (twisting). Seeing this report, I wonder if its the L4-L5 beginning to crap out. What is bony spinal canal? What do they mean by, clinical correlation suggested? When they say deg changes to L5S1, do they mean 'since my last MRI' in comparison? (If so, yikes, cuz it has been fused since the last MRI. It should look good and be exactly where it's supposed to be.) What is osteophyte??

    Last edited by krazy2day; 02-02-2012 at 08:59 PM.

     
    Old 02-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #13
    feelbad
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 10,122
    feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    honestly K2, jenny and web are really soo much better when it comes to fully describing esp the lower back areas than i am. while i do know the basic layout there and what some of the wordings mean, they seem to be able to simply put it all together in a much more 'understandable" way for YOU? so i am curious what they would describe this as overall.

    but you DO most definitely have areas where the spinal nerves run thru in that Lumbar level mostly left sided, with what is stated as your 'neural foramen" at L 3 4 on the L side that is being compromised/made smaller either by stenosis or osteo complexes (and a disc) which are basically boney overgrowths that i too have a ton of up in my c spine that are esp compromising my c 6 right now. if there had not been a lami done with my cord surgery back in 03, that area would definitely be pushing directly into my cord with much more force. not having the back on that vert just allows more of a 'cushion' of space for me.

    but then at L 4-5 it mentions not only osteo complexes again, but also having a "disc" basically herniated that is also compromising that same L side but at next level foramen as well as somewhat to the R side too, but does not appear to be really impacting anything critical at this point on R. so BOTH of those levels 'can be' impacting your L side spinal nerves. it just depends and also would/could impact upon YOU moving your hips/low back in certain ways to even have it react? when they mention doing 'clinical correlation", all that really comes down to is doing MORE specific testing on you to see HOW compromised those areas are more specifically,and how THOSE findings would correlate to the MRI findings too. hands on neuro exams(how YOUR body responds to what the neuro does with hands on testing of a particular area/extremity, or "evoked/provoked" testing), AND doing EMG/NCVs to check the nerve flow velocitys there would be a good idea. but just the fact that you also have hardware? i am thinking that following this up with a good contrasted CT might not be a bad idea(or at VERY least, x rays at all angles down there), only because it gives a much more very clear pic of all the outter boney areas along with seeing the very clear picture of how your hardware is sitting as well. i too have hardware up in my c spine that made it almost impossible to see actual screws that shifted out of where they were once well anchored in my c 6 and are now somewhat sideways to almost straight up and the two tips have penetrated the floor of my c 5.
    ( the biggest problem with MRI and hardware is the metal will blurr horribly with only MRI). THAT sick finding never ever showed up on 'only' my MRI taken like only 5 months prior to that CT. very different types of scans only becasue one uses magnetism for pics and the other uses radiation. so they can pic up some very different things too depending.

    the one thing i REALLY am having a very hard time trying to understand is the 'WHY" no one has bothered to just plainly state where the heck the very END of your spinal cord actually terminates(the conus?) only because of the specific area you actually even HAVE this is right usually about where that WOULD terminate in the majority of the population, at T 12. but yours, based upon even having cord impact beyond that point, would HAVE to be further down into the lumbar than most. which in my opinion would make this even MORE crucial to just 'know' where it ends, and for ALOT of reasons too, ya know what i mean?

    one other finding in that report actually mentions this pretty lg 'mass' actually being located 'posterior'? "mass causes "posterior(not what i kinda pictured as anterior)indentation on cord". unless that particular level IS right where your conus actually is, and this is kind of 'migrating" as it has been growing but going "around to" the opposite side in some way?? that one has me scratchin my head. everything else about this just makes it 'appear' that this IS/WAS anteriorally located. or more 'on/in the front of' the meninges' or within the dura right behind the vertebral levels of the spinal column. but could also have been a typo too. but that one is just kida 'odd' considering all the other info given on both reports. if you actually have your copy of the MRI CD? take a good look at that and just 'see' where this all appears to be located for me, if you can see it with that hardware.

    you have what is something you were actually born with as the 'congenitally smaller boney spinal canal. that canal is where our actual spinal CORDS run thru. i belive it stated 8mms, when the norm can be from 10(mine is) to around an average if i recall right about 12mms? it means the overall inner 'diameter' that the cord has to lie in.

    but this STILL appears based upon the wordings used to describe it, still all contained within that dura(intradural) and the 'extramedullary' which means it is NOT at all IN your cord or thru to the bone marrow. as an example here, my hemangioma was described a 'intramedullary' meaning THAT unfortuently was INSIDE my cord tissue. so it does appear to still be comntained within the meninges,so thats good, but it HAS become larger since your last MRI. but it "sounds like' they are talking in a more up and down way vs this growing larger kind of in a 'sideways/into the cord level" way? i just cannot for the life of me figure out that 'posterior indentation tho. unless like i mentioned above, it IS right AT the conus and is impacting THAT way? seeing the actual films really can be soo much more helpful than mere reports,ya know? if it at least stated posterior to 'what' in reference to" it would help some. this just also 'could be' the hardware possibly migrating, depending upon what was simply even placed, and the fact you said you can 'feel it', that could 'possibly' be whats being seen but just not clearly enough?

    when they did that surgery, did they go in thru your back or did they have to do the much more invasive anterior approach? i am just seriously trying to understand the 'what' in the indentation on what appears to be the back side here. JEN? WEB?

    have you actually even seen your doc yet to even discuss these findings or are you still in the old 'wait' mode? i am just curious about what he or she has to say overall here. but they DO feel(the interpretting rad who did your report) that MORE ongoing testing is simply needed,and i think so too, just to know what this means for you and what can also possibly be done(only because this IS continuing to grow and has not stopped). luckily this just is NOT actually IN your cord at all and that would lessen the overall impact of any real spinal cord damage/injuries occurring even if they took this out. and believe me, that IS a really great thing, just not IN the neural tissue of the cord itself.

    just an FYI here as far as the degeterioration/degenerative crap goes? anyone can have this crap continue on even after a very 'successful' surgery to fix things within any areas of that boney spinal structure along with the discs. i have DDD which no matter how great any level of herniation 'fix' i would and have had, i still continue to have that deterioration. in some of us, it IS an actual disease process and in others, just natural aging. so that is NOT at all unusual.

    now we need to see what jen and web have to say here. i do hope i was able to help at least clarify something for you K2. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

    Last edited by feelbad; 02-03-2012 at 08:51 AM.

     
    Old 02-03-2012, 11:31 PM   #14
    krazy2day
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Posts: 251
    krazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB Userkrazy2day HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    Marcia, yes, thank you.

    My understanding of the posterior indentation is this: When they do a laminectomy to get near this thing, the mass will be located just inside the dura. It makes sense to me they call it a posterior indentation because of it being 'there' and pushing 'in' against my cord, denting it from behind (posteriorally). I don't know my math well enough to tackle measurements but one Dr said it was about the sz of a peanut at 9mm. On the older MRI DVD's the mass is on the right hand side of the cord (and screen), if that makes sense (and if they shoot everyone in the same position, lol, I guess.

    I'm familiar with your mass and location and yes, I'm thankful it's not within the cord itself. Lucky you, eh? I have not followed up on this, I have to decide where I want my CNP to send the report. IF I thought there was a chance they would want this out now, I'd want them to send it to the Cleveland Clinic. IF I thought they'd just do tests, therapies or whatever, I'd have that done here. I'll figure it out by Monday.

    My fusion was a posterior only entry. Were you leaning toward the tumor or indentation 'possibly' being a loose screw? I could see that happening maybe but since they measured it and note that its a tad larger, it also makes sense that it's pushing into places it shouldn't. No previous MRI has ever said cord indentation. The canal is 8mm, the mass 9mm. That confuses me. I've known certain masses to grow several/many levels. I dont know if they gambled and watched them, or simply didn't find them until they were that large.

    Thanks again Marcia..

     
    Old 02-04-2012, 10:01 AM   #15
    feelbad
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 10,122
    feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
    Re: Spinal Cord Meningioma

    NOW it all makes sense. for some reason, since i don't think you ever mentioned just exactly what 'side' this was on, i simply had assumed(stupid i know,lol) it WAS just indeed located anteriorly.that was MY bad. actually having this on the posterior side really does make it much easier to access if it should ever need to come out tho,and thats a good thing for you in MANY ways. now that i know the location here, that indent makes more sense to me.

    because of the actual location of this sucker, it more than 'likely' just IS the actual mass that is doing this and not really hardware so much? but as i stated in the other post, just getting a radiologic look with at least x ray, but the best would actually be a contrasted CT to REALLY just see that hardware and how 'it' is doing would help to 'correlate' some findings too. CT and x ray just DO show hardware extremely well, and in my case, you can actually see the tiny little threads OF the screws too. thats just how very clearly radiation(mine was a non contrasted CT that picked that up) will pick up more 'solid' objects like metal and boney segments too. it would just be a really great type of follow up test. it would be able to see much more within the areas where any metal is simply located MUCH much more clearly than ANY even contrasted MRI would, just because of that sick blurr factor. it really IS the only way to really know if the hardware(what DID ypu have placed there??) 'could be" the problem or if this is the mass that is impacting just by where they can see the current location OF that hardware in relation to what showed on the MRI.

    what i am simply thinking here is depending upon the exacting areas of the lami's you had for the surgery, it IS unfortuently possible for anything on the 'back' of the spinal cord to also grow on thru and possibly even 'into' that space that gets left behind only because the canal is now a bit larger than before your lami/surgery? do ya get what i mean? or, just looking at the words 'crainocaudal', that would be if i remember right the more 'up and down' type dimentions vs the AP dementions that give more of the actual width/diameter of the cord or in your case here with the measurements, the mass? its just a wee bit confusing in how they have the measurements also worded in that report to just 'know'. tho it does 'sound' like the longest dimension IS up and down(crainio means head/brain while caudal means the lower regions, like sacral or "caudal area" towards end of spinal?) and may not actually be the overall 'width' were talking,ya know what i mean?

    just from what i can recall when i initially looked this type of lesion up, it does tend to kind of 'creep" more in an up and down pattern vs side to side, but i would have to double check that to know for certain since it WAS a while ago. but this just 'sounds' like what they are actually talking about. while it CAN also grow wider, which would make sense with the 'new indent' being there, it has also grown up and down based upon the other previous measurements from the "old' MRI too.

    i really DO think you need to at the very LEAST at this point, have a FULL consult and eval by a good neurosurgeon who simply KNOWS meningiomas. this/you just needs to be evaluated and you told what this means for you too right now. my main areas of spinal cord damage are at more towards the back to the left side, and the spinal tracts are much more critical like the spinothalamic which carries our pain pathway to the pain receptors in our brains too(this particular tract held the most of my angioma unfortuently)? mine got pretty much demolished during my hemangioma resection along with another more critical tract called the spinocerebellar which governs alot of our more basic functions/abilitys too(everything within that cerebellum). you just NEED to know what this means for you right now hon, not later when some really much more impactful symptoms start popping in. you already know that more than likely your upper motor neurons are being impacted, which would not be unusual even with 'just' that mass being where it is ON your cord. but the indent, depending how much direct force is behind it can do its own types of damage and symptoms too. trust me K, you do NOT want to wait to get this at least evaled THEN, but now while things are NOT really impactful yet.

    if this simply had NOT grown in any shape or size at all, i would be telling you to just get this checked/monitored, but unfortuently, it HAS decided to grow on you. that just really ups the chances of this continuing to get larger and become more potentially impactful TO the cord and function, so that kind of 'changes' the plan too. i was in kind of the same 'type' of situation with my angioma. if my glob had NOT bled at all, i would have left it the hell alone in my cord. but when i finally got to the ONLY NS out of three who actually even bothered to tell me that this had bled at all even before the initial MRI that first found it, who referred to it as 'an active bleeder', well everything kinda changed after that. i was running out of room, but 'inside' of my spinal cord.

    it really does come down to what the 'odd' things that just can even BE inside our bodies actually decide to DO on us that realistically kind of determines our options and what or who we NEED to see for at least that critical eval/consult K. this just HAS grown and you also have some levels of real impact at the spinal nerve levels too that will progress over time as well. SO, it just IS time to check out a good NS at the cleveland clinic you mentioned and find one that specializes in what you just have. this is exactly what I would be doing right now, if this were me hon. you need further testing and a full eval with this particular doc. chances are that he or she WILL want to do more in depth types of testing on you here too. just so 'they know' what it is that they are dealing with much more fully. but i would get moving on this now K, just considering everything we now know. seeing the specialist does NOT mean you would be just automatically 'locked into' ANY type of surgery, its just your absolute NEED to see a good NS who can do for you the right tests, and tell you things you need to know in order to even MAKE that fully informed decision that is totally up to you. good luck hon,and i AM here for ya K. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Baby with tethered spinal cord debsite Spinal Cord Disorders 12 06-27-2012 07:53 PM
    anything for severe spinal canal stenosis besides surgery?? FrightenedMe Spinal Cord Disorders 14 08-31-2011 03:07 PM
    Internal Bleeding in Spinal Cord markiepoop Spinal Cord Disorders 2 08-10-2010 09:54 AM
    Spasticity, Imbalance, Spinal Cord "Shadow" & Spinal Tap? answersplease Spinal Cord Disorders 5 07-03-2010 12:43 AM
    Cervical spinal stenosis willy856 Spinal Cord Disorders 2 05-27-2010 11:37 AM
    Spinal cord injury MRI results sherristephenso Spinal Cord Disorders 2 01-18-2010 10:02 AM
    Spinal Cord Flattening in C-spine TheMamaLisa Spinal Cord Disorders 11 05-20-2006 02:44 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:25 PM.





    © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!