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    Old 02-05-2012, 04:24 PM   #1
    jaze
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    Acdf c-6-7

    2 days out of surgery , disc was pressed against cord , lower body is numb regaining balance and cooridination slowly ... I had no numbess befor surgery whats on the horizon,, will i regain my ability to walk normmally . Completly numb from the waste down right worse then left . I have maintained control of baldder and bowels any insight would be aprreciated thanks jaze

     
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    Old 02-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #2
    feelbad
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    hi jaze,and sorry you even have to be here asking these types of questions. what did the NS who did your surgery have to say regarding the post op but not there pre op numbness and other symptoms?? that would be a good thing for us to know.

    how was the area of impact to your cord actually fully described word for word as the interpretting radiologist wrote it? if you have that report, if you could simply let us know just how that summary/conclusion thats on the very last page was written per the rad, it would really help. it would simply give the impact of this TO or onto your cord a much more in depth way.

    was the word 'mylomalacia' written in that report at ALL? that really would kind of dictate the overall impact TO your cord as that disc sat up against it, if that one word was there as 'being present' or not too.

    do you know if during this surgery the NS decided to use whats called 'intraoperative monitoring' on you? they would have placed lil electrodes like definitely in specific places down your arms and also down your legs if they did. this type of monitoring just keeps a very close watch over all of your motor and sensory nerves to make certain that when the surgeon goes to 'move or lift' something off of or around that cord, that if anything is being impacted either with those nerves or actually inside that cord as well, the neurophysiatrist who ONLY watches that monitor during your surgery would see it and alert the surgeon usually BEFORE any actual movement causing damage gets done. it is a very highly sensitve to nerve impact monitoring.

    what you just 'could' also be experiencing is a milder form of what is kind of a 'spinal shock' where certain areas of the cord that WERE impacted kind of have to 'recover' from what was just done there too(if it was actually compressed to a certain level, that cord has to kind of 'rebound' back out of itself to certain degrees which CAN also generate issues further down in your legs)? it can and does happen with more impactful to cord tissue types of surgeries and injuries sometimes. but your NS REALLY does need to be giving you much more info than it appears you have been given? when do you see him or her again next? if not soon, i WOULD be calling and asking why this is even occuring from HIS impressions compared to level of cord impact you just had. and why or if there just IS any plan here for your rehab as well.

    whenever the pt simply does experience ANYTHING that would be kind of an impact by virtue of the overall symptoms you are displaying, it is also UP to that surgeon to order the 'appropriate" types of rehab therepy too(in your situation, it should have been started BEFORE he allowed you to even BE discharged). thats the part i really am not fully understanding here esp when any real numbness suddenly presented itself(can be very dangerous for you to even BE walking depending upon if this is total or subtle numbness) but moreso, you simply even being THAT unsteady on your feet. its just a real risk for falls there, that can be a big issue considering your surgical status right now. even temporarily using a walker would help you regain some of the "walking strength' and mobility but helping you from falling while doing it,ya know? i used one after an actual spinal cord surgery that required rehabbing back my entire L leg, and it DID still really help after i was discharged when home too. but i had also regained the ability at that time, TO be discharged was a requirement that i HAD TO be able to climb a set of stairs too, so i knew i was more stable? but still used that walker, mostly outside.

    i really am kind of suprised that you were even discharged considering the NEW post op symptoms at all just being there? something just really does not sound 'right' here with this 'treatment' you are NOT even getting to help YOU in all the best ways. but being sent home with almost total lower torso numbness really seems kinda crazy to me anyways. if that had at least been there pre op, maybe i could see it, but this being NEW post op, not so much.

    is there ANY types of symptoms going on to either arm down to each individual finger? anything like what is occuring down below at all? if not, while that is great, this would tend to actually point more to your spinal cord 'inner nerves' than the upper c spine nerves being the culprit for what popped in post op.

    but i most certainly would be talking to that surgeon if i were you. i also would obtain every single document in what is called your "central file" from that surgical hosp too just to see the surgeons "op notes(a form of transcript of the surgery) but more importantly, to see IF they did do intra op monitoring, just what that neurophysiatrist wrote up as HIS op notes too. those particular monitoring notes are usually the ONLY place where ANY actual nerve losses of velocitys or other possible impacts/issues would be noted. they are NOT in the surgeons actual notes if this WAS just monitored at all, which ih my opinion, considering your overall post op impact, should have been done.

    but if you have the pre op MRI you could possibly give us, it would help to try and give you the very best advice. knowing how impactful that compression just was,and what YOUR pre op symptoms were and whwere they were would also help now too to just know as well. but DO try and obtain a walker, at least for the next few weeks. it IS a big safety issue here, thats all. hopefully your surgeon has some explanations for you and a good rehab plan that will start soon too. good luck, marcia
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    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 02-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #3
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    thank you for responding , i at least now have a direction to go in .. i am using a walker and am able to walk on the treadmill and elyptical ... stairs are also do able .. my left ring finger is a little numb and was painful after surgery .. the nuero surgieon thinks it is swellling that may be causing the numbness in my lower half i will try to obtain the docs you sugggested and post them asap ....pre surgery i had head achs and neck and shouder pain i also suffr fro a small spinal canal .. the surgeon did mention that they monitored the spine during surgery and i will try to obtain those notes .. thanks again ...john

     
    Old 02-07-2012, 08:03 AM   #4
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    john, if you can obtain those inta op monitoring notes, it really WOULD tell/show whether or not anything got 'hit/lost' or there was ANY change at all with your actual neuro status when they lifted compression, or 'something else may have impacted too. these particular notes are usually the ONLY place this type of stuff even gets recorded in any real way shape or form. and the really great thing about these intra notes, vs the surgeons op notes is anything that just DID possibly get hit, or lost, or changed in there during your surgery IS recorded by the electrodes placed and TO a monitor that records them onto a screen then paper. so anything would or should just 'be there'. and that intra monitoring doc also has to make HIS little summary of what occured or did not occur during ones surgery too. so you would have the actual print out of that monitors changes(if any) plus the neurophysiatrists own op notes TELLING what he saw and how your body responded as well to certain "types' of changes in status, if something just DID occur.

    with my spinal cord surgery, i lost a ton of innervation and yet NOTHING was actually written about this IN the 'neurosurgeons' required op notes, but could NOT for some sick reason get my hands on the INTRA notes right away, so had to play detective just to even FIND where they were, when by law, they just ARE supposed to just also be IN your central file just as with the surgeons op notes too. but those intra notes those were the ones i REALLY needed to prove my case to SSD when i was trying to get on it. god i ws soo pi****. i finally tracked down the monitoring docs main office and one of HIS staff got them out of storage for me or i probably never would have won SSD eventually.

    if you were NOT warned about ANY potential losses pre op that could happen, then if anything did, the surgeon would have to record anything that just 'happened' in his op notes, but in my case, only becasue i WAS told pre op about losing the nerves to my feet and also my fine motor functions to my hands, because those nerves unfortuently were in the way to even GET to what had to come out of my cord. believe it or not, my surgeon was able to check off the lil box at the top of his op note report that stated 'everything went as 'expected'. except MY "expected" was to lose crap. and THAT part ssd did NOT know about, so according to THEM, everything with me was just wonderful, despite very in depth documentation of rehabbing back my leg in an actual rehab hosp, and my L hand was clawing too. but to them i guess they think thats like 'normal or something(they denied me the first round but without those intra monitoring notes)? blew me away actually. so i HAD to obtain those intra op notes to even HAVE "proof of impactful SCI injury" at all. but thats just the way ssd works.

    but everything just related to your surgery just 'should be' in that central file. just call that hospital and ask for the medical records dept and they will take it from there and send out a release of information for you to sign and fill out first, then simply send it back. let me know when you get that release john so i can tell you just exactly what to just write on it to make certain you obtain ALL of the things YOU just are entitled to and need,K?

    just curious if you actually woke up in recovery with the lower torso symptoms, esp the numbness? just wondering since it would usually take awhile before real solid swelling stated to develop in you depending upon just how long your surgery lasted? and they also DO slam you with steriods post op too just TO reduce any potential swelling as well. i had a ton of 'decadron' started immediately after my ACDF which also was at your level of surgery too.

    seeing what your pre op MRI report had to say really would help here when you get that. just an FYI here too. having a post op MRI done like within that at least end of two month post op period would also show alot possibly now that trust me, will no longer be there after time passes if anything was actually done, or impacted your cord at all. you could still see where they went in to my actual spinal cord, along with a still tiny 'space' where my 4x6x8mms sized hemangioma had been sitting inside my cord too. and also what is mylomalacia that is kind of a 'process at this point where the cord tissue that is no longer 'good' but like scar tissue, actually granualizes this and then it gets totally removed by macrophages. so you would NOT see this on any MRI that gets done PAST around the two to three month mark. but it would be there, if there just IS any, right now.

    after my one year follow up MRI, my cord looked absolutely 'pristine, with NONE of the stuff that had been there at my two month MRI? even that 'space" had filled in with 'something' too and no longer visable as 'space'. it 'does' try and kind of 'heal or right" itself, but the damage unbelievably can still be there as mine is still and my cord surgery was back in 2003. mine was just very deep with that particular surgery, but i was at least able to get my leg and some of my fine motor back in the L hand that took all THAT damage, but still have deficits that were not at all recoverable.

    do you know off hand just how wide your spinal canal actually is? depending upon just how much real swelling you may have, that too can contribute to at least 'some' a bit extra compression in there too.

    i would ask your NS at your next visit about possibly getting that new updated MRI at this point. at like that between month to two months, any actual swelling just 'should be' down, and if your numbness has gone, at least you know that THAT was causeing your numbness this whole time. but if this goes into the second month and that numbness has not at LEAST started to go away or get better, that alone WOULD dictate a NEED to get that MRI done to 'see' what may still just 'be there' that can as i stated above, actually go away over a pretty short period of time. and the cord just 'looks/appears' fine, but YOU have some level of underlying damage there to now deal with. but reading the intra notes would tell you alot too about ANY areas that may have been hit,and lost or hit, damaged, but came back as with my one motor nerve in my L leg did. my motor to my foot is at a lower velocity(and firing differently now) despite my insane spasticity in this now. but that one got hit and DID come back, just damaged, while a sensory in my R leg got hit and never came back. and this IS all recorded in my intra notes too.

    is what you are doing at home with the treadmill and the other machine actually been okayed by your NS for you to even do yet john? you just always NEED to make certain that esp anything really physical is always good with the surgeon for YOUR overall level of healing and weeks post op too. doing certain activities before we are ready can just have very big consequences for us if we go beyond our set by surgeon boundries, or should take a fall. just making sure that you STAY safe here, thats all.

    while swelling just 'could' be the cause of your lower torso symptoms, what i just cannot believe is that with this brand new symptom being there at all, he decided to discharge you home? they are just some pretty impactful types of post op symptoms to even try and accomodate when you have NEVER ever had to deal with total numbness and try to walk before, ya know what i mean?

    i forgot to ask this. just exactly where does your numbness begin? is this like directly at or immediately under your level of surgery at the neck or does this begin further down? is this only one sided at ANY point or the whole entire area below? this really IS important to know.

    never mind, i JUST reread your initial post john where you state the numbness is NOT right from the level of surgical impact but actually STARTS at the waist level?? while certain things ARE just possible when esp the 'inner cord' is involved and generating symptoms, something just does NOT 'sound right' about just where/how your numbness is starting considering, ya know? you just 'could' have a possible issue going on somewhere right AT where that numbness simply begins much further down that could be impacting both sides, like with a full 'central' issue of some kind impacting both of your sensory nerves at the very same time? i really DO think getting a FULL spinal MRI would help to either rule this in or out and also would check on the surgical area to see what is also now going on in there too.

    while there just also can be very spefic 'types' of actual 'symdromes' that can impact the body surface areas in strange ways, it is just rather 'odd' unless very specific sensory nerves running thru the entire cord were impacted from that compression or damage was caused in some way and AT the surgical site. its just usually with spinal impact and even cord injury, the level right directly AT or below the level of impact is where 'normal' sensory loss/other symptoms would generally begin, and not with a really large body surface area being in between the impact area(and NO symptoms there) and where the sensory loss starts. this also can be one sided or both with cord injury.

    JENNY? WEB? can you possibly help out here on this? i will have to do some more in depth checking here on this. neuroanatomy is such a learning experience. i am just wondering what actual spinal tracts were in the way or got impacted possibly too with that compression. i need to check my SCI info. my cord injury is also right at that c 8 nerve level that is where your impact to that pinkie is.

    that pinkie? did you have ANY issues with that or ANY of your fingers pre op? that pinkie just is totally and completely innervated by the c 8 nerve(also the "ulnar") that lies without its own vertebrae(kind of a more 'free nerve" so to speak), and of course right under c 7 and the top of T 1. that would have had to have been hit or something 'done to it' in order for you to feel any sensory loss or impact at all. and THAT for all intents and purposes also should be in the intra op notes too if this or something actually impacted your nerve flow there(if swelling, it could have occured over time too unless you woke up in recovery with this). if nothing is written about that c 8 in the intra notes, then chances are, since the electrodes placed are what tells the tale here with ANY nerve impact, that the swelling is potentailly more responsible than a nerve hit.

    but DO obtain any and all testing reports and also just call that hosp and get that ball rolling. also, after you are kind of 'done" like six weeks out or so, with this surgeon, also obtain ALL of his clinic visit notes he made about you too from HIM. those also contain alot of 'his overall impressions' of you and ANY potential damage and ongoing healing status too. i do this with every single surgery i have had done as well. but ALWAYS obtain any and ALL testing result reports of ANY kind, just so you can read thru things yourself, and also just 'have them' in your own files you keep at home too. they DO and can come in very handy in many different ways. but you just also DO have every right to have this type of info on yourself too.

    just do also keep track of all of your symptoms kind of day by day and anything that just may pop in, or change in you too. little things, when it comes to having any real cord impact can really tell/mean alot. just be careful on that treadmill john. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

    Last edited by feelbad; 02-07-2012 at 08:37 AM. Reason: needed to add info

     
    Old 02-07-2012, 12:08 PM   #5
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    thanks marcia i appreciate the advice , i have contacted the hospitl to get the ball rolling on the master file it may take up to 10 days , i will let you know when i receive the pper work . i will have to go to the mri office to get a report will lbe doinhg that this week when the weathe clears up . the ns did approve my cardio and encourahges me to walk at least 2 miles a day .. i will be seeing him next monday . i did wake up with the numbness in the recovery room ringfinger on left hand was in pain and i was unable to stand on my own it is very odd that i did not have any symtoms of lower body problems prior to surgery. in fact i am a body builder and my legs were the strongest part of my body . i will suggest a full mri at my next app thanks again marcia your experience will prove to be invaluable to me in the near future .... thanks j

     
    Old 02-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #6
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    hi marcia , just picked up the mri report here goes .... at the c6-7 level , a severe central stenosis is seen, due to a small canal developmentally and a moderatley large broad based dorsal bony ridge disc complex, which compresses the cord ,increased signal in the cord suggests associated myelopathy , prominent bilateral unconvertibral spurs are seen ith severe bilateral foraminal narrowing .
    conclusion ; multi level cervical spondylosis with central and forminal stenosies seen at multiple levels most severe at the c6-7 level mylepathy in the cord is evident at this level.

    other notes; c-1 odontoid ariculation, there is hypertrophic arthropathy noted
    c2-3 no significant abnormallity
    c3-4 small midline right base dorsal protusion extends up and appears to be in contact with vental cord , w/o displacing the cord . disk potrusion extends latterally to the foramina , with moderate prominate narrowing seen bilaterally . uncovertibral spurs are not clearly demonstrated. the central canal is tight with out being overly stenotic
    c4-5 mildly stenotic central canal is seen. a moderatley sized broad based dorsal disc protrusionis seen in the mid line ,which exstends up and appears to be in contact with the ventral cord. sighns of cord compression are equivical . mild right and moderatley severe left foraminalis narrowingdemonstrated and a small uncovertebrel spurs are noted.
    c5-6 ; moderate level stenosis is seen, due to developmentally small canal and small broad based dorsal discprotrusion which is contact with the ventral cord ,moderatley prominent bilateral foraminal narrowing is seen but uncovertebrel spurs are difficult to identify.
    c7-t1 level; there is no central stenosis but moderate bilateral forminal stenosis is demnstrted , due to spur disc complexes

    i was originally chedules for a 3 level acdf but the surdeon said the other 2 were not as bad as reported and he felt it best to just do the severe c6-7 ...john

     
    Old 02-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    attention mod why have you not posted my reply it has been 24 hours

     
    Old 02-09-2012, 09:05 AM   #8
    feelbad
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    sorry i could not get here yesterday john, way too many things going on here at certain times.

    what i find interesting is that despite that report mentioning over and over again that you have a "developmentally small canal', not even ONCE does this interpretting rad who made this report EVER mention the actual dimentions of it. it is just stated again and again, and also no cord amp dimensions either to KNOW how that cord is kinda sitting in that much more narrow canal. very odd or 'not complete" actually, since knowing THAT considering the many areas of issues up there you just have, it IS rather important to know, and for alot of good reasons.

    this IS a question i would ask your NS at that next appt(make a LIST of the real important questions that YOU need answers to FOR that appt). just considering the areas you have up inthe c spine with certain findings, i really am kind of suprised he only did that one 6-7 specific area since you will be having to have future surgeries. the "types' of spinal issues you just have are usually more progressive in nature and become more symptomatic over time. having that smaller canal alone can be a problem depending, but thankfully it does not appear you have any real solid actual canal stenosis, which in your case would/could make what you DO have in there much more impactful if you did.

    i DO think your wieght lifting may have created some of these types of issues over time, and age too. it also DOES make me wonder exactly what the rest of your spinal looks like there too down to that sacral area(esp that lumber considering the numbness). i would really press the NS for that MRI just so you get the whole total "look' at the entire spinal, including what is going on AT the impact area of your cord right now. while the rest of your spinal could be okay, chances just are, esp with the smaller canal combined with lifting i am assuming like every other day, or working different areas everyday, it IS just a possibility that esp that lumbar could have some issues too. our c spines and lumbars are the most 'usual' place to have problems, and when we are repeatedly lifting anything over and over again, the lumbar just also is at a bit higher risk for problems too.
    plus getting a good look at that impact area would show alot about whether or not you have ANY real granualizing or softening of the neural tissue from the compression that was there. this would be what is called myelomalacia. it, in this case, would be our bodies way of ridding any types of more deadened type of neural tissue from the cord itself. in this case it would be a 'process' that would kind of automatically just occur. that would be very important to know. what really makes me wonder about how impactful several areas are also being impinged upon is the fact that it does appear the interp radiologist also mentions your myelopathy already there BEFORE your surgery. myelopathy only shows itself if there is some level of real true spinal cord injury to even just nerve cells, white matter nerve fibers or even the spinal tracts that run signals up and down our cords between brain and periphery. alot of different areas can be impacted that would show myelopathy already there. you could also just have whats called 'compression myelopathy" too. considering your small canal size and what was pushing into the anterior of your cord there(a very hard rigid disc complex), you very much could also have suffered at least "some' level of real impact at the posterior side as well. it all depends upon just how much real solid force was pushed into that area of your cord. if i remember right, the sensory components within the cord sit more towards the anterior of the cord with the motor more towards the backside of the cord, so having that much real pressure right at the front, it would make sense in sensory being affected, its just the "how" that i am wondering about, as in 'what" specifically, that is running thru the cord down to the waist level got either damaged during the lifting of that compression or what exactly 'occured' during the surgery that caused THAT to even BE there ONLY post op, and not pre op symptoms. and THAT one thing/impact just very much 'should be' in the intra notes too since the monitoring covers both the motor and the sensory changes.

    but given your actual pre op and post op symptoms, you really DO need to find out, if you can, ask that NS what specific area of your cord would have to have been affected in order for you to have the really odd area of numbness that with cord injury, just 'usually' starts right below or at the level of impact/your surgical area and not having such a wide area of totally 'normal' skin surface from the injury level THEN suddenly everything goes numb, and on both sides at that? and you also stated NO bowel or bladder issues either, true?? i just do not think that this is 'only' because of actual swelling. just my own opinion, but i am not an NS either. but i would think that overall "swelling" should be down by now, ya know? it is also possible where that radiologist stated where that high signal intensity appeared to be myelopathy, just could also have been at least some level of actual myelomalacia taking place too. they can tend to appear the same as in high signal intensity upon MRI. just another possible. but you still very much could have suffered myelopathy too just considering the impact OF compression. the signals do not change within a spinal cord without something causeing it, its just a matter of what got generated BY it.

    do you know if during that surgery, the NS was planning on clearing the c 8 level stenosis? this was stated as being between your c 7 and t 1? if he didn't, then he most certainly 'hit' that c 8 nerve on the one side based upon the numb pinkie and the severe pain in that ring finger too? when a nerve gets 'hit' or damaged it hurts like heck in recovery(you just wake up with very real pain that you did NOT at all have before). and that side of the ring finger that lies closest to the pinkie is ALSO innervated by that same c 8 nerve as the full pinkie. the other side of that ring finger is innervated by the median nerve. are you having ANY problems with movement, like your fine motor functions mostly in the area of the thumb and forefinger on that very same hand? that is where the fine motor function of that c 8 nerve just also innervate. the sensory and fine motor functions when it comes to the c spine nerves run VERY strangely and not at all on the same exact nerves. if you are having any problems with thumb rotation or any real mechanical issues, that fine motor aspect also was invloved too. my own c 8 got just slammed with the most damage during my surgery(as far as the 'loss of fine motor functions went anyways and some sensory too), but that was also one of those 'expected' things?
    there 'should be' a record in the intra notes on THAT particular change in status too.

    i would just be makeing that good list of questions to ask that NS when you see him, is it THIS upcomming monday? and make certain that you just DO get answers from him as well to every single one. and write down those answers too. you just DO have every right to know, from him, what you are dealing with here. and to also find out what 'could be' there in the rest of the spinal as well. you just DO have alsot of other issues up in that c spine that will more than likely need some levels of surgical intervention down the road. i am just kind of suprised that he did not do at least the level avbove that c 6-7 considering the stenosis and disc protrusion among other findings and that c 5 being already in every person just a much more small bone area for that cord to run thru too. and you also have a smaller than norm canal?(every c spine bone is actually different depending upon level of, with c 5 having the smallest opening in the middle than any other level) hopefully the other areas will behave themselves for a while and you can deal with that MUCH later than sooner. but just given what you had and what you have now going on, it WILL take quite some time for overall healing to fully take place(that pinkie just may also over time return to norm, it all depends, but WILL take time). anytime the cord is involved, things just DO take longer and you can also feel certain types of changes or neruo issues during this time too. i just kept track of all my insanity in journal form for me to know and so my NS would know too. good luck with the appt and getting that full MRI done too. considering what the c spine has going on, i would imagine the lumbar at least has some types of issues too. just the way things kinda go. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 04-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #9
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    hi marcia , its been a wild ride this last 2 months , after asking the doc for an mri of my complete back several times and getting turned down. i seeked anther ns , he did a complete mri of my back, he read it on thurs e 3-15 and he scheduled me for surgery the following monday ( this took some work this doc was 3 months out ) the pressure was still present and actually increased . the previous ns didnt remove any disc or spurs he actually stuffed ( his words not mine ) a small metal box inbetween the c6-7 vertibre. this increased the pressure on the cord . i am now 3 weeks post op from the second surgery and hoping for the best , however the numbness has not improved . my latest mri reports states that there is t2 hyperintensity within the cord c6-7 that is unchanged from the last report and likely reoresents an area of myelomalicia... Not good!
    followed up on the paper work request and discovered the first ns lost signal to both legs at 9.05 am during the surgery and they had not returned at close .
    coupled with the fact he didnt perform the disectomy or relieve the pressur on the cord leads me to believe he caused the damge to lower extremeties .
    thanks for listening you've been a great sounding board and helpful john

     
    Old 04-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #10
    feelbad
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    all i can say is WOW,omg wow. i cannot even believe that an actual real well trained NS could even DO THI TO any patient. have you contacted an actual malpractice attorney yet? if not, i would sooo be getting on THAT like ASAP. not only did this idiot NOT do "for you' what he stated pre op, he made soo many things so much worse and also KNEW he had lost signal and did not just stop that surgery to even see if that nerve recovered itself. the 'idea' OF even using that intra monitoring is it sets off an alarm of some type when an 'attempt" is made that could destroy nerve or could cause an 'event' to occuer, so at that point, the NS is supposed to STOP what he is "about to do" and try things a bit differently in his approach. that is WHY you even USE intra op monitoring for gods sake. it is simply a 'form' of more of an early warning system that in this case was obviouly ignored to the point of out and out negligence and ended up with you dealing with the hell you have had to go thru and possible losses. intra operative monitoring is done for very GOOD reasons, and not just as something for a neurophysiatrist to sit there during the surgery, ya know?

    just 'where" exactly did you see the part about when your legs lost signal? was this actually is the SURGEONS op notes or from the neurophysiatrists op notes? usually, and i have heard about this happening with other patients and this was the case in my surgery too, it can be more difficult to even get your hands on the actual "intra op monitoring op notes" made by that neuro phys who is doing the monitoring than it is from the surgeons actual op notes. do you know if you actually have TWO totally different sets of the op notes with one done BY the monitoring doc and the other the stupid NS? there just 'should be two' different sets of op notes when intra is even used. just make certain that the hosp DID give you the much more detailed in what occured 'within your body with nerves" actual op notes too.

    have you tried looking up this particular surgeon thru the AMA or any other types of sites where they DO show how many times a doc has been sued or had disciplinary actions placed against them for some stupid idiotic thing done to a patient? if this so called NS actually has a real practice and has been doing surgeries on anyone for any length of time, there would almost have to be at least 'something' in his record. what he did was simply soo stupid and even lacking basic common sense. god only knows where he went to med school or how many actual years were spent ONLY on neurosurgery training too. god i feel soo awful for all you have been thru john, seriously. this never ever should have happened to you.

    while there are some situations where damage may not be optional when just doing certain types of surgeries, esp on the spinal area and the brain, this does not sound like he even KNEW what in gods name TO DO in the first place and NEVER ever should have even attempted your surgery if it was over his head once he actually got inside and REALLY visualized with his own eyes more exactly what he was going to be dealing with(any MRI just does not really 'show' all the things pertinent to surgery, so it is not til they actually 'see it' that they even know whats truely needed). and any good surgeon KNOWS(or their ego should be in check with their own training anyway) their own limits of training too.. but not doing nothing BUT causeing damage to your cord and spinal nerves, and creating much more overall impact to an already kind of bad situation, and placing a 'box' in there???? what was that found out to actually be by the other surgeon? was this like a cage or an actual 'box" of some kind? it should also per law have to state in any op notes just exactly what was used or ESP anything actually permanently placed into any patient as well, so what this thing actually even 'is' should be, and better be in HIS actual op notes. but god john, that is a really really sick thing to 'do" to a patient.

    while i honestly felt that there was 'something" that simply was not at all right about this whole surgery and also allowing you to even be discharged that quickly, i NEVER ever imagined something THIS sick and absolutely insane having been done to you. i would not allow this man to touch my flippin dog, let alone a human being?

    so what does this other NS who THANK GOD you went to have to say about this whole thing? when any surgeon will not allow a follow up type of MRI after the patient is actually showing much worse not there pre op symptoms, something really just is soo not right there. it IS a big red flag that thankfully you headed and sought out another opinion john. you most definitely did the best possible thing for yourself. esp when an NS who is that booked out decides an almost immediate type of surgery is actually needed? it had to be a pretty bad situation in HIS eyes to even pop you in THAT quickly,ya know?

    i just hope things will eventually get better for you over this hopefully next year or so. i had alot of things change for the better even after that one year, so you just never really know how much true inner damage has been done til time passes. but PT does also help with certain things too. i am just so glad you went to this other surgeon john, or god only knows where you would even be physically right now. while your cord was definitely impacted, it will simply take some time to really see how much.

    but i definitely would try anything and everything to not allow this so called 'NS" to EVER be allowed to even touch another innocent patient(like sueing this idiot for malpractice/negligence). this just should NOT have happened with using intra op monitoring. please please DO keep me posted on things john. so glad you posted, but so sorry about all that has happened to you. marcia
    __________________
    3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
    11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
    9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

     
    Old 04-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #11
    jaze
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    Re: Acdf c-6-7

    hi marcia , yea i was as shocked as you , it is totally negligent what this ns did . i actually researched hm befor the surgery harvard under grad w/ honors and columbia med school , he came highly recommended , w about 15 years post grad experience .
    the metal box was a cage stuffed with bone marrow , apparently he wanted me to fuse in this state , the info came from the introp monitor notes , the ns notes did not mention the lost signal to the legs. i have contactacted a malpractice lawyer but really it is just a waiting game to see if my symptoms get better at this point i cant drive a car (cant feel the pedals ) which is key to me returning to work , let alone climb power poles ( i am a power lineman) .
    the new ns relly does'nt say much about the surgeon , its a small city and they know each other , one of the pa's in the new office actually had his surgery done by this quack . i really dont know what he was thinking. in my research i havent seen any complaints about him . but to send me home with out the ability to walk. ....it seemed to me he was embarassed and wanted me to disappear , to this day i actually havent seen or heard from him personally . it awas always a p.a or office personnel that would communicate with me . thanks again for the help i'll update as things improve ...optimistically ..john

     
    The following user gives a hug of support to jaze:
    rannch (04-11-2012)
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