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herefishy 02-04-2004 03:28 PM

Diagnosed borderline hypo?? Have test results
 
I have been diagnosed with borderline hypothyrodism. My pulse has been somewhat low for as long as I can remember. I take Zoloft(100mg) for depression and numerous BP meds. I am 64, male, and sleep 10 hrs. a night and wake up tired. I am usually constipated, have intermittent tingling and numbness in fingers, legs and neck, and use an electric blanket to keep from sleeping cold.. My symptoms are rather mild(or I am used to them) and I am so lucky not to have some of the symptoms that a lot of you suffer through!

My readings are:
T3 UPTAKE 0.78 0.66-1.27 TU
T4 3.8 5.0-12.0 UG/DL
FTI 5 6-12
TSH 6.39 0.38-4.70 MIU/ML
THYROXINE , FREE .78 .71-1.85 NG/DL
T3 FREE 2.7 2.3-4.2 PG.ML

Thyroid meds:

Synthroid .05MG Oct-Nov 2002 headaches and felt worse switched to

Armour 15MG Mar/Apr 2003 1/day
" 15MG May/Nov 2003 2/day felt bad and TSH didn't lower; quit taking them on my own. I THINK the meds made me feel worse that the symptoms. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am seeing my doctor on the 12th of Feb to discuss my options. Thanks for reading.

Bob

herefishy 02-05-2004 02:36 PM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
Hi OPALFIREJUCIKA,

Thanks for the quick and informative response. I have a lot of questions but let me start with a few and maybe it will clear up some of my confusion.

Are you saying my Free T3 is too low and or that Armour will increase T4 through the T3?

The Armour site say take 1 dose a day. Dr Mercola says twice a day AFTER breakfast and dinner. You say 2 a day before meals with water?

Why the decaff and where is that documented?

If I took 15MG twice a day for 6 mos. and TSH didn't lower and I felt worse instead of better is that indicative of anything?

Should I have antibody test done?

Please don't think I am questioning your answers; I just want to have some documentation for the dr.

Thanks again,

Bob

opalfire 02-05-2004 04:53 PM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
[QUOTE=herefishy]Hi OPALFIREJUCIKA,

Thanks for the quick and informative response. I have a lot of questions but let me start with a few and maybe it will clear up some of my confusion.

Are you saying my Free T3 is too low and or that Armour will increase T4 through the T3?

The Armour site say take 1 dose a day. Dr Mercola says twice a day AFTER breakfast and dinner. You say 2 a day before meals with water?

Why the decaff and where is that documented?

If I took 15MG twice a day for 6 mos. and TSH didn't lower and I felt worse instead of better is that indicative of anything?

Should I have antibody test done?

Please don't think I am questioning your answers; I just want to have some documentation for the dr.

Thanks again,

Bob[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Hi Bob.......
Your T4 will increase your T3 if you're not having a problem converting...some people do, hence the reason Armour is a good choice. Later, you may have to add Cytomel to increase your T3, if that becomes a problem. By the way, the reason you may have felt worse is because you're getting less of a dose than you need.
I stand corrected on when to take your Armour. Although the Armour site may state once a day, sometimes I wonder if they do that to make it look like it's easier to take, like Synthroid (all T4). But, in order to get a more even dosage, 1 tablet cut in half works better. Dr. Mercola suggests after meals so that you won't have too much of a high from each dose. However, be careful that you ALWAYS take it using the same method each time, otherwise you're going to have some really strange symptoms. If you think you'd do better after meals....do so! I'm just used to taking it before meals because I take time-release T3. There is a binding agent in the capsules that only slow release only. Meals would make it take even longer.
The decaffeination is in the book that Dr. Wilson wrote called "Wilson's Syndrome". You really don't want to try it out to see if it bothers you or not, unless you want to try a small amount of coffee. The racing heart part would scare you.....and not worth it! Dr. Wilson uses time-release T3 on the premise that it helps drive your Reverse T3 (RT3) down which is what causes the hypo symptoms, along with low temp, etc. Try to read up on the Wilson's Syndrome. You'll be surprised at what you'll find.
[I]If I took 15MG twice a day for 6 mos. and TSH didn't lower and I felt worse instead of better is that indicative of anything?[/I] The reason you felt worse is because you didn't increase your dosage as you should have been doing. Ideally, you should have had bloodwork every month, with your FT3 and FT4. Your TSH isn't important for anything other than to find out whether you're hypo or hyper. Once that's done, you won't need to redo that for months perhaps. In fact, once you're feeling good again, you'll notice that your TSH may go as low as below 1.
A antibody test is not a bad idea since often that's the reason your lab work will go up and down without reason. As your thyroid continues to fail, sometimes the lab work will go up and down and your medication will need to be adjusted accordingly. After the thyroid finally fails, you're lab work will become steady and you won't need to readjust.[/FONT][/COLOR]

dea4 02-05-2004 04:57 PM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
Hi, :wave:

Welcome to the boards.

Both your free numbers are too low, they should be mid to upper part of the range and your TSH is too high, I wouldn't call those numbers borderline, you are hypo.

Sometimes you have to try different meds to find what works for you. Meds will take 4 to 6 weeks to kick in and start to alleviate the symptoms, sometimes you may feel a bit worse at first, usually you have to give it a good 3 months on one med to see how it will work for you and then if after that time you still feel bad then you try another.

Any meds with T3 should be taken twice a day because T3 is short lived, last about 8 hours and this is the one that gives you energy. Armour has quite a bit of T3 and I doubt that you would need extra, you may need added T4 to balance it out. Synthetic hormones (ie Synthroid) is only T4 and the body converts it to T3, some people do not convert it well, and anyone with liver problems will not convert it or anyone that drinks a lot of alcohol or takes a lot of Tylenol will not convert it well because those things are metabolized by the liver and that is where the conversion takes place.

Thyroid meds are generally taken on an empty stomach with only water and then wait an hour to eat, however the time of day it is taken is important, they should be taken at the same time everyday so if you take it with food then take it with food every time, but this may inhibit the absorbsion and cause you to need a higher dose.

Keep us posted on how you are. :)

midwest1 02-05-2004 04:58 PM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
Nice to meet you, Bob.
My thought is that you are undermedicated. Your TSH is too high and your free Ts are too low. Thirty mgs is a very small dose of Armour. Do you have complicating heart problems that may be causing your doctor to be more conservative? I was started on 30 mgs, it was increased in six weeks to 45. Today, 3 months later, it was increased again to 60. Not that I can compare myself to you; just demonstrating that 30 was my starting dose and probably can't sustain anyone for the long haul.

Also, I was instructed to take my dose all at once, in the a.m. an hour before breakfast. I enjoy 12 oz of coffee after about 1/2 hour. This is working for me. Some people have a big "crash" in the p.m., because T3 is shorter acting, and this helps avoid the dip. But many have just as good luck taking it once.

And about Dr. Mercola... I think a lot of his information is useful and accurate. But many doctors who know about him think he's a little dippy, to be blunt. Most wouldn't be impressed by a printout from his website. If you want to take a printed reference that will be respected, take this one from the American Assn of Clinical Endocrinologists: [url="http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php"]http://www.aace.com/pub/tam2003/press.php[/url]
This shows how a TSH of 3 should be considered high and worthy of treatment.

girlygirly 02-06-2004 04:48 AM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
:wave:

I can't stand it when doctors say that someone is "borderline hypo" or has sub-clinical hypothyroidism. Either you have it or you don't. It's like your borderline pregnant!!! :rolleyes:

Has your doctor done any testing on your adrenals? I would seriously address this with him, just to rule it out.

When I started on Armour I took it once in the morning and by the afternoon I felt myself crashing so I did switch to taking it 2xs a day which seems to be working for me. So everyone is different. I think you quit on Armour too quickly...try to give it another chance.

As I state very often and I don't know if it falls on deaf ears or not since no one really has given me any feedback..... but your diet has to be examined to see if there are any changes that need to be made. Elimination of all processed foods and refined products is essential to improving your status. Supplementation is also very important since much of our soil is mineral and vitamin deficient. Nutrition is just as important as taking the correct thyroid med. They go hand in hand. At first it may seem to hard for people to cut out the junk but it is so worth it and after a while you look at the junk and cringe (at least I know I do!!!) :eek: A low-glycemic diet is what is recommended for hypothyroid patients. There is an excellent book called the New Glucose Revolution that explains this way of eating in detail. It is very similar to Dr.Phils lifestyle change diet book.

Good Luck.

mintchocolate 02-06-2004 05:15 AM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
Hi Bob,

Welcome to the boards. This board has been a key factor to my recovery. I feel soo good I have to pinch myself and know that is real.

I was dxed on Sept 2003 with a TSH of 3.0 and lots of hypo symptoms , started with synth 0.05 felt pretty decent, but the BF and depresssion were still there. I asked my doc to put me on Armour in Oct, she did 60 mg. I felt TERRIBLE, I got symptoms I never had, I had hyper and hypo symptoms, I stuck with the meds cause the BF and depression were gone. From mid Oct to mid Nov I felt sooo bad, but started realizing that the symptoms were sloooowly going away. My doc decided to keep me on Armour 60mg even though the lab said I was slightly hyper. In January all the symptoms were gone and I feel so good. I started having hypo symptoms at 13 and I am almost 44. My TSH is 0.004, but my doc says that some people need numbers that low to feel good, and since I don't have any hyper symptoms that is the correct dosage for me.

It was thru this board that I found out that some people get worse before they get better.

I take my pill first thing in the morning with water. While my body was adjusting to Armour, I reduced my caffeine intake to one cup a day in the morning (caffeine does not help when you have hyper symptoms). I drank lots of water to help deal with the hyper symptoms, and dressed in layers so when I felt too hot I could remove clothing. It was difficult to go thru this adjustment but it has been worth it! I feel better than when I was 25 years old.

Mintchoc

dea4 02-06-2004 07:36 AM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
[QUOTE=girlygirly]:wave:

I can't stand it when doctors say that someone is "borderline hypo" or has sub-clinical hypothyroidism. Either you have it or you don't. It's like your borderline pregnant!!! :rolleyes:


As I state very often and I don't know if it falls on deaf ears or not since no one really has given me any feedback.....
Good Luck.[/QUOTE]


Girly, loved that first statement, made me laugh, its so true.

I'll give you feedback on the diet issue....your right, all the processed foods these days are really bad for us and the better we eat the better we will feel, this is true for everyone not just people with thyroid issues. I have stayed away from sugar and white flours etc. for about 7 years because I'm hypoglycemic. There is another good book for anyone that suffers from low blood sugar, its called "The Low Blood Sugar Handbook" written by Ed and Patricia Krimmel. This is written by a hypoglycemic. A lot of people find that following a hypoglycemic diet is very helpful even if they don't have low blood sugar.

herefishy 02-07-2004 11:12 AM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
Thanks to all that responded. In fairness to my doctor I never complained about all these symptoms to any degree. My TSH was high and he said I would probably feel better if I lower it. I am taking quite a few meds for BP and arthritis and it took me quite a while to find a combination that I could tolerate and lower the BP. My tingling and numbness was diagnosed by a neurologist as a disease I didn't have and after trying Tegretol for a while(bad stuff) I decided to live with numbness etc. We never suspected it could be thyroid related. The same with the depression and constipation. We have an endo here in town but my doctor is willing to work with me and I have confidence in him.

I will ask him about the anti-bodies test, adrenal glands, and I will talk to him about taking higher levels of Armour. Also, when to get next blood work and what test to have done. Is there further questions I should ask?

Mintchocolate: when you said BF and depression were gone; what does BF stand for?

I see the dr. Thursday and will report back our conversation.

Thanks again,

Bob

dea4 02-08-2004 01:31 PM

Re: Diagnosed borderline hyo?? Have test results
 
BF most likely means brain fog.


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