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  • High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

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    Old 05-17-2004, 08:27 AM   #1
    hypodude
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    High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Hello all,

    I've posted about 2 weeks ago explaining my labs were "messed up". I am supposed to be Hypo but have a high T3 number, particularly total T3.

    I got some labs about a week ago and they were smilar to the labs I just got back this week. Last week, my Endo thought the lab might have messed up the tests due to the high T3 so he sent me for new labs just a week or two later. The new labs came back almost the same as last weeks numbers.

    Should I be concerned with this with regard to taking Synthroid because my T3 is already pretty high?

    Here's my old labs from a couple of weeks ago - (Taken April 13, 2004):

    Cortisol 13.3 mcg/dl Reference Range 4.3 - 22.4
    Prolactin - ABNORMAL HIGH - 18.8 - Reference Range 2.1 - 17.7

    TSH (3rd. Gen.) - ABNORMAL HIGH - 15.353 - Reference Range .4 - 5.5
    T4 FREE - .9 NORMAL LOW - Reference Range .8 - 1.8
    T3 FREE - 4.51 ABNORMAL HIGH - Reference Range 2.30 - 4.20
    T3 TOTAL - 1.92 ABNORMAL HIGH - Reference Range .70 - 1.79
    Thyroxine - 9.0 - NORMAL - Reference Range 4.5 - 12.0


    Here are my new labs taken a week or so ago (Taken May 7, 2004):

    TSH (3rd. Gen.) - ABNORMAL HIGH - 14.641 - Reference Range .40 - 5.5
    T4 FREE - NORMAL LOW - 1.0 - Reference Range .8 - 1.8
    T3 FREE - NORMAL - 3.66 - Reference Range 2.30 - 4.20
    T3 TOTAL - ABNORMAL HIGH - 1.96 - Reference Range .70 - 1.79
    Thyroxine - NORMAL - 9.8 - Reference Range 4.5 - 12.0

    Prolactin - ABNORMAL HIGH - 23.5 - Reference Range 2.1 - 17.7
    Testosterone - ABNORMAL LOW - 214.22 - Reference Range 241.00 - 827.00

    It looks like Im a hormone nightmare. I know the Prolactin can be due to HypO, but the Testosterone should not be. Also, if my TSH is way high and my T4 is normal low, how am I converting so much T4 into T3? Why would my Free and Total T3 numbers be so high if I were truly Hypo? Wouldn't taking Synthroid, which is T4, make even more T4 convert into T3 and push my T3 scores off the boards?

    Please provide some input as I am pretty lost at this point.

     
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    Old 05-17-2004, 09:55 AM   #2
    midwest1
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Dude...
    Have your doc investigate pituitary tumors. Don't take no for an answer!
    I don't want to scare you, but high prolactin, high TSH, and low T4 with high T3 are all signs of pituitary tumor.

    Here are some reasons for high T3 that might apply to you, from the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry:
    The TT3/TT4 ratio can be used to investigate Graves versus non-Graves hyperthyroidism. Specifically, a high TT3/TT4 ratio (>20 ng/g metric or >0.024 molar) suggests thyroidal stimulation characteristic of Graves' disease. [This seems to me the least likely of the possibilities in your case.]

    A high serum T3 is often seen with TSH-secreting pituitary tumors.

    A high serum T3 is often seen in thyroid hormone resistance syndromes that usually present without clinical hyperthyroidism.

    Serum T3 measurement is useful for investigating iodide deficiency (characterized by low T4/high T3). [This is also not probable in within the US.]

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 10:12 AM   #3
    hypodude
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    I've been trying to get "fixed" for a long time now and just don't think the "regular" hypo thing is my answer. I know symptoms can feel Hyper and Hypo to most, but in this case, my blood work shows me to be Hyper and Hypo at the same time - sort of - and that's just how I feel.

    Im always cranked up with anxiety and then exhausted. Im overweight with low body temp most of the time, yet need to crank up the AC as soon as it gets warm. I get dizzy, particularly after eating but my blood sugar is fine. I get periods of "ups" where it feels like Im buzzing around like I had too much caffeine and then drop like a rock so I can barely get out of bed. I just want to get the mood swings and all these other crappy things fixed already. I was originally suspecting something like a Pituitary Tumor after getting my labs back, but the doc seems to insist its pretty typical Hypo - yet as soon as I take Synthroid, I fly off the handle as if someone shot me up with Crystal Meth or something - even at the tiniest doses. As for the Prolactin, its pretty common to have Prolactin high for a man if HypO is suspected. The thing that gets me is the high T3 numbers.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 11:17 AM   #4
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Have you tried anything other than Synthroid? Try Unithroid or Levoxyl and see if you get the same feeling.
    Remember if your T4 is low and T3 high with high TSH your T4 is turning as much as it can to T3 to keep you going.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 11:44 AM   #5
    hypodude
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    My doc wont seem to prescibe anything else. I specifically asked him for Armour and he said no, take the Synthroid - even though I told him how crummy I felt when I took it. Im actually like afraid to take it now - it stinks. If this is something my body is supposed to have in it, why would I feel like such crap every time I take it? My doc thinks Im just nuts and my reactions are totally in my head.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 02:16 PM   #6
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    Smile Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Sounds like it is time for a new doc. That doc should be checking out what Midwest has posted. AND at least trying you on some other form of thyroid med. I know that lots of folks are happy on Synthroid, and that is fantastic. I wish I could take it cause I'd only have to be bothered with it once a day, but I can't. It made my hashi's symptoms worse. Not all of 'em, but I had the shakes and jitters so bad that I probably looked like I was on meth too. It scared me. To be honest, I'd rather have the hashi's symptoms. BUT now I'm on Armour 1 grain (equals 100mcg's of Synthroid, and I was only on 50) and I don't have those blasted shakes anymore, thank God. To be honest.....so far.......this Armour is just plain DULL, LOL. I can tell I need to increase my dosage, and I'm getting new bloodwork done this week before I increase to 90mgs. Armour made a difference with me, but if I hadn't had a doc willing to look into other options, where would I be?

    For your sake, get another opinion, and tell him about the pituitary possibility. Good luck.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 03:41 PM   #7
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Please ditch that dr and find another, he is not looking out for you, he isn't even treating you other than to treat you badly.
    Find another dr, check into the pituitary issue, ditch any dr that won't let you try anything other than synthroid.

    Good luck.

    Last edited by dea4; 05-17-2004 at 03:42 PM.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 06:23 PM   #8
    hypodude
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by midwest1

    It mentions that prolactin above 150-200 ng/ml indicates this condition. They're apparently using a different measuring unit than your test was done by - Your latest result would be equivalent to 235 ng/ml). .

    No, the numbers are in ng/ml for my Prolactin test. "Normal" Prolactin in men is supposed to be 2.1 - 17.7 ng/ml according to my blood test reference range. Mine was 23.5 mg/nl which is high for normal people but very low for a hormone producing tumor. According to that site:

    "A prolactin level of over 150-200 ng/ml is almost always due to a prolactin secreting pituitary adenoma. In all patients with suspected pituitary tumors, a complete pituitary hormone evaluation should be performed. This testing is especially important in patients with potentially large tumors who are likely to have some degree of pituitary failure (hypopituitarism). It is important to note that moderate elevations of prolactin (30 - 200 ng/ml) can occur as a result of several other causes, which must be excluded prior to invoking a pituitary tumor. The most common causes are listed below..." including HypO

    I appreciate all your help and input with this. I am very prone to anxiety attacks and Im starting to think myself sometimes that it could be all in my head, particularly in times of stress, which this is because I know Im stressing over this Thyroid issue.

    I would love to just "take a pill" and get straight. I totally hate that jittery, shaky feeling I seem to get with Synthroid. I will try to find another doc to maybe get some Armour or something else.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 07:52 PM   #9
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Hypodude, with the lab numbers that you posted here, IT AIN'T ALL IN YOUR HEAD! I'm glad you're going to try a different doc. Do what I did, and call ahead of time and ASK if they will treat with Armour thyroid or some other "natural" product. I know exactly what you mean about hating that "shaky" feeling that you had with Synthroid. Like I said, I had that with the Synthroid, and some others have had it too. That was my only real complaint with Synthroid, but it scared me so much that I was too paranoid to take it anymore, lol. If my hashi's is making me shake like a leaf in a tornado, then there is NO WAY I want to take a med that is going to make it worse. Anyway, please let us know how it turns out.

     
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    Old 05-17-2004, 08:52 PM   #10
    hypodude
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Renee,

    You were a real mess on Synthroid as well? Was Armour really like nothing in comparison to Synthroid for you? That sounds like my miracle drug if thats the case. I feel the same way with regard to symptoms. I get shaky and panicky at weird times out of nowhere throughout the day and always thought it was all in my head but was hoping it was due to Thyroid so it can be fixed. I was not diagnosed with Hashi's however.

    The solution Im looking for is more like Valium than something thats going to make me more shaky and the Synthroid seemed to really crank me up almost instantly. Docs all say its impossible for it to hit me so quick and basically referred me to the shrink.

    I did ask my doc before going to him if he prescribes Armour and he said yes when I first went to him (which is the reason I went to him in the first place), but he doesnt want to give it to me because of my high T3 numbers.

    Can I ask you Renee, were you prone to anxiety problems before getting treated? If so, did the Armour help that a lot?

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 10:53 PM   #11
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    I just want to mention that the prolactin range on the pituitary website is measured in nanograms per milliliter - Ng/Ml. Are you absolutely sure that your lab's range is not measured in nanograms per deciliter - Ng/Dl?
    If it is, your prolactin of 23.5 Ng/Dl is equal to 235 Ng/Ml, which would be at a level of concern, according to the pituitary org.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 11:32 PM   #12
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Hypodude,
    I think you should get an MRI done just to rule out Pituitary tumor. I have Thyroid Hormone Resistance which is high TSH, high T4 and high T3 and that's the first thing my Doctor ordered even so my prolactin levels were normal. Also I don't think you would benefit from Armour right now since your T3 is high already. You should try to switch from Synthroid to another brand and see if that makes a difference. I started with Levoxyl 50 mcg and it made me hyper. Now I'm taking Synthroid 100 mcg and Armour 1grain and I feel great. For some reason, bringing up my T4 dropped my T3 below the high end of the range and I'm able to take Armour now.

    Last edited by carneb; 05-17-2004 at 11:35 PM.

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 07:27 AM   #13
    hypodude
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Midwest, yes Im sure of my numbers....looking at my labs....it says:

    Prolactin 23.5 ng/mL Ref 2.1 - 17.7

    It also goes on to say below:

    Female Reference Interval:
    Premenopausal 2.8 - 29.2 ng/mL
    Post Menopausal 1.8 - 20.3 ng/mL

    Male Reference Interval 2.1 - 17.7 ng/mL

    ...and my Prolactin number is circled by the doc with a note that says "due to hypothyroid"

    Doc also went on to note to take only 1/2 of a 25 mcg Synthroid for 4 weeks and retest my numbers to see if there is a change. I told him how I felt about the Synthroid. He would really prefer me to be in the 50 - 88 mcg range for Synthroid but he knows Im sensitive to it.

    CARNE....

    What your doc did in my doc's philosophy. He thinks that if I can get my T4 up, my T3 will eventually level out but he wants me to take it slow till I get used to the Synthroid - if ever.

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 07:46 AM   #14
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    Re: High T3 associated with HypO??? New Labs...Someone please give me a hand with these.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by carneb
    For some reason, bringing up my T4 dropped my T3 below the high end of the range and I'm able to take Armour now.
    As I have said before......Low T4 with high T3 and high TSH can be due to your T4 converting as much as possible to T3 to keep you going.

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 12:05 PM   #15
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hypodude
    Renee,

    You were a real mess on Synthroid as well? Was Armour really like nothing in comparison to Synthroid for you? That sounds like my miracle drug if thats the case. I feel the same way with regard to symptoms. I get shaky and panicky at weird times out of nowhere throughout the day and always thought it was all in my head but was hoping it was due to Thyroid so it can be fixed. I was not diagnosed with Hashi's however.

    The solution Im looking for is more like Valium than something thats going to make me more shaky and the Synthroid seemed to really crank me up almost instantly. Docs all say its impossible for it to hit me so quick and basically referred me to the shrink.

    I did ask my doc before going to him if he prescribes Armour and he said yes when I first went to him (which is the reason I went to him in the first place), but he doesnt want to give it to me because of my high T3 numbers.

    Can I ask you Renee, were you prone to anxiety problems before getting treated? If so, did the Armour help that a lot?
    Well, hypodude, I know that we are all different, and I am thankful that there are several thyroid drugs on the market. But for me......I just couldn't handle the Synthroid. After that experience, I was pretty scared to try anything else. I have a hard time with a LOT of drugs. Boring ol' Benadryl almost killed me, for example, so I have to be careful. But there were a couple of other folks on here who didn't have good luck with Synthroid, but were able to take the Armour just fine. SO, I started taking it, and FOR ME, there is a world of difference. It actually calmed down, and got rid of my shakes/jitters, etc.

    I don't know how to answer your question about whether I'm prone to anxiety problems. I don't really know what that is, I guess. I thought that anxiety problems started with "worries" or "fears" or something like that and just kept building up until a person would have panic attacks, etc. If "that" is what you mean, I'd say no. BUT when I would have the shakes or jitters so bad that I couldn't hold the soap in the shower, or couldn't drink out of a cup or couldn't poor anything into a spoon, etc, then THAT would make me depressed or anxious. I dunno if that helps.

    But as others here have said........I don't know about Armour (alone) for you since you have the high T3. Hypodude, I sure hope that you are able to see a good doc about this, and PLEASE let us know how it all turns out!

     
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