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    Old 10-29-2004, 05:03 PM   #1
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    Unhappy Help needed from Meep or someone

    To refresh,

    Taken in late June of 2004
    My Free T4 was 1.5 with the normal range being .8-1.8
    My TSH was 5.38 with the normal range being .5-2.5

    Taken in September of 2004
    My Free T3 was 2.9 with the normal range being 2.0-4.9

    I started out on the generic version of Armour Thyroid on September 9 of this year. I switched over to the brand name version of Armour Thyroid on October 7. I've been taking 120 mg of Armour Thyroid since October 9.

    I still don't feel any better at all. I'm extremely exhausted all the time and have been that way for about a year now. I also can't concentrate or focus well, and my short term memory isn't good.

    My doctor wanted to taper me off of my thyroid medication since it hasn't helped me. He said that 120 mg of Armour is a full dose of thyroid replacement. He's afraid that production of my own thyroid could be shut down if I stay on the medication for too long. Then my doctor noticed that I haven't been tested for Thyroid Antibodies, so I'm going to be having that test done. Also, I'm going to have my Free T3 and TSH tested again. So I'm going to stay on my thyroid medication right now until the tests come back. If Thyroid Antibodies are detected, would that mean my Thyroid medication should be adjusted?

    Also, my Cortisol saliva test came back normal. I told the doctor how I've been under a lot of stress for several years now. So he gave me something natural called Mil Adregen, which is similar to Isocort. Do you think this could help with my tiredness even though my Cortisol results were in the normal range? Thanks.

     
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    Old 10-30-2004, 03:13 PM   #2
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Never accept "normal" as a test result. All too often, they are in range or "normal" but aproblem pattern can be seen or they are on the edge of being in range. Always get the numbers and once you get them, post them.

    I would like to see Free T3, Free T4 and TSH all taken at the same tim in the morning before you take your meds. That is the only way to be sure you get an accurate reading on Free T3 and Free T4. Seeing them all at once taken at the same time would be informative.

    As for 120mg being a full replacemnt dose, That is not necessarily true. Armour is available in larger doses than that, and wouln't be if 120 was a "full replacement dose". For some people, 120mg is plenty. For me, it is not near enough. I have taken as much as 240mg daily, and I am not a large person. At the time I was taking 240mg, I was 5'9" and 170lbs. I now take the equivalent of 150mg of Armour (100mcg Unithroid and 90mg Armour), but since I take two meds rather than just Armour, the comparison isn't apples to apples. I currently weigh in at about 150lbs. The weight loss was due to better eating habits as my dose has remained close to the same for two years, and the weight only dropped over the last year after paying more attention to what I stuff in my mouth.

    Next problem. If your doctor is afraid of shutting down yourthyroid gland, he shouldn't be. Your TSH would not be elevated if your thyroid gland was able to keep up with the needs of your body, so his theory there is a bit misguided.
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    Old 10-30-2004, 10:06 PM   #3
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Thanks Meep,
    Here's the results of my Cortisol saliva test.

    My Cortisol am was 16.10 with a normal range of 13-23
    My Cortsiol pm was 1.10 with a normal range of 1-3

    Even though the Cortisol is in the normal range, is it possible that the level of Cortisol isn't enough to handle the high stress that I go through each day? Do you think that by taking Mil Adregen(smiliar to Isocort), that might help with my extreme tiredness?

    What is Unithroid? By the way, I'm about the same height and weight as you. By continuing to take Armour, could my T4 level get to high eventually since my Free T4 wasn't low to begin with?

    Well I think my doctor is concerned that the Armour will suppress my TSH level pretty low if I stay on it much longer. Then I would be stuck on the thyroid medication for the rest of my life even though it hasn't helped me. He thought my Free T3 level of 2.9 with the normal range being 2.0-4.9 (taken in September before going on thyroid medication)was a good level. But a bunch of people from the boards have told me that level is too low.

     
    Old 10-31-2004, 12:53 AM   #4
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Thanks Meep,
    Here's the results of my Cortisol saliva test.

    My Cortisol am was 16.10 with a normal range of 13-23
    My Cortsiol pm was 1.10 with a normal range of 1-3

    Even though the Cortisol is in the normal range, is it possible that the level of Cortisol isn't enough to handle the high stress that I go through each day? Do you think that by taking Mil Adregen(smiliar to Isocort), that might help with my extreme tiredness?
    If you are under a great deal of stress, you would expect to see Cortisol at the high end of those lab ranges, if everything is working the way it should. Your AM should have been above 18 andthe PM should have been above 2 at a minimum to reflect a high stress level, so I have to disagree with your doc on that.

    The Mil Adregen might be helpful, since it is designed to nourish the adrenal glands so that they can better respond to stress adn make Cortisol as needed. Also, if you haven't read Adrenal Fatigue: 21st Century Stress Syndrome, then you should get your hands on a copy. If not, at least look up their website and do some reading.

    Quote:
    What is Unithroid?
    Unithroid is a synthetic T4 med like Synthroid, but made by another manufacturer. Unithroid has had FAR fewer potency probelms over the years than any other synthetic, thus the reason I prefer it over the alternatives (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, etc).

    Quote:
    By the way, I'm about the same height and weight as you. By continuing to take Armour, could my T4 level get to high eventually since my Free T4 wasn't low to begin with?
    As your TSH drops, your thyroid gland will take a rest and not have to work so hard, so your T4 level will stabilize. Most people will have a TSH that is almost, if not completely undetectable before T4 and/or T3 go too high.

    Quote:
    Well I think my doctor is concerned that the Armour will suppress my TSH level pretty low if I stay on it much longer. Then I would be stuck on the thyroid medication for the rest of my life even though it hasn't helped me.
    I HAVE to have my TSH below .01 (.01 is not a typo!) before my T3 and T4 get high enough to alleviate my symptoms, and there are many others like me that have the same need. So my thyroid gland is suppressed--I feel healthier in EVERY aspect of my life because the hormones that count (T3 and T4) are where they should be. Until you get T3 and T4 optimized, you can't tell if the thyroid meds were truly helpful or not, and that takes time.

    Knowing that I have to take thyroid pills for the rest of my life does not bother me, because without them I had no life, anyways. If I ever start to think that taking my meds is inconvenient or bad, all I have to do is think about frequent headaches, more frequen illnesses, more body aches and pains, overwhelming fatige, sleeping 14 hours a day and still being tired all the time, and how little I had to live for, and I will GLADLY take my multiple pills every day. At least this way, I have a quality life, since I am more healthy at 34 than I was at 18, and I was a pretty healthy teen, though I had some mild hypo symptoms then, too.


    Quote:
    He thought my Free T3 level of 2.9 with the normal range being 2.0-4.9 (taken in September before going on thyroid medication)was a good level. But a bunch of people from the boards have told me that level is too low.
    I have to agree somewhat with the other members on the board.at the very least, you would want to see your Free T3 at 3.5 or so, but probably higher. on that scale, I require my Free T3 to be at 4.0 to feel my best.

    With Free T4 is a similar thing. You would want to aim for at least 1.3, but I find that I feel my best if it is at 1.5 or so.

    TSH? TSH is not a thyroid hormone. It is manufactured by the pituitary gland in response to TRH. TRH is manufactured by the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus measures T3 and T4 in your blood and makes TRH to tell the pituitary to tell the thyroid gland how much thyroid hormone to make. TSH varies quite a bit. The half-life of TSH is about 45 minutes, and TSH is released only for a short period of time each night right before you fall asleep. So, not only is TSH not a stable hormone, to begin with, but it is a very indirect measure of what the body thinks the thyroid gland should be doing. Lots of room for error, there, wouldn't you think? Why don't they teach that in Med School? Good question. The answer is that the medical schools are funded at least in part by pharmaceutical companies that stand to lose too much money if the "normal" way of doing things is disrupted by change. At least that's my theory.

    I will get off of my soapbox, now.
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    Old 10-31-2004, 02:37 PM   #5
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Meep,
    So are you saying that something isn't working right in my body since my Cortisol level wasn't higher to show the high amount of stress I go through? What do you think could be wrong?

    Well I certainly wouldn't mind taking thyroid pills for the rest of my life if they helped me feel better. It's just very frustrating cause I've been taking thyroid medication since September 9 and I thought I'd feel at least a little better by now. I'm just so exhausted. I can't do much of anything.

    I'm going to be getting that Thyroid Antibodies test done in about a week. If the test shows I have an abnormal amount of Thyroid Antibodies, would that affect the Thyroid medication from not working as well?

     
    Old 10-31-2004, 03:07 PM   #6
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Meep,
    So are you saying that something isn't working right in my body since my Cortisol level wasn't higher to show the high amount of stress I go through? What do you think could be wrong?
    After extended periods of stress, the adrenal glands can't produce enough Cortisol to help you deal with the stress anymore. The result is fatigue, more frequent illness, and other symptoms, similar to hypothyroidism and sometimes similar to hypERthyroidism as well..

    Quote:
    Well I certainly wouldn't mind taking thyroid pills for the rest of my life if they helped me feel better. It's just very frustrating cause I've been taking thyroid medication since September 9 and I thought I'd feel at least a little better by now. I'm just so exhausted. I can't do much of anything.

    I understand. I have been there, done that, got a whole closet full of T-shirts. The problem is that adding thyroid meds is a stressful thing to your body to start with. IF you are already very stressed, and your adrenals aren't keeping up with it, then adding thyroid meds will NOT improve the situation. Get the adrenals treated or take steps to reduce the stress in your life or better deal with it or you will have a very hard time adjusting to the thyroid meds, if you are able to at all.

    The thyroid meds are probably helping, BUT the extra stress they are causing as you adjust is causing more symptoms, that are similar to hypothyroidism to start out with, thus your perception that the meds are simply doing nothing.
    Perhaps you shoudl be on a lower dose and work up slowly, That seems to help more than suddenly starting them.

    Look into a book called Adrenal Fatigue: 21st Century Stress Syndrome by Dr. James L. Wilson. It would be VERY educational to you on the adrenal side of it, though I don't remember if the book mentions thyroid treatment at all.

    Another thing to consider is that some people respond quickly to thyroid meds, while most of us respond VERY slowly. If you only started on September 9, then you have NOT given them enough time to tell. This isn't like taking an aspirin for a headache and the pain goes away. This is a much more gradual and subtle process for most of us.

    Quote:
    I'm going to be getting that Thyroid Antibodies test done in about a week. If the test shows I have an abnormal amount of Thyroid Antibodies, would that affect the Thyroid medication from not working as well?
    It wouldn't necessarily change the effect of the meds, BUT the antibodies often come with symptoms, too. Giving your thyroid meds time to work will make a difference, because the thyroid gland won't be workign as hard, adn then will start to shrink some giving the antibodies less to attack, and therefore less symptomatic, as well.

    If your antibody count is elevated, then you need to get on some Selenium, too. Selenium has been shown to reduce antibody counts and the symptoms associated with them. For men, 200mcg a day long-term is OK, women need about half of that long-term, typically.
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    Last edited by Meep; 10-31-2004 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Severe mistypes... :)

     
    Old 10-31-2004, 03:27 PM   #7
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Meep,
    If my body isn't able to produce enough Cortisol to help me deal with the high stress, how come the Cortisol level wasn't lower on my saliva test? Well I started taking Mil Adregen last Thursday, so hopefully that will start to help some soon. How long do you think it might take until it starts to help? It's hard not to have stress right now when I'm so exhausted, I can't concentrate well, short-term memory isn't good. I barely have enough energy to do little things such as taking a shower.

    Well I don't think I have more symptoms since starting the thyroid medication. I just haven't felt anything at all. What if my TSH gets suppressed, and I still don't feel well?

     
    Old 10-31-2004, 07:34 PM   #8
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Meep,
    If my body isn't able to produce enough Cortisol to help me deal with the high stress, how come the Cortisol level wasn't lower on my saliva test?
    The lab ranges for Cortisol tests are even more wrong than the ones for thyroid tests. Maybe it wasn't "low" but it was supposed to be ELEVATED due to stress. Instead, it came out lower than what a truly healthy person who isn't very stressed should have.

    Quote:
    Well I started taking Mil Adregen last Thursday, so hopefully that will start to help some soon. How long do you think it might take until it starts to help?
    I ma not sure.. Hopefully, you'll see a littel increase in energy and overall wellbeing with a week or so, but don't expect miracles. IT will be a slow and gradual thing. IT helps to keep a symptom journal. Write down a list of your symptoms for the day every night before bed (or at least once a week), and then don't look at what you wrote until at least a month later. You will find that even though you might not notice a difference from day to day, you will notice a difference when you compare to where you were a month ago. This applies to thyroid and adrenal symptoms both.

    Quote:
    It's hard not to have stress right now when I'm so exhausted, I can't concentrate well, short-term memory isn't good. I barely have enough energy to do little things such as taking a shower.
    Trust me, I do understand. I have been there with adrenal fatigue and thyroid disease as well. It wasn't fun to have to sleep 14 hours a day just to function at a minimal level. It wasn't fun to crawl out of bed like a stiff old man every morning at 30 years old. It wasnt' fun to get sick all the time. It wasn't fun to watch life pass me by becasue I had no energy, no motivation, adn no ability to do anything if I HAD motivation.

    Quote:
    Well I don't think I have more symptoms since starting the thyroid medication. I just haven't felt anything at all.
    That can be a good sign. refer to my advice about a symptom journal above.

    Quote:
    What if my TSH gets suppressed, and I still don't feel well
    Don't worry about TSH, worry about getting your life back. Prioritize. Which is more important? Fitting a cookie-cutter diagnosis based on a hormon that is NEVER stable in your blood (TSH is VERY unstable), or feeling well and having a life, again?
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    Old 11-01-2004, 09:10 PM   #9
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Meep,
    So based on my Cortisol results and my description of being stressed out, you think I'm suffering from adrenal problems? I'm just double checking again to make sure. For the saliva test, what do you think would be a more accurate normal range?

    I take one Mil Adregen pill, three different times a day. I assume I should not take Mil Adregen within 4 hours of taking my Thyroid medication? Do you think it matters if I eat anything or take a multi-vitamin, other supplements, etc. close to the time I take Mil Adregen?

    I'll start that journal like you said. The bottle of Mil Adregen is a 40 day supply. So I hope to feel somewhat of an increase in energy before the bottle is done.

    I believe I may have digestion problems cause I have bad gas and bloating. Also, my stomach makes really loud moans and grumbles various times throughout the day and night. I don't know of anyone else who has this problem of constant loud stomach rumbling noises. If I do have a problem with digestion, could that effect the thyroid medication from not working as well?

    I read that chiropractors can help with people that are suffering from extreme tiredness? How would they be able to help?

    I think it was you that had said before that chronic fatigue syndrome is given as a diagnosis when the doctor can't find what is wrong with the patient? I was just wondering what disorder/s a person labeled as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome could possible have? I assume a thyroid disorder, adrenal gland problems, etc.

    Well I'm just worried that when I get my TSH retested and if it's below 2.0, my doctor might take me off the thyroid medication. How did you find out so much info about the Thyroid? Also, was your doc really knowledgeable about the thyroid, or did you mention things to him?

    Sorry for so many questions.

     
    Old 11-02-2004, 09:27 AM   #10
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Meep,
    So based on my Cortisol results and my description of being stressed out, you think I'm suffering from adrenal problems? I'm just double checking again to make sure. For the saliva test, what do you think would be a more accurate normal range?
    A more accurate "normal" range would be higher for sure... I would guess 15-25 for the am test and 1.3-4 for the pm test, but that is ONLY a guess. I woud lhave to see statistics lab results and symptoms lists for thousands of people from all walks of life to make an accurate estimation of what normal is.

    Based on the level of stress you describe, if you had healthy adrenal glands, your Cortisol results would have been near the top of even my adjusted levels or above range.

    Quote:
    I take one Mil Adregen pill, three different times a day. I assume I should not take Mil Adregen within 4 hours of taking my Thyroid medication? Do you think it matters if I eat anything or take a multi-vitamin, other supplements, etc. close to the time I take Mil Adregen?
    I don't see anything in the ingredients of that Mil Adregen that would make you need to wait 4 hours from when you take your thyroid meds. One hour before or two hours after the thyroid meds would be plenty of time.

    As for other supplements and vitamins near the time you take the Mil Adregen, I can't say, toug I doubt there would be interference from much of anything. I would avoid Calcium, and aluminum, near any meds, because of their acid-reducing effeccts woudl make things digest more slowly, adn might reduce absorbtion of the nutrients. That is just an opinion, though.

    Quote:
    I'll start that journal like you said. The bottle of Mil Adregen is a 40 day supply. So I hope to feel somewhat of an increase in energy before the bottle is done.
    I hope it helps. I know that providing the glands with the raw materials to properly do their work can make a big difference. Hang in there and let's see!

    Quote:
    I believe I may have digestion problems cause I have bad gas and bloating. Also, my stomach makes really loud moans and grumbles various times throughout the day and night. I don't know of anyone else who has this problem of constant loud stomach rumbling noises. If I do have a problem with digestion, could that effect the thyroid medication from not working as well?
    Digestive problems like that are common when we are hypothyroid, but could indicate a food allergy (are you gluten or lactose intolerant, perhaps?)

    Yes, digestive problems could cause absorbtion problems especially if food hangs around in your stomach longer than expected, then you take the meds. You can work around that by dissolving your thyroid meds under your tongue so that the capillaries there absorb much of the thyroid hormone, rather than the lining of your stomach, where food could cause and absorbtion problem.

    Quote:
    I read that chiropractors can help with people that are suffering from extreme tiredness? How would they be able to help?
    Good question. Sometimes things tht don't seem like they would help make a big difference. I practice self-chiropractic (don't try this at home, kids!) to keep my neck and spine in alignment. It helps with headaches and I feel more loose and relaxed that way. Knowing that, I can only imagine what a Chiropractor could do, who is actually trained to know what and where to adjust the most effectively.

    Quote:
    I think it was you that had said before that chronic fatigue syndrome is given as a diagnosis when the doctor can't find what is wrong with the patient?
    I just did a gogle search on "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome causes" (without the quotes) and SEVERAL of the first page results say something like "No one is certain about what causes CFS" or "No one is certain about what causes CFS".

    I have to disagree with those pages. Teh problem lies with doctors that give up when the results they expect to see don't align with what defines a clear-cut diagnosis. They give up rather than digging deeper.

    Quote:
    I was just wondering what disorder/s a person labeled as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome could possible have? I assume a thyroid disorder, adrenal gland problems, etc.
    Exactly. Thyroid, Adrenal fatigue, Lyme Disease, pituitary disorders, various other hormonal imbalances, nutritional deficiencies, C pneumoniae, anemia (iron deficiency-VERY rare in men), pernicious anemia (Vitamin B12 deficiency), are a few of the possibilities.

    The book, From Fatigued to Fantastic is a GREAT source for reading up on causes of CFS and how to treat them.

    Quote:
    Well I'm just worried that when I get my TSH retested and if it's below 2.0, my doctor might take me off the thyroid medication.
    I don't think your doc would be wise to do that. That would be like a diabetic having his insulin taken away because his blood sugar measured OK. TSH being below 2 would indicate that the meds are WORKING and should not be stopped, in my opinion.

    Quote:
    How did you find out so much info about the Thyroid?
    Lots and lots of reading and research. I ALWAYS research any health problem I have and tell myself that I want to be a doctor when I grow up. I started out on another popular message board, and the links posted there and the information that people shared there became a springboard for my knowledge. I later discovered Healthboards and becase a part of this community, too, where I have also learned things. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and then don't be afraid to do some research on your own to see of the answers are what will work for you.

    Quote:
    Also, was your doc really knowledgeable about the thyroid, or did you mention things to him?
    My doc was knowledgeable, but like I said, I research alot wehn it comes to my health. When I asked the doc for the blood tests, and we started discussing the symptoms of hypo, I had an article from a website (written by a Dr. Michael B. Schachter -look it up for a good simple article to share with people who don't understand what you are going through) printed that was in my pocket. It was like he was reading from that piece of paper even though I never had to pull it out. I was SO relieved just to know that I had someone on my side who understood the symptoms I was experiencing and took them seriously.

    Since then, I have learned MUCH more and he has asked me on several occasions how I have learned so much. I just tell him that I read alot and cross-reference what I find on the internet so that I can verify that what I am reading is valid before I commit it to memory.

    Quote:
    Sorry for so many questions.
    Don't be sorry for asking questions. Your health is important, adn if I didn't want to be here answering questions, I would log off find something else to do.

    Sometimes I feel like a health "evangelist". I LOVE to share the good news that there is hope for your fatigued body, and that over time you actually can eradicate the evil symptoms.
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    Last edited by Meep; 11-02-2004 at 09:29 AM.

     
    Old 11-02-2004, 02:26 PM   #11
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Thanks for the info Meep,
    I'm going to be doing a six hour urine test soon to measure the amount of Mercury in my body. I've read about how Mercury from silver fillings can cause all sorts of symptoms and illnesses. I was wondering if you believe that to be true?

    Could you tell me the correct way to dissolve the Armour Thyroid under my tongue? I guess that sounds like a stupid question. lol I've just never dissolved anything under my tongue before. Should I put all four pills at once under my tongue? I tried dissolving two Armour at a time under my tongue today. It took a while and I think the tip of my tongue touched the pills some, and it was hard to tell when they were finally dissolved cause they are so little. If you dissolve the medication, what is the amount of time you should wait until you eat something, and if you've eaten something, how long should you wait to dissolve the medication?

    If I do have abosorbtion problems with my stomach and I swallow the medication on a completely empty stomach(haven't eaten in several hours), is there still a chance that the medication won't be absorbed well?

    I haven't been tested for gluten intolerance, leaky gut syndrome, etc. yet. I'm going to see if I can get tested for those the next time I see the doc. Cause I read that gluten intolerance and leaky gut can cause fatigue and problems with concentration and memory. I don't think I have lactose intolerance cause I don't drink milk. I do eat ice cream sometimes though and the cheese on pizza.

    Can a complete blood test show if a person has an anemia such as Iron or B12? I heard that Ferritin should also be checked. What other tests do you suggest I get done?

     
    Old 11-02-2004, 02:54 PM   #12
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Thanks for the info Meep,
    I'm going to be doing a six hour urine test soon to measure the amount of Mercury in my body. I've read about how Mercury from silver fillings can cause all sorts of symptoms and illnesses. I was wondering if you believe that to be true?
    I think mercury poisoning can be a big problem, and it might be well worth checking into, thoug I dont 'know much about it. A local doc is doing a detoxification lecture in a few weeks, and I bet that will come up, there.

    Quote:
    Could you tell me the correct way to dissolve the Armour Thyroid under my tongue? I guess that sounds like a stupid question. lol I've just never dissolved anything under my tongue before. Should I put all four pills at once under my tongue? I tried dissolving two Armour at a time under my tongue today. It took a while and I think the tip of my tongue touched the pills some, and it was hard to tell when they were finally dissolved cause they are so little. If you dissolve the medication, what is the amount of time you should wait until you eat something, and if you've eaten something, how long should you wait to dissolve the medication?
    I usually break mine up a little with my teeth, then let them dissolve, but some do just as you did. Touching it with the tip of your tongue isn't a bad thing to do. I try to avoid it, but I doubt it causes any problems.

    I like to wait 30 minutes before or after I eat, to be safe, but I dont' think it is critical, either. The 30 minutes give it plenty of time to completely dissolve and be gone. I usually don't drink anything during those 30 minutes, either, probaby just my own overzealous caution, though.

    [quoteIf I do have abosorbtion problems with my stomach and I swallow the medication on a completely empty stomach(haven't eaten in several hours), is there still a chance that the medication won't be absorbed well?[/quote]

    MAybe and maybe not. I don't know the answer to that.

    Quote:
    I haven't been tested for gluten intolerance, leaky gut syndrome, etc. yet. I'm going to see if I can get tested for those the next time I see the doc. Cause I read that gluten intolerance and leaky gut can cause fatigue and problems with concentration and memory. I don't think I have lactose intolerance cause I don't drink milk. I do eat ice cream sometimes though and the cheese on pizza.
    It sounds like you will be on top of things at your next visit.

    Quote:
    Can a complete blood test show if a person has an anemia such as Iron or B12? I heard that Ferritin should also be checked.
    There are specific tests for B12 that can be revealing, and tests for Iron and hemoglobin and red blood cell counts as well as Ferritin can be revealing for iron deficiency.

    Quote:
    What other tests do you suggest I get done?
    My favorite way to cover things is to order the VIP Plus Profile II from HealthcheckUSA. It is the best deal I have found for a complete workup and includes all these tests: for about $125. I think it should be a requirement for your doc to run all these at least once a year:

    NEUTROPHILS
    LYMPHOCYTES
    MONOCYTES
    EOSINOPHILS
    BASOPHILS
    WBC
    RBC
    HGB
    HCT
    MCV
    MCH
    MCHC
    PLATELET COUNT
    ALT (SGPT)
    ALBUMIN
    GLOBULIN
    ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE
    AST (SGOT)
    BUN
    CALCIUM


    CREATININE
    GGT
    GLUCOSE
    IRON
    FERRITIN
    LDH
    PHOSPHORUS
    POTASSIUM
    SODIUM
    CHLORIDE
    BICARBONATE
    TOTAL BILIRUBIN
    A/G RATIO
    TOTAL PROTEIN
    URIC ACID
    HEMOLYTIC SRM APPEAR
    LIPEMIC SRM APPEAR
    ICTERIC SRM APPEAR
    CHOLESTEROL
    HDL CHOLESTEROL
    CHOL/HDL RATIO
    LDL CHOLESTEROL
    LDL/HDL RATIO
    VLDL, CALCULATED
    TRIGLYCERIDES
    FREE THYROXINE (FT4)
    THYROID STIM. HORMONE (TSH)
    TRIIODOTHYRONINE FREE (FT3)
    __________________
    Danny

    I am not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV...

     
    Old 11-11-2004, 08:45 AM   #13
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Meep,
    I had my Free T3 and TSH retested this week. I also had thyroid antibodies done.
    My Free T3 was 4.0 with a normal range of 2.0-4.9
    My TSH was .06 with a normal range of .30-3.0
    Both of the thyroid antibodies were negative.

    I'm still feeling exhausted, my concentration is off, and my short-term memory isn't good. My doctor is tapering me off of the thyroid medication slowly since it hasn't helped. I'm supposed to cut back from 120 mg to 90 mg. I'll take 90 mg for 10 days, and then cut back to 60 mg, and I do this until I'm completely off of the medication.

    I don't understand why the medication hasn't helped me? I know that I haven't slept well at all in the last three weeks cause I've been worrying so much that I'm never going to get better. So I think that it may be hard to even tell if the Armour has been working in the last three weeks, since my lack of sleep could be contributing to my fatigue also?

    I was wondering if the normal ranges for other lab tests could be flawed, such as a complete blood count? I was concerned about my hemoglobin level and my hematocrit level. Cause on a blood test that I had done in July, my hemoglobin was 16.6 and the normal range was 13.2-17.1 Also, my hematocrit level was 49.1 and the normal range was 38.5-50% I thought my levels sounded kinda high cause they were in the upper level of the normal range? I told my current doctor that, and he's going to have a iron panel done for me.

    I had a Candida blood test done a few months ago. The result came back within the normal range. Yesterday, I asked my doctor if the blood test for Candida is accurate, and he said it's not real accurate. So he gave me a trial dose of an anti-fungal medication to see if it helps me. I don't know why he didn't suggest this medication a few months back. It seems like I have to ask for some tests and repeat myself a lot. My doctor is pretty old. He ends up asking some questions that he already asked at previous appointments.

     
    Old 11-11-2004, 10:01 AM   #14
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Concerned Male
    Meep,
    I had my Free T3 and TSH retested this week. I also had thyroid antibodies done.
    My Free T3 was 4.0 with a normal range of 2.0-4.9
    My TSH was .06 with a normal range of .30-3.0
    Both of the thyroid antibodies were negative.
    Sounds pretty god, except I like to see Free T4 with it too. Since the med you are taking has both, it is important to test both. Also, to be accurate, I need to know when you took your meds in relation to when the blood was drawn, and what time the blood was drawn, if possible.

    If you have read many of my recent tirades, you know that I place no stock in the TSH test, other than as a curiousity if it is elevated. Yours being that low is not a concern as long as Free T3 and Free T4 are within the lab ranges.

    Quote:
    I'm still feeling exhausted, my concentration is off, and my short-term memory isn't good. My doctor is tapering me off of the thyroid medication slowly since it hasn't helped. I'm supposed to cut back from 120 mg to 90 mg. I'll take 90 mg for 10 days, and then cut back to 60 mg, and I do this until I'm completely off of the medication.
    If your doctor says so, taper it off, but I haven't seen enough definitive lab results to make a clear judgement, and I know it took a year and a half of ups and downs on my Armour dose before I was feeling close to right, then I still dropped my Armour some and added in some Unithroid to make it balance and get the rest of my thyroid symptoms taken care of. After ading the Unithroid, it still took over a year of tweaking to get my levesl where I wanted them. I am proof that it takes time for some of us.

    Quote:
    I don't understand why the medication hasn't helped me?
    Time, and patience are key.

    Quote:
    I know that I haven't slept well at all in the last three weeks cause I've been worrying so much that I'm never going to get better. So I think that it may be hard to even tell if the Armour has been working in the last three weeks, since my lack of sleep could be contributing to my fatigue also?
    Good point. Is that something you discussed with your doctor? Sleep deprivation causes lots of symptoms, and maybe a temporary prescription of some kind of sleep aid might be helpful. I know I am AWFUL whether my levels are right or not when I am deprived of enough quality sleep.

    Quote:
    I was wondering if the normal ranges for other lab tests could be flawed, such as a complete blood count? I was concerned about my hemoglobin level and my hematocrit level. Cause on a blood test that I had done in July, my hemoglobin was 16.6 and the normal range was 13.2-17.1 Also, my hematocrit level was 49.1 and the normal range was 38.5-50% I thought my levels sounded kinda high cause they were in the upper level of the normal range? I told my current doctor that, and he's going to have a iron panel done for me.
    I am certain that other blood tests are flawed, but Iron is one that I can relate to. I tend to be on the high side on iron-related tests. Generally, men do not need to supplement with Iron, so if you are taking any vitamin supplement with Iron, you might want to consider one without Iron.

    Quote:
    I had a Candida blood test done a few months ago. The result came back within the normal range. Yesterday, I asked my doctor if the blood test for Candida is accurate, and he said it's not real accurate. So he gave me a trial dose of an anti-fungal medication to see if it helps me.
    Was it within nnormal range, but a little on the high side? Regardless, Candida is hard to accurately test for, depending on where it is hiding in your system. Maybe you are on to something, becaseu Candida cause fatigue and other vague thyroid-like symptoms. Candida also has a tendency to make you have sugar and simple carb cravings, if that rings a bell.

    Quote:
    I don't know why he didn't suggest this medication a few months back. It seems like I have to ask for some tests and repeat myself a lot. My doctor is pretty old. He ends up asking some questions that he already asked at previous appointments.
    Even a very good doctor has a busy schedule and might ask questions that you have answered before. It also isn't unusual with such short office visits to miss a diagnosis now and then. It helps to be prepared for that, and have questions ready and ask the doc to review what is in your chart from the last visit, if needed.
    __________________
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    I am not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV...

     
    Old 12-15-2004, 12:21 PM   #15
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    Re: Help needed from Meep or someone

    Meep,
    To update, I started tapering off of the Armour thyroid medication on November 11. I went from 120 mg to 90 mg a day. After taking 90 mg for 10 days, I cut back to 60 mg a day. I saw my doctor on the day that I was supposed cut back to 30 mg a day. I told him how I was feeling worse since about the same time I started to taper off of the Armour medication. My concentration and short-term memory have gotten even lower. I forget things from 30 seconds ago. My doctor said that I could be having a reaction from tapering off of the thyroid medication. He told me to keep taking 60 mg a day for the time being. Do you think I will start to feel a little better once my body becomes adjusted to the decrease, and eventual stopping of the thyroid medication? How much longer do you think I should keep taking 60 mg a day until I cut back to 30 mg?

    I don't think the doctor retested my Free T4 last month cause my Free T4 was at 1.5 with a normal range of .8 to 1.8 before I started on the thyroid medication(this Free T4 test was done three months before I started on the thyroid medication). So my Free T4 probably didn't get lower once I started the thyroid medication. So I guess that's why my doctor didn't retest the Free T4 when he retested the Free T3 and TSH.

    I hadn't taken my Armour for a few days before I had my Free T3 and TSH retested, because I thought it might possibly interfere with my six hour urine Mercury test. I did a six hour urine Mecury test close to the day that I was having the Free T3 and TSH retested. The Free T3 and TSH test was done around 9:30 in the morning.

    I also had a Ferritin test done last month. The normal range is 20-345 and my level was at 315. It sounds like I have a lot of Iron stored in my body?

     
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