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TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

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Old 12-03-2004, 09:31 AM   #1
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TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

A little refresher - Was on synthroid .075 with not too bad levels. Due to treatment resistant depression, my shrink sent me to an endo. Saw the NP who changed me to 30 Armour increased to 45 two weeks later after I insisted, then to 60 on my own the next week, as she refused to increase. I was so achy body wise, however my mental clarity improved. Yesterday, NP called with test results and reported she couldn't increase my armour because if the TSH got any lower, I could get osteoporosis or cardiomyopathy. HMMM.

Here are the results being on Armour 30 for 2 weeks, 45 for 2 weeks and 60 for 1 week.

TSH .4 (0.350-5.50)
FT3 3.0 (2.3-4.2)
FT4 .84 (.61-1.76)

The last two days I have started to have less body aches and have slept better, Yeah!

She wanted to changed me back to synthroid and add some cytomel. I told her I would like to hang out with the armour until my next appt to give it more time. If the T4 doesn't come up, then I asked if she would add in some T4. She replied that if she did, she would have to reduce my armour significantly, because of the conversion to T3.

I am sure confused with the remark about cardiomyopathy! I didn't want to believe that I had ushered myself into a TSH worshiping practice, but looks like I have. Think if I give it a little more time, I might continue to feel better? She did finally agree with me hanging out with the Armour for a while.... Any insights will be appreciated. TIA

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Old 12-03-2004, 09:53 AM   #2
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Re: TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

Good for you Lilly!!!! You told the doc what YOU wanted. Does sound like another stuck on the TSH doc. I think there is someone in the medical community telling them to prescribe synthroid. Guess it all boils down to making money.

I just don't understand why a suppressed TSH will cause osteoporosis and cardiomyopathy.

Since I have been on Armour for a little over a month, I don't have the heart flutters and all the other symptoms that go with hypoT.

The first two weeks I started off with 1/2 a grain. Then, I started taking l grain. My hair stopped falling out. I'm glad because there was a starting of bald spots on top.

My TSH was 0.04 but ft4 and ft3 was too low for me.
** RAI ablation for Graves disease 2004**

Old 12-03-2004, 10:29 AM   #3
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Re: TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

Your Free T3 and Free T4 levels have you FAR from being in danger of any heart or bone problems form your thyroid meds. In fact, you are mor elikely to suffer problems from too low a dose, such as, again, osteoporosis, and congestive heart problems due the low-ish T4. Do you have the means to do some doctor shopping?

How about looking up a Dr. Dommisse on the either Google or Yahoo. He has written a fantastic paper that woudl be good reading for your doc. The paper costs $10 to ******** from his website, but a little sleuthing on some of the thyroid support websites may find it for you, since he says it can be distributed freely as long as he is given credit for it.

An Excerpt to share with your doctor:
just because the new ultrasenstive TSH test is a very sensitive and accurate test for measuring the TSH level, this suggests to imply that TSH is always or usually the correct yardstick by which to measure the function of the thyroid hormones, T4 and T3. There is an unconscious, unintentional 'sleight of hand' occurring here. The assumption is that, if TSH is low-normal, adequate amounts of T4 are being converted to T3 in the pituitary receptors; and that, if TSH is below normal, excessive amounts of T3 are being formed from T4 in those receptor cells. There does not appear to be any evidence that the pituitary gland ~ or any organ or tissue, for that matter ~ can convert T4 to T3 at any greater rate than that which is reflected in the serum FT3 level. Anyone who routinely measures the serum FT3 level will observe that the serum FT3 level is often low, even when the TSH level is low-normal or below normal ~ even in the absence of identifiable pituitary or hypothalamic disease. Some of these cases are so-called 'euthyroid sick'/ non-thyroidal illness syndrome cases, some are subtle secondary or tertiary hypothyroid cases without known disease involvement of either the pituitary or the hypothalamus. And some are any combination of these two forms of hypothyroidism, or of non-thyroidal-illness hypothyroidism, or of grade-3 primary hypothyroidism.

The TSH is an indirect gauge of T4 and T3 activity and depends on its own integrity-of-function and not only on the relative heights of the two thyroid hormones. Most realize this truth when there is known hypopituitarism or hypothalamic malfunction, but we don't recognize it is also true in subtle/ occult pituitary and hypothalamic failure, and in the hypothyroidism that is now increasingly recognized as a frequent accompaniment of non-thyroidal illness or the 'euthyroid sick' syndrome (Palazzo & Suter, 1990; Chopra, 1997; DeGroot, 1999). It is incorrect to state that the FT4 and FT3 levels are inconsequential: High or high_normal levels would indicate that the high or high-normal TSH is not even due to hypothyroidism but is due to lab error, stress, or a spurious high TSH, or some other condition. This is another example of why it is always necessary to measure FT4 and FT3. A TSH level can be dispensed with in a patient who over_suppresses the TSH even when FT4 and FT3 are not elevated, but, in our opinion, FT4 and FT3 can never be dispensed with.

I am not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV...

Last edited by Meep; 12-03-2004 at 10:33 AM.

Old 12-03-2004, 01:47 PM   #4
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Re: TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

Thank you, I will look for that report. I am seeing the NP of a doc who is listed in the Top Docs forum, hard to believe there is only one listed in my large metro area ....alas, I also am of the opinion that I haven't been on the 60 long enough to see if it will do the trick!

Thanks for that info.

Old 12-03-2004, 05:28 PM   #5
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Re: TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

Lilly... Read the following thread that I participated in a few months ago. There's much information about osteo and heart effects from thyroid therapy, with references:

Old 12-03-2004, 06:52 PM   #6
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Re: TSH osteoprosis & cardiomyopathy

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to refer me to this thread. I will read and print the mean time I will think about how to interview a new doc! I don't feel like spoon feeding a doctor or NP who charges me almost $300 dollars to tell me I can't have more medication to be healthy.

Thanks again, I so appreciate you all!

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