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    Old 01-25-2007, 10:46 AM   #1
    Jamie2703
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    Lightbulb How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    I have Hashi's and have never been checked for Adrenal fatigue. I constantly feel aweful and think that my past ER visit, because of severe vertigo back in October, was because of Adrenals. I had an increase in my armour a week before this happened.I saw my endo, family doc-who suspeced a small stroke- ER doc and ENT doc. All tests came back normal- MRI, MRA, CAT scan, and 2 hearing tests. No one figured out what happened to me....this virtigo also lasted an entire month and I had to drop my Medical Assisting classes at college because I could not drive, almost blacked out driving, had slurred speach during spells, was confused and disoriented, and tons of other symptoms. I looked up Adrenal fatigue yesterday and man it sounded like me! Today I have this nervous shaky feeling, nausea, heart palps, I sweat alot, and I know I'm not on too high of a dose of meds. Dec TSH was 6.1 and FT4 was 0.76. So I'm definately not hyper! Is it common to have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's? I read everyone is supposed to undergo testing on their Adrenals before starting Thyroid meds, but doctors fail to do this. Could this be why I got hyper symptoms on a low dose of Levoxyl (50mcg). I'm on 2 grains of Armour now but like I said am getting those feelings with a TSH of 6.1. Should I make an appointment to have them test my adrenals...or am I just a hypochondriac????

    Last edited by Jamie2703; 01-25-2007 at 10:51 AM.

     
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    Old 01-26-2007, 06:51 AM   #2
    cossette2
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Hi Jamie,
    I can sure relate to being dizzy, extremely fatigued, slow reflexes, etc.,but i've seen a dramatic improvement as i've been on an adrenal supplement for the last 14 months.

    Mine is a loooooong story, but i'll give you the short version.....i was diagnosed with hypothyroid back in May 2002 and after a year of synthroid and blood tests coming out fine and balanced i was still feeling not myself....unable to work or drive my car......this went on for quite a while until mid-2005 when i read something on a post which said i might have adrenal problems. Suddenly several pieces of the puzzle were coming together and i ordered the book 'Adrenal Fatigue' and though i was having a tough time even reading, i gradually got through it and was amazed as i met pretty well every symptom in the book!! A REAL AHA moment!!!!!! My naturopathic doc then confirmed my suspicion and since Oct. 05 i've been on this adrenal supplement and since then i've needed to decrease my synthroid from 88 mcg to 75 mcg and presently i'm on 50 mcg. I've also been on a basically low-carb, low-glycemic, diet and exercise as much as possible......at least once per day. I was able to ride my bicycle for 30 minutes last summer which would have been completely unheard of the previous summer.....even getting up the stairs was exhausting even tho i'm not overweight and have always tried to keep fit!!

    So i would highly recommend you look into it. Note: i don't have Hashi's, but i am hypothyroid though.

    It's been my experience that as far as getting tested for adrenals, your conventional docs will not help you unless you're practically at death's door with Addison's Disease. This is when your adrenals are almost completely useless. The conven. doc will then prescribe a steroid called cortef (which you would have to take for life like synthroid) which will get you back on track in about a month, but can have some serious side effects.They use blood work for this to get cortisol levels, etc.

    Whereas, a naturopathic doc will do saliva testing which will determine if you have weakening in the adrenals and then prescribe a natural alternative such as a bovine adrenal supplement along with a special diet and vitamins and minerals. This process takes longer, but it then rebuilds your adrenals and eventually you can go off the supplement and feel well.

    Hope you find help.
    __________________
    hypo, Synthroid 75 mcg, estrace 1mg, prometrium 100mg, celexa 20mg, adrenal support (also have primary ovarian failure - extremely rare condition)

    Last edited by cossette2; 01-26-2007 at 07:00 AM. Reason: forgot something

     
    Old 01-26-2007, 07:27 AM   #3
    Deb123
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    I also don't have hashis but am hypo with severe adrenal fatigue. Mine is a long story also but short version, because I was without thyroid meds for three years that I desperately needed due to ignorant docs I ended up burning out my adrenals.

    I've been on low dose compounded cortisone for 16 months now and am better but still not well so am in the process of doing some self medicating. I'm adding isocort and will soon start upping my thyroid meds some as keep having lingering symptoms but doc won't let me raise as my Free T3 is at the top BUT I'm still having symptoms. I've learned from another forum that cortisol is needed to get the most benefit from you thyroid hormone and when it is low the thyroid hormone will just sort of pool in the blood not hitting the receptor sites thus having the high labs with lingering hypo symptoms. After this bottle of isocort is used up will probably order some cortef and give it a try.

    I haven't been able to work in three years and have given the docs about all the chance I am going to so have done tons of research, read, read and read some more and am going it on my own pretty much from this point on. I will still have labs done with my currect doc but will keep my treatment plan to myself.

    My opinion is if you do have adrenal fatigue and don't treat it as well you will never be well. I'm not sure I agree that you have to be on adrenal support for life like thyroid, from what I've read the idea is to take over for the adrenals with enough support to allow them to rest and heal and then slowly taper down and hopefully they will kick in.

    Good luck

    Deb

     
    Old 01-26-2007, 10:45 AM   #4
    cossette2
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deb123 View Post

    I'm not sure I agree that you have to be on adrenal support for life like thyroid, from what I've read the idea is to take over for the adrenals with enough support to allow them to rest and heal and then slowly taper down and hopefully they will kick in.

    Deb
    Deb, i think you misread my post. I was saying that you need to take steroids for life if you have Addison's disease......which is the extreme end of adrenal fatigue (basically at death's door), whereas, for those of us who have adrenal fatigue, but not to the point of Addison's disease, the option can me to take glandular adrenal supplements which help rebuild the adrenal glands.....these supplements may only be needed for about 2 years give or take, depending on how drained your adrenals are and then you can go off the supplements.

    Deb, are you aware of doctors who will prescribe adrenal steroids for adrenal fatigue and Not for Addison's disease? From what i have read in my research, i have found that most conventional doctors do not even recognize adrenal fatigue (otherwise called hypoadrenia) so they will not prescribe cortef until your cortisol is so low that you have Addison's. Have you found otherwise in your research?

    The fact that most doctors don't recognize adrenal fatigue can be extremely frustrating!!!!! Believe me, when you can barely function to do the basics and concentrate and you have to deal with the illness and then you manage to get yourself together with your notes, etc. to a doctor's appointment and are barely coherent to explain your symptoms, and answer doc's questions, it's sssooooooooooo maddening and can be extremely discouraging when they look at you like you need a psychiatrist.....or like they want to say.....get a hobby and you'll feel better. If it wasn't for my faith in God, i probably would have jumped off the nearest bridge after struggling for months and years with symptoms.

    Anyway, i'm every so thankful that i found a naturopathic doc who knew i wasn't imagining this and that it was very real......

    Thanks for allowing me to vent
    __________________
    hypo, Synthroid 75 mcg, estrace 1mg, prometrium 100mg, celexa 20mg, adrenal support (also have primary ovarian failure - extremely rare condition)

     
    Old 01-27-2007, 06:44 AM   #5
    Deb123
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Ooops Sorry, that's what I get for checking the forums when I have a bad case of the flu, should have stayed in bed.

    I completely agree with the frustration of finding a doc to help in these situations. I was soooo sick when I finally crashed in 2004 and in my heart knew it was from untreated thyroid but the doc that I had found at that time and the one who originally pulled me off work as he could see I could go no longer diagnosed me with very severe candida but wouldn't buy into the thyroid and adrenal issue. Don't get me wrong the candida alone very nearly killed me and have been battling it for 3 years now, much better there, but not going to confidently say I've beat it. But, I believe with all my heart the reason I ended up with it was from the untreated thyroid, look at a list of thyroid symptoms and you will see yeast infections, although I never had a vaginal it got in my blood so had it bodywide.

    After only treating the candida for 15 long months I begged him to let me try thyroid meds and he reluctantly agreed and it was amazing, within one hour of my first armour I could breath for the first time in a couple of years, I had shortness of breath that I thought was from the candida in my lungs. Then I went to having a rough time tolerating the meds and know my adrenals were shot but he said they were fine by a blood dhea test. Finally found a new place and the tested by 24 hour urine and my adrenals were basically non-existant. Like I said, been on cortisone for 16 months now and I'm fine for every day life around the house but if I feel really good and go up to the park and walk a couple of miles I'm shot for days after so I still have so little cortisol it is used up very easily. They won't increase my cortisone because it might make me put on fat around the middle!! Hello, I'm trying to get a normal life again and unless you are taking an excessive amount I don't think that will be an issue, I'm very slim waisted and would know immediately if that were happening.

    So basically, I'm giving up on docs, have ordered some armour online and when it gets here will slowly start tirating up while also increasing cortisone until my symptoms are finally gone. I'm following closely some guidelines from another thyroid forum that is basically full of people like myself with thyroid and adrenal problems that are not getting well with the docs.

    Wow, didn't mean to go on for so long, guess I needed to vent as well. This is all just soooooooo frustrating!! I wish us both good health in the future.

    Deb

     
    Old 01-27-2007, 11:30 AM   #6
    Calore
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Interesting thread. How do we know if a naturopath/homeopath knows what they are talking about or is trully qualified? Do they have to meet certain criteria to operate as such?
    Carol

     
    Old 01-28-2007, 06:32 AM   #7
    Deb123
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    I'm not real sure, maybe somebody else will chime in for you. I've never actually been to a naturopath, would have loved to have found one during my health journey but live in a small town and there are none. I have to travel 3 hours one way as it is to the docs treating me for thyroid and adrenals.

    Naturopaths are usually better at looking at symptoms and not strictly by labs but I'm not sure they can all write scripts. They are more into whole body wellness which I am all for because I have learned the hard way when one body system begins not working correctly it can have a domino effect and LOOK OUT.

    Deb

     
    Old 01-28-2007, 06:34 AM   #8
    cossette2
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Hey Calore,
    Yes, that is the million $ question. I have found in my own experience, that it's trial and error. Back in 2001 my family doc left town and i was left with no doc for over a year (our city has a severe MD shortage) and i decided to try a local naturopathic doc. I saw her for over a year......almost $1400.00 later i was no better, in fact gradually feeling worse with thyroid and adrenal symptoms. I finally found a nurse pract. who was kind enough to take me as a patient. She checked me out and quickly did a TSH test and found out i was hypothyroid.

    Anyway, as the years went on i was still not feeling well and my chiropractor then recommended a different naturopathic doc who had recently come to town and set up practice. Well, i tried her out knowing my chiropractor always seemed to know what she was talking about. Well, she was right. This new ND was great! Another tip (which i'm not sure is true in all cases) this new ND used blood work for diagnosing as well as reviewing your symptoms, whereas the first ND used bio-energetic testing....electric impulses on each finger tip and each toe......my experience is the bio-energetic testing either a)didn't work for me because of my unusual situation, or b) the ND was unable to properly assess the results of the test, or c) bio-testing isn't too reliable.

    That's my experience for what it's worth.

    All in all, word of mouth worked for me. I suppose, just like regular MD's, some of these ND's aren't worth too much.
    __________________
    hypo, Synthroid 75 mcg, estrace 1mg, prometrium 100mg, celexa 20mg, adrenal support (also have primary ovarian failure - extremely rare condition)

     
    Old 01-28-2007, 06:42 AM   #9
    cossette2
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deb123 View Post
    Naturopaths are usually better at looking at symptoms and not strictly by labs but I'm not sure they can all write scripts.
    Deb
    Neither one of the ND's i saw were able to write scripts. They only dealt with supplements, vitamins, etc.......nothing pharmaceutical.
    __________________
    hypo, Synthroid 75 mcg, estrace 1mg, prometrium 100mg, celexa 20mg, adrenal support (also have primary ovarian failure - extremely rare condition)

     
    Old 01-28-2007, 09:25 AM   #10
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Thanks for the info! Will keep this in mind on my search for someone to help me feel better

     
    Old 01-28-2007, 05:20 PM   #11
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    What tests do they run to check your adrenal glands? I have been to 2 endo's now. The first said I have Hashimotos AND Graves disease but then admitted that they aren't really sure what exactly is wrong with me. The 2nd confirmed that I could have Hashi's AND Graves but that he doesn't think either of those is causing my symptoms. He suggested Addison's disease. I was very curious to see this post about Adrenal Fatigue. What are/were your symptoms when you were diagnosed with this? I have a low TSH and high TSI, which would suggest hyperthyroid but my symptoms are mainly extreme fatigue where sleeping and eating don't give me an ounce more energy.

     
    Old 01-29-2007, 01:19 PM   #12
    Jamie2703
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    I appreciate the responses.....I read up some more about Adrenal Fatigue today and now I'm really confused...I have just about all of the symptoms for adrenal fatigue, but now I'm reading that includes low cortisol too....which then causes weight loss like in Addison's disease, but high cortisol causes weight gain in the abdomen, which I have noticed is happening to me over the past 2 to 3 years. So does this rule the adrenals out? Does that mean something else? I've also read about Cushing's disease which is the opposite of Addison's where you have an excess production of cortisol, but I also read it's very very rare. Like I said I'm very confused. Can someone please explain it to me ? My poor Hypo brain just doesn't want to function today....

     
    Old 01-30-2007, 05:28 AM   #13
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    to- jmcummins......a naturopathic doc will do a saliva test (this is more reliable as the saliva hormone levels are more indicative of the amount of hormone inside the cells where hormone reactions take place. Blood tests measure hormones circulating outside the cells, and urine measures the spill over of hormones out of the blood and into the urine)to test your adrenals, whereas a standard MD will do blood work. Symptoms are many and can vary slightly with each person, but I highly recommend the book Adrenal Fatigue by Dr. James Wilson.

    Anyway, here are the symptoms i have felt: depression, anxiety, dizziness, constipation, dry skin, brittle nails, sore/tight muscles, tired, weak, no stamina, poor sleep, brain fog, slow reflexes, slow metabolism, jumpy with noises, hypoglycemic, developing allergies, extra weight around the middle, craving carbs and salty foods.

    to- Jamie......it was my experience that while i met most of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue, i also struggled with my weight. i was about 20 lbs. overweight....i think my highest weight was 160 with most of the excess fat around my middle (abdomen). After being on the adrenal support, i have lost the 20 lbs. and can fit into my size 10's again.....yippee!
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    Last edited by moderator2; 01-30-2007 at 07:02 AM.

     
    Old 01-30-2007, 11:15 AM   #14
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Cossette2...those are the symptoms I presented with and I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism ( Hashi)!! As the meds kick in,,,actually haven't found the right dosage but getting there I hope,,, your should start feeling better. Graves, Cushings etc are a whole different ball park in a way. Sure hope you discover what is wrong exactly and feel better soon!

     
    Old 02-01-2007, 04:05 PM   #15
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    Re: How many have Adrenal fatigue with Hashi's

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Calore View Post
    Cossette2...those are the symptoms I presented with and I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism ( Hashi)!! As the meds kick in,,,actually haven't found the right dosage but getting there I hope,,, your should start feeling better. Graves, Cushings etc are a whole different ball park in a way. Sure hope you discover what is wrong exactly and feel better soon!
    Hi Calore.....a lot of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue will be the same as hypothyroidism as these glands work together and when one is weak it affects the other to one degree or another. The adrenals can take a lot of stress, etc. but eventually they become over-taxed. In my case, i was born without ovaries which began to put strain on my adrenals and the whole endocrine system......back in the 80's, my endo had warned me in a letter that eventually my thyroid and adrenals might give out too..... i had tucked that letter away and a few years ago i found it in my files and this was definetely one of the pieces which completed the puzzle which was my worsening health...month after month....year after year.......I'm so thankful for that endo's letter. He was recognized as one of the best endo's in Canada at the time.....what a blessing that i had been referred to him.....sadly he died several years ago....if he was still alive i would have loved to get more info from him.
    So, this ovarian problem, combined with a number of very stressful events in my life combined with the thyroid problem....makes sense in my case that the adrenals were taking a beating....
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