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cougars 06-14-2007 07:48 AM

Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Hi again,

Well, my latest labs are in and am also posting previous ones (ref ranges the same):

22-Mar

TSH .5 (ref .35-4.94)
Free T3 : 3.33 (ref 1.71-3.71)
Free T4 : 1.10 (ref .70-1.48)

12 Jun

TSH .6
Free T3 : 2.72
Free T4 : 1.10

I don't remember exactly how I felt back in March for the blood tests but when I went on the 12th, I was feeling quite crappy--jittery, muscle twitching and feeling of a vibration in my body. I was expecting the Free T3 level to be higher, but instead it is lower than in March. Strange, yesterday and today I am feeling less amped.

-I am wondering if the T3 was already in my cells causing the symptoms and so the Free T3 was not so high as it was already being metabolized--if that makes sense? And, now the effects have worn off?

I am seeing the endo on Monday for the uptake scan results, which showed one area (or nodule) as 'warm' or 'hot'. But, from my labs it seems this is not contributing to my symptoms? Wouldn't the labs reflect something if the nodule was producing hormone on its own? I have also been diagnosed with Hashis from a FNB. I have at least 3 nodules.

I am also wondering if there are other blood tests I should be having--I have been tested for the antibodies and am neg. Would the total T4 show anything? Could my body be using too much hormone--too much thyroid binding globulin, if that's possible? Could this be an adrenal problem instead? Or, does it just sound like the Hashi toxicosis that others seem to be experiencing? Even that, I would think, would be reflected in the labs, no?

I would like to be as informed as possible when I see the endo to help things along. So, any comments would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

cheers,

cougars

accessn12 06-15-2007 05:01 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Hi cougars,

Let me try and get this brain in gear and I'll be back with you. I'm bumping this up so that I don't forget again. Talk about short term memory problems lately.

later,
Helen

boata 06-15-2007 06:41 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Have you ever had your progesterone and estrogen checked? When I started on progesterone cream it addressed the jittery-wierd feeling I had after starting on thyroid meds. I know you can buy progesterone over the counter, but I would not suggest starting this without knowing what your levels are - high progesterone can be a problem too...

accessn12 06-15-2007 07:09 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
I looked back thru your posts. March 23, you said you were going thru a little hyper phase.

T3 levels can change very rapidly. In fact I have seen very discordant results when I had my labs done two days running. I have always found that my "little hyper phases" seem to run for about 3 days. I can just about time em. It's like a jolt and then a slow tapering off.

Like je said in a previous thread. It might be that you have more than one thyroid problem going on. And, whose to say that that hot or warm area isn't contributing to your symptoms? It's a very valid question.

I can't see where a total t4 would provide much more information. You might wanna ask the endo if he might see a reason for one. Same with TBG.

Now, boata's got a good suggestion. Have you ever had your female hormones tested? And like you said perhaps cortisol to check the adrenals? The various endocrine systems are so closely entwined. It might be worth a look-see.

Let us know what he says.

Helen

cougars 06-15-2007 08:00 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
[QUOTE=accessn12;3046047]I looked back thru your posts. March 23, you said you were going thru a little hyper phase.

T3 levels can change very rapidly. In fact I have seen very discordant results when I had my labs done two days running. I have always found that my "little hyper phases" seem to run for about 3 days. I can just about time em. It's like a jolt and then a slow tapering off.

Like je said in a previous thread. It might be that you have more than one thyroid problem going on. And, whose to say that that hot or warm area isn't contributing to your symptoms? It's a very valid question.

I can't see where a total t4 would provide much more information. You might wanna ask the endo if he might see a reason for one. Same with TBG.

Now, boata's got a good suggestion. Have you ever had your female hormones tested? And like you said perhaps cortisol to check the adrenals? The various endocrine systems are so closely entwined. It might be worth a look-see.

Let us know what he says.

Helen[/QUOTE]

Thank you Boata and Helen for your suggestions. I will ask him what he thinks. Boata, what are symptoms of progesterone problems besides being jittery? My periods are still quite regular.

I was hoping the warm or hot nodule would be contributing to the symptoms, but wouldn't that be reflected in the labs? I was thinking too maybe it is a combo of a hashi thyroid with a hot nodule that makes the labs look ok, but which causes me symptoms--if that is possible.....

Helen, what is the latest with you? How are you feeling?

Take care,

cougars

boata 06-15-2007 08:22 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
For me, low progesterone left me edgy and bloaty. But if you have regular periods, I believe it would be unusuual for you to have low progesterone as regulating periods is one of the main things it does.

accessn12 06-15-2007 08:53 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
That's an interesting theory. Kinda makes sense. Maybe it is a battle going on and one is trying to prevail over the other. Unless they were doing labs every couple of days, something like that might not show up. I guess it would depend a lot on whether that area is capable of putting out hormones in spurts. I suppose if it was not autonomous and still under the control of tsh and since tsh can be pulsatile in nature, you may have something there. I'm really going to be interested to hear what the endo has to say. You make for an interesting study. ;)

Me? To be honest, I feel like crap. I was planning on updating my other thread at some point. For the moment, I'd rather deal with other people's problems. I'll meet you there after I've gotten a chance to get things straight in my head.

later,
Helen

cougars 06-15-2007 09:19 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Helen, I'm sorry to hear you aren't feeling well--I hope your docs are doing some research so they can help you. I will look for your update.

Thanks again for your input--will keep you posted on what he says on Monday.

Have a good weekend,

cougars

cougars 06-20-2007 05:35 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Hi there, Helen, if you're there,

Just wanted to update this thread as I saw my endo. He said that on the one hand we (doctors) have the blood tests and on the other hand we have what our patients are telling us, which is a lot of people seem to talk about the same symptoms even if their blood tests do not reflect it. So, at least that seems to validate my symptoms. In my case, he believes that the one nodule (which he said was not 'toxic', but showed an increased uptake of iodine on scan--other nodule is cold) may occasionally put out a bit extra hormone or the gland itself releases stored hormone as it is 'dying' which causes me symptoms, but doesn't stay long enough for the TSH to react to it. He did say me having a consistent TSH around .5 or .6 would indicate to him my thyroid took a beating at one point which reduced the TSH and I guess now that the Free Ts are ok, it is staying around that level....???? He said that once I go hypo, then I can be put on meds and I will feel much better. No meds for now. He said I would really feel like crap if I took them.


I am supposed to have labs done again in September or so, along with anti-TPO to see if they have appeared. Also, another ultrasound to see how big the nodules are.

He did not feel the adrenals were involved as he said I would most likely have other symptoms. Blood pressure was also good at the doctor's. He said given all the info, it most likely is this.

Oh hum. Oh well. More waiting....how are you doing???

cougars

accessn12 06-20-2007 07:43 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Hey cougars,

I think he's right and you would feel like crap on meds. How does it feel to finally know you aren't crazy? What he said makes perfect sense. I think he's one of the few endos that actually realizes that symptoms can come and go and not be reflected by the "mighty lab sheet". I swear, all the years of experiencing this crap, I'm convinced that the darn things get angry and spit. You can get a short burst of hyper and then things settle out again. It's only when they get really angry that they refuse to settle back down and actually show up in the labs.

You still doing betas when you need them? It is you who does some betas, isn't it. I'm being lazy and don't wanna go back thru posts to look it up. It seems to me that you might be one of those that would do well doing betas on an as needed basis.

I'm still hanging and waiting. More pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. Not particularly happy about having to deal with these kidneys too but it sure does explain some things. Kinda waiting for je to reappear. Guess he's off on one of his jaunts again. He's always got some good input.

Other than that, things are going ok. Seeing a lot of wildlife lately hanging around the house. Had 5 deer in the yard, 2 coons in the chicken coop, a skunk wandered thru, one of those giant woodpeckers is building a nest in a tree right outside and there's a whipoorwill that's been serenading me outside the window during the early morning hours. It's fun to watch em all.

I hope you're doing ok. The waiting sucks, don't it?

Helen

cougars 06-20-2007 11:35 AM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
Hi Helen,

It is amazing how much wildlife you have outside your door! I wish my girls could experience more of that. We live in the big city. I remember when my eldest was about 2 or 3 we went to visit a friend who lives in the countryside. My daughter was so excited when she saw a butterfly. I thought that said it all. Then we had the second and our travel plans slowed down some. Now that both are a bit bigger, we hope to be able to show them more rural settings. I guess there are pros and cons to both city and country life.

I hope your kidney problem gets sorted out and you can see the specialist soon. You must be so frustrated. The waiting is the worst. You're right, je would probably have something to add....

I do have betas that I take very occasionally, as I don't like to take medication. They do seem to help some. I also started on magnesium/calcium vitamins again--hope that will help with the muscle twitching which drives me nuts! The one thing my doc did say is that they can't really explain the symptoms with the labs, but that the docs can't ignore them either because so many people complain about them. It just seems like there must be more going on than just the Free Ts and TSH, no? Hormones or something they can't measure? It is just so strange the gamit of symptoms people have and all from the effects of those 3 things? The interactions must be so complicated and intricate for some people to have no symptoms at a certain level, others severe symptoms at the same level and the variations in the symptoms from person to person. I am still debating seeing another homeopathic doc if I start feeling really bad again. Maybe there's some treatment I could try.

Anyway, hang in there and keep us posted on how you're doing. Thanks for all of your input!

cougars

accessn12 06-20-2007 03:16 PM

Re: Latest labs and a couple more questions for the experts--please
 
I love the wildlife here. I spent a great deal of my childhood living in DC. There, the wildlife was a little different. A lot more dangerous too. Here, they call butterflys play prettys. I'd never heard the expression before but it just seems so right. Have a neice and nephew who used to come up every summer to stay with us. They live in the city and we used to have a ball as they discovered all the new things. Three creeks, mountains. trees and enormous rock formations is all we got right here. Not another building in site. It's great.

I guess I wouldn't mind the wait if I didn't feel so bad. I get so frustrated when I think what great shape I was in just a little over a year ago. I got so much I wanna do. The weather's perfect and I got a million projects that I wanna finish and here I sit and wait.

I find the betas really help with the muscle twitching. I know the times that I was just taking anti-thyroids without betas, I always had the muscle twitches. Since I started the betas, it takes a real bad surge to get them going. Ever notice how clumsy they make you?

One of the things I think may happen is that t3 is very short lived. It also packs a wallop. Something tells me that the t3 is probably responsable for a lot of those surges. Also T3 and T4 are not the only hormones produced. They are just the ones in the greatest number. If I had my head screwed on straight right now I'd remember. I think there's T2 and a couple others. I don't ever recall reading if they know exactly what those are for or what they do. Where's je when you need him????????

I think the reactions of different people to the same levels has a lot to do with the distribution of the thyroid hormone receptors. It also probably has a lot to do with a persons given set point and what they were encoded to be content with at conception. They're doing a bunch of research now and will eventually have an answer.

There's a lot to be said for homeopaths. They have a tendency to look for all those interactions and seem to have more of a goal towards making a person feel better all over. I sometimes get the feeling that most regular docs get tunnel vision and end up focusing on just one thing. I like the sound of your endo. He seems to have some imagination and common sense.

Hey, I like sharing what I've learned. If nothing else, it makes having whatever this thing is serve a purpose other than driving me nuts.

later,
Helen


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