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    Old 09-29-2008, 08:00 PM   #1
    Jadip71
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    Question Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Hello, everyone,

    I am new to this board - my first post - and have a few questions I was hoping someone could help me with. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's about a month ago and started on Levothyroxine 125mcg. Here are the lab results that were used to make that diagnosis:

    TSH = 4.60 Range 0.27-4.2
    Free T4 = 1.00 Range 0.93-1.7
    Free T3 = 2.83 Range 2.0-4.4
    Thyroid Peroxidase AB = 234.0 H Reference Range <35.0 IU/ML


    I started having arthritis-like joint pain 4 months ago. It was getting progressively worse - it started in my ankles, but is now throughout my entire body. All my bloodwork from a rheumatoid dr. were normal except for a slightly elevated ANA Titer Speckled pattern. SOMETHING was wrong, but bloodwork showed nothing. I did some detective work and found some of my other symptoms matched a possible thyroid problem. The endo got the above blood results and diagnosed me with Hashi. She said the joint pain was likely from Hashi's.

    Having been on the meds almost a month, I am having no relief from the joint pain. I went to another rheumatoid doctor for a second opinion and blood work and other tests still show everything is normal. She wants to diagnose me with Psoriatic Arthritis, but I'm not convinced. There is no test to confirm that diagnosis -- -- I have skin rash + joint pain = Psoriatic Arthritis???

    So I am wondering if all this pain (that is still getting worse and more disabling by the day) is from Hashi. Does anyone have this symptom as their main Hashi symptom? If so, how long 'till I feel some relief from the pain? What can I do in the meantime? (I am taking an NSAID for the pain, but it doesn't work very well.)

    I am thinking of going to a neurologist for this also.

    Please share with me any personal experience and/or advice that might help.

    Thanks,
    Jeanette

     
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    Old 09-30-2008, 06:25 PM   #2
    Hazel1234
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    YOu need to give the levothyroxine more than a month to start working 100%. Not only should your doctor have told you this, but the prescription info you got w/ the medication states this as well. Give it time, i did not start feeling myself again until about 2-3 months after having the synthroid (which is basically the same stuff as what you're taking) in my body--it does take some time. I too had joint pains (not severe) but i did have them before i was diagnosed, so it is related to the hypothyroid condition. IF you're still feeling this pain after being on the meds for after 3 months, and you get your blood tested again and it's normal, then yes, go to a neurologist.

    Last edited by Hazel1234; 09-30-2008 at 06:26 PM.

     
    Old 10-07-2008, 08:46 AM   #3
    Jadip71
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Thanks for your reply. I know that I need to wait longer for the meds. to kick in. I just thought that, with being on it a month, I would have *some* relief from the pain and the pain would not be worse.

    I want to know from those of you with Hashimoto's if joint pain is something you had or have. Everyone talks about other symptoms on these boards, but what about joint pain?

    Just curious...

    Jeanette

     
    Old 10-07-2008, 09:48 AM   #4
    mkgb
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Jadip,

    Welcome to our dysfunctional thyroid family!

    TSH = 4.60 Range 0.27-4.2
    Optimal TSH is around 1. Even on T4 supplementation.
    Free T4 = 1.00 Range 0.93-1.7
    You are at 9% in the normal range here. Optimal for a woman of childbearing years is 60-80% in range. Your body was crying out for thyroid hormone.
    Free T3 = 2.83 Range 2.0-4.4
    You are at 34% of range here. This is high in comparison to your T4 values. Did you MD test your adrenal function. Given the high T3 imbalance with respect to T4 you may have mild hypoadrenalism.

    If you have an adrenal issue you can not jump into 125 mcgs of T4 with out the risk of being tossed into hyperthyroid supplemented Hades. You need adrenal testing. Sooner rather than later. How long have you been on the 125 mcgs? Four weeks? Get your levels check. It only takes 2 weeks for your blood levels to hit equilibrium and then another 2-4 weeks for your body to know whether or not you have too little or too much for your needs.

    Thyroid Peroxidase AB = 234.0 H Reference Range <35.0 IU/ML
    This is what proved you have Hashimoto's. Yes, Hashimoto's is reknowned for joint and muscle pain. However you have ANA and thus may have RA along with the Hashimoto's. When I was hyperT in T4 due to over supplementation my bones and joints ached. Too much T4 is well known to cause bone and joint issues.

    Having been on the meds almost a month, I am having no relief from the joint pain. I went to another rheumatoid doctor for a second opinion and blood work and other tests still show everything is normal. She wants to diagnose me with Psoriatic Arthritis, but I'm not convinced. There is no test to confirm that diagnosis -- -- I have skin rash + joint pain = Psoriatic Arthritis???
    You need to hold off until you are stabilized on your meds before you add a condition like that. I think you need to get a new thyroid panel run. Ft3 and Ft4 in addition to TSH. You also need your adrenal glands tested. Complete panel there:
    ACTH, Cortisol, Aldosterone, and DHEA - 8 am blood serum, fasting.
    Cortisol 24 saliva test
    ACTH stimulation test

    I hope you have relief soon. My joint issues are about gone now, but now I am getting close to balanced on my thyroid, adrenal, and hypoglycemic meds. It does take time. Most MDs believe you should be able to optimize in 6 months if you are testing your blood work and making adjustments as needed every 4-6 weeks.

    MG
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    Old 10-07-2008, 12:46 PM   #5
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Hi Jadip -

    I have terrible joint pain as one of my many symptoms, was dx'd with Hashi's and Fibromyalgia almost a year ago (I also have a borderline speckled ANA). After 8 months on thyroid meds the pain just wouldn't stop. After consulting several different docs and getting no relief, I finally consulted with a naturopath who knows about Hashi's. She suggested there may be foods that are aggravating symptoms and had me go on an elimination diet (eliminates all common food allergens). Within 3 weeks my pain was down from 6-7 out of 10 to about 1-2. I then reintroduced the allergen foods one at a time until I figured out my triggers. Each time I tried one of the offending foods my pain came back full force. Now I have to learn to go without wheat, gluten, dairy and nightshades but I have hardly any pain any more, it's unbelievable.

    I don't know if trying this would work for you, but it's non-invasive and painless (except for missing tomatoes, which are my favorite) and just might give you some relief. Good luck to you, I hope this helps.

     
    Old 10-08-2008, 05:38 PM   #6
    Jadip71
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Oh my gosh! Thank you so much for responding! I guess I feel somewhat validated now . My plan was to wait until the meds. had a chance to work before doing anything about the possible arthritis. I will check all my bloodwork (I have copies of it all) to see if any of the tests have been run or not. I know I did not do any fasting bloodwork, so I guess that may be in order. Good thing I have an appointment with the rhumy tomorrow. I'll be sure to bring along what needs to be done.

    I appreciate all the info about what my numbers really mean. I had no idea you could tell that much from them.

    The funny thing is that I went to a doctor today (chiropractor who also does supplements, muscle testing, etc). He said I am allergic to wheat and that I should eliminate it completely and that would likely help. Since the elimination diet has helped you, hopefully it will help me too.

    So, given that I will not be eating wheat as of tomorrow, we went out to eat at the Olive Garden! That restaurant will be virtually off limits when I am wheat free so this was my last hoorah.

    Thanks for the advice and keep it coming. The more I learn about this the better off I will be (and the better off we all can be - by learning from each other.)

    Jeanette

    P.S. Jadip is acronym for "Just Another Day in Paradise"... in case you were wondering.

     
    Old 10-09-2008, 02:46 AM   #7
    waratah
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jadip71 View Post

    I want to know from those of you with Hashimoto's if joint pain is something you had or have. Everyone talks about other symptoms on these boards, but what about joint pain?Just curious...

    Jeanette
    Hi Japid71,

    I was Dx Hashi's last year, and the joint pain and stiffness in toes, ankles, elbows, and especially knees, hips and lower back was excruciating - but of course no doc actually believed me cause I'm marginally euythroid. (TSH 4.5, low range T4 & T3's, antibodies 2,500+ ref:0-30 - go figure! )
    So there seem to be so many symptoms of Hashi's shared in common with other disorders that it seems nearly impossible to pin down the exact origin of each symptom. But from what I've read here, many other Hash's people also have aching stiff joints too in addition to a whole host of other symptoms.
    regards, waratah

    Alos, glad to hear you had success with the elimination diet. I'll have to investigage this too, may thanks,

    Last edited by waratah; 10-09-2008 at 02:48 AM.

     
    Old 10-09-2008, 07:21 AM   #8
    mkgb
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    When you have the bad bone aches you need to check your vit D levels. Low vit D can cause joint and bone pain. Hypothyroidism and low thyroid hormones often result in malabsorption of many key minerals and vitamins for us. Keeping an eye on your ferritin, vit D, B12, and magnesium levels and supplementing them to keep them in th 40-60% range of normal can take the edge off and relieve man symptoms. Until thyroid levels are optimized you will have to fight malabsorption with supplementation. Vit D is also known to help fight autoimmune issues. It never hurts to get it tested and supplement if necessary.

    MG
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    Old 10-09-2008, 08:25 AM   #9
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    MG is right - definitely check those levels! I'm deficient in Vit D and ferritin. I'm having a hard time getting my numbers up, but with lots of supplementation the numbers are finally starting to budge.

    Also, don't give up on Olive Garden! I just read on their web site a few days ago they have gluten free alternatives available. I'm assuming this means rice pasta instead of wheat pasta, ask the manager next time you go.

     
    Old 10-09-2008, 10:48 AM   #10
    k2626
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    Re: Help! Hashi and joint pain?

    Wow- I have had a simliar issue w pain for 4 months. I have also had however joint cracking-its VERY extreme, buzzing in my body and now muscle twitches all over.

    My joint pain however pulsates and bounces around anywhere from a second to hours....Sound like you?

    Do you have any other symptoms?

    Last edited by k2626; 10-09-2008 at 10:49 AM.

     
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