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    Old 09-30-2008, 06:33 PM   #1
    feelingblah
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    Sick or Crazy?

    I have a story like many here...

    28, female, 2 kids ('04 and '07), not taking any meds

    I feel like crap. Crap that was punched, kicked and thrown onto the floor.

    Labs:

    9/5
    TSH 2.63 (.60-3.30)
    T4 Free 0.91 (0.71-1.40)
    T3 Total 1.3 (1.0-1.7)

    Since the Endo (who insisted that I was fine and that there are NO symptoms with Hypo! And even felt the need to share that she saw someone with a TSH of 200 and he was just a little constipated...) refused to do any other testing I got my own labs just for piece of mind.

    9/26
    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) 46 (0-34 IU/mL)
    Antithyroglobulin <20 (0-40 IU/mL)

    TSH 2.158 (0.450-4.500 uIU/mL)
    Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.2 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)
    T4,Free(Direct) 1.03 (0.61-1.76 ng/dL)

    Symptoms:
    -- Fatigue. Debilitating fatigue and exhaustion. I can not make it through a day. Dr. said I was just too busy and I have two kids.
    -- Dizzy
    -- Shaking. So much so that it's hard to use a mouse or draw a straight line at times. Blood sugar has been tested twice and it's normal.
    -- Migraines. A couple a week and OTC meds don't help.
    -- Irregular periods. Usually short cycles but range from 25-33 days with 7-8 days of heavy bleeding and a lot of discomfort. Dr. said to go on BCP for this but I was told to never take BCP pills because of my high-ish blood pressure.
    -- Racing heart beat.
    -- Weight. I can NOT lose weight. I go to the gym several times a week, burning 2500-3000 calories a week according to my heart rate monitor. I've also been to a nutritionist and eat a strict vegetarian diet. There is no reason I shouldn't be losing weight. Dr. says my options are gastric bypass (even though I'm about 75-100 pounds too LIGHT for that), Alli, Weight Watchers, exercising twice as much, and that I'm just getting old and my metabolism is slowing. I'm only 28! Apparently that's old.
    -- Joint pain and popping. My back pops with every step. My knees are stiff and my big toe has hurt for over a month. I went to PT for my back. I was told that I'm just getting old.
    --Phlegm that is stuck in my throat. It must be cleared out (very unlady like) so that I can breathe and not feel like I'm suffocating. Dr. said it's just allergies. I've had this for 9 or so months? It's not allergies.
    -- I'm cold a lot. And sometimes burning up, but mostly cold.
    -- Constipation (ugh)
    -- Depression and anxiety
    -- Brain fog, forgetting what I was saying in the middle of a sentence, etc

    So I've seen two docs and one endo. They all insist I'm fine and that these problems are just in my head. I've been told to see a psych, take Cymbalta, I'm bi-polar, depressed, anxious, old, lazy, eat too much, etc, etc, etc.

    So are these labs really ok? Am I really just crazy? If it is my thyroid and none of the doctors will listen to me, how do I change that?

    Signed,
    Frustrated and feeling blah

     
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    Old 09-30-2008, 07:14 PM   #2
    Les3elles
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    Oh hun, hugs to you! Im not experienced enough to comment on your labs, but Im sure some of the vets will be more than happy to help you out! I was in your exact shoes about a week ago, if you look at my labs, you will see I am «normal» also, but feel like complete crap! Im so exhausted that I go home on lunch to nap in order to make it through the rest of my day! I too have seen doc after doc and told the same thing. You have 2 young kids, work full time and need to find time to relax and get some rest! No kidding? Never thought of that!!! Well my symptoms are exactly like yours!!
    Well here I am, 7 years after my first complaint and I am now on 3 different antî-depressants and hoping my labs will one day no longer be in the «normal» range!

    I wish I had better advice for you... the only thing I can suggest is go see a Naturopath; they tend to think outside the box and listen to YOU and work with YOU on finding a way to make you feel better... Best of luck to you! I know how you feel!
    Hugs..

    Angèle
    PS: Feel free to read my posts, you might get info on the labs since the Vets have commented and helped me through...
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    Old 10-01-2008, 03:08 AM   #3
    maxine0703
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    I had all your symptoms too, for years I felt like crap warmed up. I've had a couple of blood tests for Thyroid Disfuction but they all come back negative. The Doc has never give me my numbers, but I know my new doctor will want to do a blood test in the next month or so, so I'll be able to get them then. Thyroid issues run in my family, my nanna, my Mom and my aunt all developed it when they reached their early 30s.. But hey... felt like crap and my blood work was fine??... My symptoms just kept getting worse over the years and I just went to the docs last Friday... She said I have Hypothyroidism and put me on Levothyroxin, she wants me back in 6 weeks to see how I'm doing.
    I feel for you, I'm sorry to hear your symptoms are being ignored by Doctors... My suggestion would be to find a good doctor who is willing to listen to you, and piece together your symptoms.
    Let us know how you get on, you're not alone...
    These people are wonderful on this board.

     
    Old 10-01-2008, 09:16 AM   #4
    mkgb
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    Feelingblah,
    First let me welcome you to our thyroid dysfunctional family.

    28, female, 2 kids ('04 and '07), not taking any meds.
    Congratulations!

    I feel like crap. Crap that was punched, kicked and thrown onto the floor.
    Ahhh! The good old cow patty tossed in a fan to splatter about the room feeling. Yeap! Been there. An you are not crazy, but you are also not NORMAL! I am going to tell you what your labs and body are telling you.

    Labs:
    9/5
    TSH 2.63 (.60-3.30)
    Normal TSH range according to the A A C E is 0.3 - 2.5 since 2006. With Hashimoto's this range narrows to 0.3-2.0. You are hypothyroid by the 2006 recommended American Association of Clinical Endocrinology standards. You just need to find an MD that follows these guidelines.
    T4 Free 0.91 (0.71-1.40) You are at 28% of normal here this is suboptimal You should be in the 60-80% range of normal as a woman of child bearing age. Normal is not always optimal!
    T3 Total 1.3 (1.0-1.7) You are at 42% of normal here. There is a 20% source of error in the total T3 result.. so you have to take it with a grain of salt. Either way it is normally inflated in females and still suboptimal despite the probable artificial inflation.

    Since the Endo (who insisted that I was fine and that there are NO symptoms with Hypo! And even felt the need to share that she saw someone with a TSH of 200 and he was just a little constipated...) refused to do any other testing I got my own labs just for piece of mind.

    9/26
    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab 46 (0-34 IU/mL) THIS IS THE KICKER! Congratulations ~ You have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Your body is killing off your thyroid. It most likely was trigger by or during your pregnancy. When did your symptoms begin to manifest. You need your children to have a yearly antibody, TSH, FT4, and FT3 check so that you have a good baseline for them and will know if any of your antibodies crossed the placenta barrier to effect them. My levels were in the 1000's my son tests out fine. So this is just for their future health and knowledge given an increased chance of developing a thyroid issue.
    Antithyroglobulin (TGAb) <20 (0-40 IU/mL) You only need one positive TPOAb or TGAb top prove Hashimoto's thyroiditis. However you are not at 0 here you do have some and your levels will and can fluctuate.

    TSH 2.158 (0.450-4.500 uIU/mL)
    Still positive for hypothyroidism given the 2.00 upper limit for patients with positive antibody levels. If you find an MD that goes by the 2006 A A C E thyroid recommendations they will try and get you into a TSH range between 1-1.5 with Ft levels in the 50-80% range of normal.
    Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.2 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL) This is 47% of normal. Okay.. this is suboptimal, BUT just out of balance with your Ft4 results. You need to test your DHEA, cortisol and ACTH as well as T4 uptake.. which is named T3 uptake ( I do not know why they have reverse philosophy here..) I suspect that your low thyroid function is effecting your adrenals and causing them to be a bit hypo as well.

    T4,Free(Direct) 1.03 (0.61-1.76 ng/dL)
    This is still at 36% of normal. Suboptimal, and the reason you feel like minced cow patty!

    Symptoms:
    -- Fatigue. Debilitating fatigue and exhaustion. I can not make it through a day. Dr. said I was just too busy and I have two kids. Subclinical hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's.. not just two kids.

    -- Dizzy Hashimoto's, low ferritin, low B12 can cause this.

    -- Shaking. So much so that it's hard to use a mouse or draw a straight line at times. Blood sugar has been tested twice and it's normal. Low cortisol, reactive hypoglycemia (need to test with a GTT), and Hashimoto's can cause this.

    -- Migraines. A couple a week and OTC meds don't help. Low B12 and magnesium can cause this.. as well as Hashimoto's.

    -- Irregular periods. Usually short cycles but range from 25-33 days with 7-8 days of heavy bleeding and a lot of discomfort. Dr. said to go on BCP for this but I was told to never take BCP pills because of my high-ish blood pressure. This is often a sign of adrenal dysfunction and hypothyroidism.
    -- Racing heart beat. Hashimoto's and adrenal dysfunction.
    -- Weight. I can NOT lose weight. I go to the gym several times a week, burning 2500-3000 calories a week according to my heart rate monitor. I've also been to a nutritionist and eat a strict vegetarian diet. There is no reason I shouldn't be losing weight. Dr. says my options are gastric bypass (even though I'm about 75-100 pounds too LIGHT for that), Alli, Weight Watchers, exercising twice as much, and that I'm just getting old and my metabolism is slowing. I'm only 28! Apparently that's old. You need to get a new MD and test for hypoglycemia and insulin resistance, you also need your adrenal function tested and your Hashimoto's PROACTIVELY TREATED, Give this donkey a steel boot up the a.. backside!

    -- Joint pain and popping. My back pops with every step. My knees are stiff and my big toe has hurt for over a month. I went to PT for my back. I was told that I'm just getting old. You need a thorough blood chemistry and mineral panel checked with Magnesium, B12, vit D, and ferritin written in
    --Phlegm that is stuck in my throat. It must be cleared out (very unlady like) so that I can breathe and not feel like I'm suffocating. Dr. said it's just allergies. I've had this for 9 or so months? It's not allergies. Another symptom of Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism


    -- I'm cold a lot. And sometimes burning up, but mostly cold. Another symptom of Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism
    -- Constipation (ugh) Another symptom of Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism
    -- Depression and anxiety Another symptom of Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism
    -- Brain fog, forgetting what I was saying in the middle of a sentence, etc Another symptom of Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism and low ferritin/B12

    So I've seen two docs and one endo. They all insist I'm fine and that these problems are just in my head. I've been told to see a psych, take Cymbalta, I'm bi-polar, depressed, anxious, old, lazy, eat too much, etc, etc, etc.

    So are these labs really ok? Am I really just crazy? If it is my thyroid and none of the doctors will listen to me, how do I change that?


    You have to ditch the duds and keep looking you are where I was five years ago. It took me MANY MDs and five years to get treatment. DO not give up. You can fax the results to your Endo and as about the 2006 A A C E recommendations for treating Hashimoto's with TSH's over 2.. but that might tick him off. Most Endos are closed minded.. I am stopping the rant. I recommend calling about integrative care medicine offices near you. Take your labs and find out which one treats symptoms AND positive subclinical hypothyroid Hashimoto's patients. 25-50 mcgs of T4 would do you a world of good as long as the adrenal issues are checked out first.

    Look over some post of mine.. I think you will find them illuminating. I felt like I had stepped back in time reading your post.

    Hashimoto's and Pregnancy thread...
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=585150[/url]

    My story and the start of my Hashimoto's care and concerns thread series..
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=595898[/url]

    Week 2 thyroid care and concerns that goes into the basics of labs and other thyroid issues..
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=597479[/url]

    Week 3 - This goes into Hasimoto's and the cow patty hitting the fan symptomology.
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=599141[/url]

    There are seven weeks worth. Hopefull you will find these helpful. You are not ALONE, and you are not CRAZY or LAZY. You are suffering from autoimmune thyroid disease and need the treatment deserving of such. Getting the treatment we deserve is OFTEN a hard fought battle.

    MG
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    Old 10-01-2008, 03:43 PM   #5
    Meep
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    Just a quick answer. What are you using as a protein source in your diet? If it is soy, STOP, back up and step away form it in exchange for something that isn't known to cause the very symptoms you describe.

    Soy Isoflavones interfere with both the manufacture and the use of thyroid hormones, as well as other health problems, as well. Do a search for Soy on this board and read some of the threads. There is quite a bit of good information here. Do a web search on the dangers of soy and read some of information. Most of the "healthy benefits" of soy are attributed to the very chemicals in it that are causing your problems. These "benefits" are largely lies and marketing hype that have not been substantiated by proper studies.
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    Old 10-01-2008, 06:56 PM   #6
    feelingblah
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    I never knew about the soy problems until I started reading here. I don't eat much 'fake meat' soy, maybe once or twice a month or less. I do eat tofu quite a bit - maybe twice a week.

    Once I got the lab results in I asked a doctor-friend about them. He said that the antibodies were not at a level high enough where they treat them. I thought that any antibodies were bad since there are supposed to be none?

    I don't remember feeling this horrible inbetween kid 1 and 2. I have never felt normal since #2 was born in late April '07. I developed gallstones and started having attacks 2 weeks postpartum and my gallbladder came out about 6 weeks later. So recovery from a c-section plus gallbladder surgery plus a horrible bout of post partum depression left me feeling like crap through the end of the year really. I can specifically remember these symptoms starting in February or so of this year (and they could have started earlier I just didn't realize with everything else going on). They've been getting much worse since May though. Kid #2 goes to the ped this month so I'll definitely get him tested.

    It's interesting that you mention B12 a lot. I've wondered if I have a deficiency in that because of being a vegetarian.

    I asked my GP about metabolic syndrome in May and she came to the conclusion that I did not have it. (But I have no confidence in any of her opinions...) I have some basic labs from May but Mag, B12, Vit D and Ferritin were not tested.

    After reading the first couple replies I started looking for a new doc and found an integrative office and I made an appointment there for Tuesday. I really hope they listen... really, really hope...

    As for the T4... is there one brand that is better than another? And I see Armour mentioned a lot, although the way it's made totally grosses me out, is that something I should ask about?

    I'm going to compile all this into a big list to take with me. I can not thank you all enough. I've never been so happy to be diagnosed with some sort of disease

    Off to go read more...

     
    Old 10-01-2008, 07:40 PM   #7
    mkgb
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    Which T4 level is best for you will have to be determined by trial and error.

    Armour is good if you need T3 supplementation. This occurs when you have a conversion issue and your Ft3 levels are lower than your FT4 levels. SO Armour is an option if you need it. 2 out of three individuals tend to need T3 supplementation. Listen to your blood on that one. You may have had Hashi's wake up after pregnancy one.. but given your antibody levels I bet the second pregnancy triggered it. if it was triggered later in the pregnancy then that is a positive thing. Did they test your TSH during pregnancy? Did you have nausea? All day and night, through out your pregnancy? I have noted other Hashi's sufferers complaining about morning noon and night sickness. I had it from week 4 to week 36.

    MG
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    Old 10-07-2008, 10:05 AM   #8
    feelingblah
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    Re: Sick or Crazy?

    I made a bit of progress today. I'm guessing he doesn't see many patients who research day and night and order their own blood tests...

    He did say that the labs from 9/5 weren't perfect. The later labs that show the antibodies (once he got over how the heck I was able to get blood tests without a doctor asking for them) he said weren't horrible but weren't great either. He looked at some labs I had from this summer that showed high eosinophils (the range went up to 500 and mine was 1500) and my (former) GP said since that was the only number that was high it must have been a lab error. Today's doc said no, that some sort of allergic response and drew some blood to further investigate that.

    He said that the books don't normally say to medicate for a borderline thyroid but he did give me a script for Armour 30mg to try. I asked about cortisol and he drew blood for that and said the test isn't very accurate. From reading here, saliva is better? I didn't want to push my luck too much since I was already doing so. I go back in a month for a followup...

    The pharmacy was out of the Armour but they'll have it tomorrow... now to go find the posts that talk about when to take what ... he also wants me to take a multivitamin and omega-3...

    And for MG on when this started ... I've never felt normal since baby #2 in 4/07. I started getting random symptoms in Feb-April and by May-June I couldn't ignore it. It's been intolerable since July-August. I didn't have all day sickness past 14 or so weeks? I'm not aware of any TSH draws during the pregnancy.

    Thank you all for helping me stand up to him (a little bit at least!).

    Last edited by feelingblah; 10-07-2008 at 10:10 AM.

     
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