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  • Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

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    Old 10-03-2008, 05:37 PM   #1
    one2wonder
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    Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    Ok, here's the skinny...

    Heavy Metals came back ok
    Estradiol 192
    Estrone 221
    T3, Reverse 46 (11-32)
    Pregnenolone 178 (7-188)
    Epstein Barr IGM AB Negative
    Epstein Barr IGG AB 2.57 (positive)
    Cytomegalovirus Negative
    DHEA Sulfate 151 (40-325)
    FSH 8.1
    LH 31.9
    Progesterone 1.8
    Testosterone, Total 47 (2-45)
    Testosterone, Free % .83 (.50-2)
    Testosterone, Free 3.9 (.1-6.4)
    T3 Uptake 31
    Cortisol AM 14.9 (4-22)
    Candida (there were three types...the IGA came back high, at 1.5 and ref range is >1.0 means positive)

    Based on these tests he said I am lacking T3 and need some. He suggested either adding 5mg of Cytomel to my 100 of Synthroid I am currently taking or going to 90mg (1.5 grain) of Armour. I didn't know what to do, but thought both of those dosages were too much. We went with 1 grain of Armour for now. I am due to retest first part of Dec.

    He prescribed natural progesterone stating my progesterone was too low, estrogen too high and testosterone too high. He said estrogen and testosterone should balance out with taking progesterone.

    He also prescribed oral antifungal for the systemic candida. He said that epstein barr is positive (I had mono as a child) but other stuff should be dealt with first. I am not sure if the titer for that really means it is in "active" mode now or now.

    How does all of this sound? Anyway, I am nervous about doing the Armour. Should I have gone with the Cytomel/Synthroid combo? Someone...please tell me what you think.

     
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    Old 10-03-2008, 06:55 PM   #2
    jrose1358
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    I tried a cytomel/synthroid combo and didn't like it at all. The cytomel gave me a pit feeling in my stomach. Jus never felt right. I am now on 30 to 60 mg armour and 112 to 125 mcg synthroid. My doctor lets me adjust it on my own according to my symptoms. At the moment I am doing well on 112 mcg synthroid and 30 mg armour but I do occasionally have to adjust one or the other up slightly. I go in for blood work every 2-3 months. I LOVE the combination. My body seems to stay more stable and energy levels more constant on the combo versus one or the other alone. I did go through a period of time where I couldn't tolerate the armour and had to drop it but have gone back to it with no problems. Hope this helps Blessings - jrose

     
    Old 10-03-2008, 07:46 PM   #3
    one2wonder
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    JRose,
    Thanks for your input. Do you think I should give the Armour a try? I am just so tired of feeling crappy. This doc said he's been prescribing Armour for 25 years or so. I am just beating myself up wondering if I should do the cyto/synthroid instead. He said if I do the Armour and it doesn't work well, we could try the synthroid/cytomel combo instead.

     
    Old 10-04-2008, 04:35 AM   #4
    one2wonder
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    Anybody think I should wait until oral antifungal and progesterone kicks in before I initiate Armour? I asked the doc if either of those two issues could mess up my t3 conversion and he said no. I'm a basket case. He gave me the prescription for the Armour...I just don't know what to do. Debating on whether to start it today or not. I've called a couple of pharmacists and asked their opinion. They said I should give it a try.

    Edited to add: After I called yet another pharmacist, I decided to give it a try. We'll see how it works. I guess I am just scared because of varying info out there about thyroid meds.

    Last edited by one2wonder; 10-04-2008 at 05:31 AM. Reason: add

     
    Old 10-04-2008, 09:14 AM   #5
    SHMILY
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    You can't make a better choice than Armour. I would take it and if it makes you a little hyper, back off a little and increase it gradually. It will be a lot more gentle than your other choice.

    Cyntomel and Synthroid were very bad for me. Synthroid by itself nearly crippled me, and Cyntomel was not near as gentle as the T3 in the Armour.

    Last edited by SHMILY; 10-04-2008 at 09:18 AM.

     
    Old 10-04-2008, 04:33 PM   #6
    jrose1358
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    I agree with shmily. Try the armour. Many, Many people use it and love it. It was never good for me alone but the combination of synthroid and armour is like magic. Somehow it keeps me feeling even and good on a consistent basis. If it makes you hyper then cut it in half and take half in the morning and half in the late afternoon. I do that alot. Give it a go and let us know how you are doing and everyone can help you through it.

    There is nothing to fear from thyroid meds. If your thyroid isn't producing what you need, then you need to replace it. Your body needs it. Hugs - jrose

     
    Old 10-05-2008, 05:34 AM   #7
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    How did you know you needed the armour/synthroid combo?

     
    Old 10-05-2008, 02:51 PM   #8
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    I originally started with a Holistic MD and when I look back now? She was right about everything........including to stay away from Milk......I found her notes last night and she was so right on about so many things.....she referred me out to and Endo due to my nodules.. Oh Well, I eventually would like to go back to her.......

    Yes your progesterone as it increases should balance out your test and estrogen.....progesterone cream gave me mild bloating, headache and increased monthly bleeding...I also seemed to gain weight on it....so I did not stick with it but 8 months......but all the reading says it works.

    Not sure about Epstien Barr being positive? I had mono and mine is negative so I think you should follow up on that......good thing it was checked.

    I was started on Armour and over 2 years got up to 3 1/2 Grains....I recently just switched to Thyrolar2 and Cytomel and feel great.....I would let them do the combo... it made a huge difference in how I felt.......the Armour alone was just not helping me. Amour agreed with me but my T4 kept falling.

    Your Doctor sounds thorough........I was wonder if he felt your DHEA was high enough......sometimes they like to see it higher.

    Keep us posted......sounds good to me..........Oleander

     
    Old 10-06-2008, 05:26 AM   #9
    jrose1358
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by one2wonder View Post
    How did you know you needed the armour/synthroid combo?
    I knew I needed to do something when I just couldn't get stabilized on synthroid alone. The addition of the armour just evened things right out and the difference in how I feel on a daily basis is amazing. Like Oleander, I tried armour alone but couldn't keep the T4 up. The combo works for me! jrose

     
    Old 10-06-2008, 05:57 AM   #10
    mkgb
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    Wonder, I am going to reorganize your results a bit. Pardon my OCD.

    Thyroid:
    T3, Reverse 46 (11-32) This indicates that your body has a tendency to improperly convert your T4 to rT3 versus the T3 you actually can use. Administering the 5 mg of cytomel with your T4 might be the best start. If that doesn't work, you can start with 30 mg of Armour and 50 mcg synthroid. I think an immediate swap to 90 mg of Armour may be a bit much. You can always start with 2.5 mg of cytomel taken bidaily.. and ease into the 5 mg that way.
    T3 Uptake 31 This is good.

    Immuno profiles:

    Epstein Barr IGM AB Negative
    Epstein Barr IGG AB 2.57 (positive) You have had mono which is one of the triggers for Hashimoto's thyroiditis activation
    Cytomegalovirus Negative
    Candida (there were three types...the IGA came back high, at 1.5 and ref range is >1.0 means positive) Fungal infection present. They are buggers to clear out.

    Female Hormones: LH/FSH ratio is 3.9. When dealing with a ratio of greater than 3 one should look into PCOS. It is the main indicator of polycystic ovary syndrome. I just got diagnosed with it. Ask your MD to look into it if you haven't been tested and confirmed. previously. What part of your cycle were you in? Were you with in 5 days of ovulating? 12-16 days post period? It makes a difference in the estrogen, testosterone, and FSH and LH test results.

    FSH 8.1
    LH 31.9

    Adrenal Hormones:

    Your estrogen looks high. What were the ranges? Did he mention anything about this? I would ask him about it and ask him too look into PCOS and insulin resistance to be sure. They tend to go hand in hand.
    Estradiol 192
    Estrone 221
    Pregnenolone 178 (7-188) This is a bit high. You may have a conversion issue going on.
    DHEA Sulfate 151 (40-325)
    Progesterone 1.8 This is low, but mine is lower.

    An ACTH stimulation test looking at how all these hormones change under stress will be the best way to determine if there is a flaw in your adrenal conversion mechanisms. Right now I can not be sure.

    Testosterone, Total 47 (2-45) This is high, but the test accuracy is not as good as the free test. Looking at the free test you are at 60%. Depending on when you are in your cycle this may be high and correspond to a PCOS finding.
    Testosterone, Free % .83 (.50-2)
    Testosterone, Free 3.9 (.1-6.4)
    Cortisol AM 14.9 (4-22) This is 60%. This is optimal in range. You may benefit from a small touch of DHEA supplementation. But with out a cortisol saliva rhythm test or ACTH stim determined cortisol conversion flaw your blood test looks good.


    We went with 1 grain of Armour for now. I am due to retest first part of Dec.
    I think this is fine, but you may feel in 7-10 days that your hypoT symptoms are going to return due to too little T4 present.

    He prescribed natural progesterone stating my progesterone was too low, estrogen too high and testosterone too high. He said estrogen and testosterone should balance out with taking progesterone.
    Well this is good. Ask him if he suspects PCOS. I bet he does. Then ask for insulin resistance testing.

    He also prescribed oral antifungal for the systemic candida. He said that epstein barr is positive (I had mono as a child) but other stuff should be dealt with first. I am not sure if the titer for that really means it is in "active" mode now or now.
    Once you have mono you test positive for the test you had. The antifungal is going to be fun, but will help in the long run.

    How does all of this sound? Anyway, I am nervous about doing the Armour. Should I have gone with the Cytomel/Synthroid combo? Someone...please tell me what you think. Armour is good for many. It is a natural and safe way to get your T3. Some have a harsher reaction to the cytomel. The choice will be up to you and you will have to determine how much and what method you need to follow to get the best results. It sounds like you may just have a thyroid MD keeper. I am glad you founf this MD.

    I am wishing you the best of care.
    MG
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    Old 10-06-2008, 05:57 AM   #11
    one2wonder
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    I'm doing the progesterone capsules b/c I was kind of paranoid about the cream. I didn't want it to rub off on anyone or anything. I am just scared, I guess. I hate the thought of feeling crappy any longer.

    My last tests on 9/5 on just the 100 mcg of Synthtoid were:
    TSH .76 (.4-4.5)
    FT4 1.7 (.8-1.8)
    FT3 307 (230-420)

    I then came to this doc. I looked at the Armour website and the converter said that the 100 mcg of Synthroid that I was on is equal to 60 mg (1grain) of Armour. I am wondering how this will affect me. He had wanted to put me on 90mg of Armour, but I said I thought it was too high. How long do you think I should start to feel differently?

     
    Old 10-06-2008, 06:03 AM   #12
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    I think I would have asked to be tappered off the synthroid and onto the Armour. You had too much T4 that was not being converted to T3 in your system. That is what the above optimal FT4 and suboptimal FT3 are telling you. Armour has a natural ratio of T4:T3. Some people do not need that high of a ratio and need to supplement by T4 alone. Cutting back to a half dose of T4 and adding 1 grain of Armour would be a safe and slow initiation into T3 supplementation. I do not think there is anything wrong with wanting to ease into T3 supplementation slowly.

    MG
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    Old 10-06-2008, 06:08 AM   #13
    one2wonder
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    MG,

    As far as my period, I just started yesterday. My last one was Aug 30, so I am not sure whether I even ovulated or not....sorry for TMI My periods have always been wacky (45-90 days between them) Since I had started the Synthroid, they went down to 35-42 between. I was told I have PCOS about 6 yrs ago or so by an RE. They wanted to give me Clomid and I said no thanks. This doc said that my estrogen was too high when he added the estradiol and estrone together, and that I needed the progesterone to counteract it, otherwise it could put me at risk for cancers. He also said that the progesterone would help alleviate other symptoms I had. I am not sure the range for the estrogen as I don't know where exactly I was in my cycle. They are listed here on the lab sheet, but there are several.

     
    Old 10-06-2008, 06:13 AM   #14
    one2wonder
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    He has the lab order dated the for the first week of Dec. Do you think I should call and see if I could do it the end of the week of Nov 17? That would be 7 weeks from my appt. I just don't want to feel like crap for the holidays.

    Do you think 7 weeks would be good timing to recheck thyroid tests (tsh, ft3, ft4), testosterone, candida, and progesterone. Those are what he wants to recheck.

    I just don't know what to do. I started the 1 gr of Armour on Saturday. Crappy thing is you can't get your labs before the appt and he doesn't like to see you until about two weeks after labs drawn to make sure they are in. I remember there being a sign about having to have an appt to discuss labs. I wonder if that would preclude me from picking a copy up prior to the appt so I can formulate any questions.

    Last edited by one2wonder; 10-06-2008 at 06:17 AM.

     
    Old 10-06-2008, 06:36 AM   #15
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    Re: Results in from Holistic MD...thoughts? Pls Hlp

    Crap. Now I am wondering if I should have done the syn/cyto combo.

     
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