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  • Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

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    Old 10-11-2008, 02:22 PM   #1
    Rosy22
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    Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    How common is it to have hypothyroid and PCOS? Have been diagnosed with PCOS but suspect I may have hypothyroid also from the information I have been researching.

     
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    Old 10-12-2008, 10:02 AM   #2
    mmmcoffee
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    I don't know about a correlation. But I have PCOS and hypo and had my thyroid removed because of nodules etc.

    mmmcoffee

     
    Old 10-13-2008, 06:16 PM   #3
    Oleander53
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    There are several of us on here that have PCOS or PCOD and thyroid disease.

    At my age now they call it Insulin resistance but I knew many years ago I had a mild form of PCOS......luckily it was mild. I am on Janumet now twice a day and it has made a huge difference in how I feel..

    My PCOS was mild but it was there.....

    I probably have had thryoid issues for years but have been symptomatic for the last 7 years and on medication the last 2 years......I also have a multinodular goiter....

    In PCOS you will see high triglyerides and lipids , weight gain around tummy, inability to lose weight, irregular periods or periods without ovulation....sometimes more than normal body hair, high blood pressure, low magnesium, difficulty in getting pregnant, fatigue, depression and mood swings........ Many of these symptoms are also present in thyroid issues. I could not figure out why I did not feel better when treated for hypothyroidism but it turned out when treated for insulin resistance I felt 100% better........I am being treated for both now........amazing how much better I feel...... and my cholesterol and triglycerides are normal for the first time in 20 years....

    Let us know what is going on with you.....

    My Endo feels there is a connection........ Oleander

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 06:53 AM   #4
    mkgb
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    Well I am not certain that studies have been done on that as of yet. I have Hashimoto's, hypothyroidism, a side order of Graves Disease, hypoadrenalism, insulin resistance, reactive hypoglycemia, AND PCOS. Got my final labs in confirming the hypoglycemia and PCOS it yesterday. Whee! Since discovering my Hashimoto's and my thyroid beginning to take the old dirt nap last July, I have had one endocrine system after another failing. It is quite interesting to watch and experience. I am just glad I can put on my scientist perspective and see it as a challenge and learning opportunity.

    MG
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    Old 10-14-2008, 08:29 AM   #5
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    MKG - What is the difference between reactive hypoglycemia and insulin resistance?

    Rosy - I think I read somewhere that people who have thyroid issues are more prone to develop PCOS, but I don't think having PCOS is a precursor to developing thyroid disease. Still, there are many on these boards who have both.

    Last edited by Heckofagal; 10-14-2008 at 08:34 AM.

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 08:55 AM   #6
    mkgb
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    By definition:

    Reactive hypoglycemia is when one has plasma glucose drops measuring < 2.8 mmol/L – US: < 50 mg/dl with symptoms of adrenergic neural activation. Adrenergic neural activation symptoms are weakness, palpitations, tremor, sweating and hunger, occurring after a meal or after oral glucose loading, caused by compensatory insulin hypersecretion. Insulin resistance can be the source or cause of reactive hypoglycemia.

    I just went over this with my MD and a nutricionist RN yesterday. My take on insulin resistance is that it is a condition resulting from the diminished capacity of your cells to respond to the call of your insulin in transporting glucose (sugar) from the bloodstream into muscle and other tissues on a cellular level. Insulin resistance typically develops with obesity, my MD and Rn said they normally see it in hypothyroid patients that were left untreated for a long period of time. Having IR heralds the onset of type 2 diabetes if not managed well enough with glucophauges (metaformin), diet, and exercise. Getting weight off and living healthy is essential.

    The mechanism is as insulin "knocks" on the door of cell to process sugar for muscle needs, The muscle cells hear the knock, open up, and let glucose in. But with insulin resistance, the muscle cells do not hear or respond to the knocking of the insulin (the muscle cells are "resistant"). Early on during this condition the pancreas makes more insulin to compensate, which increases insulin levels in the blood and causes a louder "knocking action". Eventually, the pancreas produces far more insulin than normal and the glucose instead of fueling the muscles fuels fat pockets in our tummy and thighs. The fat cells then result in increased estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, triglycerides.. low HDL higher LDL and much more. While this is going on the pancreas is continually being hit every time you eat in excess or eat poor choice foods. Eventually the sporadic insulin floods damage the pancreas and will lead to diabetes 2. Now if you catch this early enough and work with the right medications to manage all issue causing the excess weight and poor metabolic function, then you should be able to keep it in check. You will not magically have a return of the cellular doorman, but the extended release glucophages DO work well. The only issue is the first week you will have to deal with diarrhea and gas issues. I have been on mine for just under 2 weeks. My muscle cramping and aches have almost stopped. I thought it was just low potassium. NOPE, my muscles have been operating and being tortured during my exercise routines from a lack of energy reserve replensihment.

    Insulin resistance is a bugger to catch and identify. Your MD has to be willing to look into everything, insulin, blood sugar, adrenal function.. etc. As long as your pancrease can produce enough insulin to overcome this resistance, blood glucose levels remain normal. Only a GTT catches the initial tail tale reactive hypoglycemia. Once the pancreas is no longer able to keep up due to over use and damage, blood glucose levels start to rise. This will happen initially after meals and eventually even in the fasting state. But this is too late. If you can cathc it early with a simple test and you have any of the symptoms of hypoglycemia, then it is worth testing and adding the right medication to stave off Overt Type 2 diabetes.

    Just my non-MD take on things. I believe reactive hypoglycemia and insulin resistance together are noted as a broad classification - prediabetes. Not sure but I think that is how my MD referred to both conditions. AND my Endos missed it. What are Endos supposed to do again?

    MG
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    Old 10-14-2008, 10:12 AM   #7
    Rosy22
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    That was wonderful explantion!

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 10:22 AM   #8
    mkgb
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    I am known for my lectures. I am a teacher at heart. SO I tend to give WTMI, but I try to put it in laymans terms. If anything wizzes by just shout out and ask another question. Someone will jump on it here. Man is it an active board.

    MG
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    Old 10-14-2008, 10:38 AM   #9
    Rosy22
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    MG:
    I was wondering if you might have some input about these test results. I think it indicates hypo, would like to hear your thoughts.
    TSH 4.12 (027-4.2)
    T4 7.2 ( 4.0-12.0)
    Free T4 1.16 (.93-1.7)
    Total T3 (.95 (.8-2.0)
    Thyroglobulin Ab <8 (<10.0)
    Microsomal Ab <3.0 (<5.0)

    Symtpoms are all the PCOS ( loss of periods, acne, thinning of hair ) also feeling cold when others don't and strange itching in legs when exercising.

    Appreciate all input.

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 10:39 AM   #10
    sey
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    Hi are you guys on about polycystic ovary syndrome or have l read wrong? lol Ps mg is so brainy!!!

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 10:51 AM   #11
    mkgb
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rosy22 View Post
    MG:
    I was wondering if you might have some input about these test results. I think it indicates hypo, would like to hear your thoughts.
    TSH 4.12 (027-4.2)
    T4 7.2 ( 4.0-12.0)
    Free T4 1.16 (.93-1.7)
    Total T3 (.95 (.8-2.0)
    Thyroglobulin Ab <8 (<10.0)
    Microsomal Ab <3.0 (<5.0)

    Symtpoms are all the PCOS ( loss of periods, acne, thinning of hair ) also feeling cold when others don't and strange itching in legs when exercising.

    Appreciate all input.
    You need a TPOAb run. Your MD ran the old hashimoto's markers that show that you have some antibodies, just not an excessive amount at this time.

    TSH 4.12 (027-4.2) according to the latest recommended normal range by the American Association of Endocrinology your lab is not up to date.. nor is your MD. In 2002 this range was refined to 0.3-3.0. In 2006 it was further refined to 0,3-2.5. Hashimoto's patients have an amendment stating we should be less than 2. By current A A C E standards you are hypothyroid.

    T4 7.2 ( 4.0-12.0)
    this test has 20% error inherent in it.. it is just an approximate measure and should be taken with a pile of salt. This test says you are 40% in range. For a woman of childbearing age you should be 60-80% in range for optimal thyroid function. You are suboptimal. I bet that given your PCOS your FT4 is in the septic tank.. AHAH!

    Free T4 1.16 (.93-1.7)
    29% of normal range .. 11% lower than your T4 result. High estrogen levels artificially inflate T4 and T3 values. the Ft4 value is a direct measure of your active thyroid hormone there is a 2.5-5% source of error in the technique according to the N A C B.

    Total T3 0.95 (.8-2.0)
    Note this value has a 20% bias to it as well. You need an FT3 to know where your ACTUAL T3 levels lie. You are at 12.5 % of normal range here. This is really low.

    Depending on your next Ft4 and Ft3 testing and the resulting balance you may be one of the two out of three that needs a bit of T3 supplementation. Your levels are suboptimal and if you are trying to get your cycles straight and hormones regulated you need to treat your hypothyroidism. Now to do that you are going to have to find a competent thyroid savvy MD. They are not easy to find.

    MG
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    Old 10-14-2008, 11:50 AM   #12
    Rosy22
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    Thank you! If anyone has suggestions for how to locate doc, it would be appreciated.

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 12:59 PM   #13
    Rosy22
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    American Association of Endocrinology

    I have been searching the website of this association looking for the 2006 Guidelines but have not been able to locate them. Does anyone have a link or happen to know where they are listed?

     
    Old 10-14-2008, 08:46 PM   #14
    Oleander53
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    MKG........I am a nerd, jock, I study the Endocrine system and play on a softball team..I kayak and ride horses....I also play music and take dance lessons. I also have diarrhea of the mouth !!!!

    I have Hashi's, multinodular goiter, Insulin resistance ( old for PCOS), and controlled high blood pressure. Now a milk allergy???? A milk allergy at 55? Very weird.

    Rosey,

    I will ask someone I know about a good Doctor in Florida..Where abouts are you?

    Oleander

     
    Old 10-15-2008, 05:24 AM   #15
    mkgb
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    Re: Hypothyroid and PCOS - Do they go together??

    A milk allergy at 55 is not uncommon given the insulin resistance. My RN nutricionist said many of his older patients could not tolerate the lactose sugar in milk and began to react poorly over time as a result of the insulin resistance. What is your allergic response? Rash, itchies, mucus excess, anaphalaxis?

    I guess that my nerdiness may be the result of my condition... NOT!!! I just wanted to be better than my older brother at all things.

    Rose,
    Having the largest city near you will help us look into possible MDs for you.

    MG
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    Last edited by mkgb; 10-15-2008 at 11:02 AM.

     
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