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    Old 10-14-2008, 10:59 AM   #1
    4mykids2
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    Feel worse with meds

    I am newly dx with hypothyroid, and started in sythroid. Now I fell worse than before. My joints and muscles ache real bad. Is this common to feel this way after starting the meds., and if so how long might I expect it to last?

     
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    Old 10-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #2
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    What dosage are you on and what were your TSH, FT3, and Ft4 levels and ranges before you started taking your meds? How many days have you been taking synthroid? Do you have Hashimoto's thyroiditis? Did your MD test for it?

    An increase in joint pain and muscle aches can happen as a result of long starved portions of your body coming back on line with the addition of needed thyroid hormone. However low vit D, ferritin, magnesium, potassium, and vit B12 can also have similar side effects. These issues can be aggravated as newly added thyroid hormone increases your body's demand for key nutrients and vitamins.

    SO if you haven't had your: vit D, B12, Ferritin, Magnesium and potassium tested recently you should get them done. Also if your MD failed to test you for Hashimoto's you need to get him to request the following lab coded tests TPOAb and TGAb. Also if your MD has not tested your Ft4 and FT3, He needs a V8 head slap and should run them as well. In the mean time you should be MD shopping with someone a little more up to date and thorough in thyroid care and management. When did your MD want you to come back in for a level recheck. Please say 4-6 weeks or 6-8 weeks at worse. If he pushed you off to 3 months or 6 months I have a steel toed boot you can borrow.

    MG
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    Old 10-14-2008, 11:35 PM   #3
    4mykids2
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    thanks for the reply. I'm new to this so I don't know all the abbriviations for the blood work. My dr. did say that I have the autoimmune antibodies? does that mean hashitmotos? I am to see the dr in 6 weeks to have the blood work done again. Sometimes drs make me irritates. THey seem to take things so lightly, but its our health that they are dealing with. I think that the T3 and T4 were in the normal range. I'll have to get a copy of the results,
    Thanks again

     
    Old 10-15-2008, 05:36 AM   #4
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    If you are hypothyroid and have positive antibodies then you are talking Hashimoto's thyroiditis. If you started on 25 mcgs of thyroxine then you most likely will have a drop in levels. Many people when initially starting thyroid meds begin to feel worse their second week, becaue their thyroid has reduced its T4 production resulting in an increased thyroid hormone deficite. In others the bodymetabolism begins to wake up deprived systems and the overall T4/T3 demand in your system increases.

    Six weeks from the on set of medicine is reasonable, but if you have excessive hypothyroid symptoms call and see if you can get a blood work draw scheduled at 4 weeks. It takes time for Free Thyroxine (FT4) and Free Triiodothyronine (FT3) to be processed in the labs. Normal is often not optimal. If you get the copy of your labs and ranges I can tell you where you are in range and statistically where you should be according to current studies.

    It is hard for some one that isn't hypothyroid or hyperthyroid to understand how such a small pain in the neck gland can cause SOOOO MMUUUCCCHHHH trouble. Most MDs take it lightly because their bedside manner needs work, others don't care and you are just one more cow to brand and hustle down the shute. It is the rare MD that takes the time to listen, evaluate your symptoms and blood work, AND actually dig about til the find and treat the source of your issues. Like any industry, the MEDICAL industry has good manufacturer's and poor ones. You also do not always get what you pay for.

    I am sorry you are going through this. It will get better. You are not alone. We understand and will help where we can. Welcome to our thyroid dysfunctional family.

    MG
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    Old 10-15-2008, 04:33 PM   #5
    4mykids2
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    I have my lab reports, I hope they make sense
    Free t4 .78
    T3, Totoal 1.00
    TSH 6.67
    Thyr. Antibodies 96.4
    I'm not sure where these fall, except that the ths is high.
    Thanks for your reply

     
    Old 10-15-2008, 05:48 PM   #6
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Did you get ranges with your numbers? My FT4 ranges tend to be 0.8-1.8 or 0.61 - 1.76. Do either of these match your lab report? If your range is 0.8-1.8 then you are below range. The total T3 range I had was 80 - 230. You are definitly suboptimal in T3 and Ft4 levels in my opinion.

    Your TSH indicates hypothyroid with out doubt. Your thyroid antibodies normally have a limit around 30. Anything above that limit indicates Hashimoto's. The higher the level the more aggressive or active your Hashimoto's is... make sense?

    MG
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    Old 10-17-2008, 07:57 AM   #7
    Niksi
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Hi. I was diagnosed on Monday with hypothyroidism. I've been taking Levothyroxine for 5 days and I feel much worse than I ever did before. I've been searching for posts where other people are feeling the same way and was pleased to find these, although I'm sorry you feel bad. I feel lethargic, woozy, like the energy has been sucked from all my muscles. Like a bad case of PMT and a bad hangover all rolled into one, although I don't feel sick. I just feel all off kilter and completely incapable of doing anything. It's very frustrating.

    What MG says makes perfect sense to me. I was wondering if the thyroid stimulating hormone switched itself off when it detected the extra T4 coming in. I don't know much about it yet, but it does feel as though all my symptoms increased tenfold when I started taking the medication and so it seemed like that was the only thing which made sense. I guess when the medication eventually gets set to the correct level (after a few months of regular blood tests etc), we should both start to feel a lot better. In the meantime, I really hope getting through the day starts to get easier for both of us. I've been off work for three days as I just can't concentrate on anything.

    My father is also hypo and he said it took two months to feel a big difference. He said it was gradual and he looked back after two months and realised he felt better than before. He certainly looks better these days.

    I hope you feel better soon. Thanks for the advice MG.

    Nik

     
    Old 10-17-2008, 08:12 AM   #8
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Niksi,

    Glad I could help.

    You can also supplement your diet and minerals to get some relief. I know how hard it is to get adequate and timely thyroid care and support through the NHS. You should see if you can get a few essential baseline blood tests for hypoTs. Your GP should be able to run them for you if fatigue and tiredness are in your current symptom set.

    HypoTs tend to suffer from malabsorption issues which aggravate hypoT symptoms: low ferritin, low vit. D, low magnesium, and/or low B12 can cause a wide combination of hypoT symptoms. It is important to know if you need to take extra supplementation to aide in this regard. Another supplement that can affect us is Selenium. You do not want too much, but it is helpful in T4 to t3 conversion and lowering Hashimoto's antibodies to make sure you are taking a multivitamin that has the 100% recommended dosage of Selenium in it. Any more and you could be risking toxicity issues. Also see if your multivitamin has iodine in it. you may be iodine deficient. In some adding iodine makes this worse, in others it helps. It all depends on your personal body chemistry.

    MG
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    Old 10-17-2008, 08:23 AM   #9
    Niksi
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    MG, thanks very much for all the information. Next time I go to see the doctor, probably Monday if I don't feel any better by then, I'll ask her to test for the vitamin/mineral deficiencies. I was also wondering if an imbalance of other hormones might have an effect. My mother has an imbalance of estrogen and takes progesterone to counter it. As T4 is also a hormone (and I'm probably overthinking it) I wondered whether, if I have the same imbalance as my mother (I've never had it checked, but certainly have some of her symptoms), then would that throw me off kilter.

    I'll ask the doctor, but if you know anything, feel free to let me know. You seem very knowledgeable. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my first post.

    Much obliged.

    Nik

     
    Old 10-17-2008, 08:38 AM   #10
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Estrogen is made in the adrenal glands.. as is DHEA, Testosterone, cortisol, aldosterone, progesterone and much more. They are small but an essential piece of the endocrine system. When people have estrogen dominance they increase their natural ability to bind thyroxine (T4). This takes up a lot of T4 and may not allow it to be used appropriately. High estrogen, DHEA, estrogen are signs of PCOS and insulin resistance. Since you have a family history of estrogen dominance you should get your adrenal function tested to make sure you are not following the same path. I just found out I have PCOS/insulin resistance and am reactive hypoglycemic. This seems to be common in hypoTs and can make getting back to your old self more of a challenge if not treated properly.

    You are not over thinking it.. you were spot on. I can get you the exact chemical mechanistic behavior if you like.. but that is likely to send you into a chemical boredome coma. Most preefer to avoid the technical garbledy goop!

    MG
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    Old 10-17-2008, 09:27 AM   #11
    Niksi
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Wow, your knowledge of these things is seriously impressive. I'm so pleased I logged on. Thanks so much for the encouragement. Whilst I've been away from my PC, I've had a conversation with my colleague. He has a private doctor who he's going to get me an appointment with and who will hopefully refer me to a BUPA specialist in this area. I have private healthcare with work, but as you probably know, getting a GP to refer you is hard work.

    There's hope for me yet. I'll speak to the specialist about the vitamin and minerals and about the estrogen dominance. I did see on a website somewhere over the past few days, that feeling worse on these meds could be attibutable to an undiagnosed adrenal issue. Not knowing that estrogen is made in the adrenal glands, I didn't think much more of it. I'm pretty sure that PCOS is polycistic ovarian syndrome. I had a scan for fybroids last year, they would have picked it up if I had cysts I guess, but maybe I should have another scan, or perhaps the cysts aren't a necessary prerequisite for PCOS. I dunno!

    The exact chemical mechanistic behaviour won't be necessary, but thanks for the offer!

    I really hope that everything works out well for you. Thanks for all your help. The members of Healthboards are very lucky to have you.

    Nik

     
    Old 10-17-2008, 11:29 AM   #12
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Your welcome and thank-you for the compliment. We have a solid group of vets and more here that have learned from trial and error and experience. If I count my mom and three aunts and myself and a grandma's and great aunts and great grandmas.. well I have a LOT of experience with thyroid issues. I grew up with the fall out around me. It is not always pretty.

    Adrenal issues can be picked up in your Ft4 and Ft3 ratios. If your actual T4 and T3 levels are not in balance it points to a conversion issue in your liver, a mineral imbalance, or adrenal issues. Depending on whether your Ft4 or Ft3 is higher narrows testing down more. The key with endocrine dyfunction is thorough testing. If you do not have all the pieces in front of you, HOW can you splve the puzzle? You can't. I am a Chemist and Chemical Engineer I get bogged down in the details and testing. However it has gotten me more effective treatment than my mom and her sisters combined. Now I get to work on them. PCOS is polycystic ovary syndrome. You do not have to have cysts on the ovaries. Ovary cyst development is a later manifesting symptom for most. PCOS is also a newer term or label given to insulin resistance. If you have a GTT showing hypoglycemic behavior, and elevated DHEA, and Elevated Estrogen and Testosterone with elevated IGF. There are more blood tales like high triglycerides and high good cholesterol versus bad cholesterol.. but if you get the targeted tests and the trend is there including the LH/FSH ratio 3 or greater.. Well your blood and glands are telling the MDs and techs PCOS is here and ticking. Treat me! I have all the blood symptoms to a T. I am waitng for the nurse to get back to me with the scheduled targeted ovarian US. UGH! Not looking forward to that test. I hope I have a girl tech.

    MG
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    Old 10-17-2008, 11:06 PM   #13
    4mykids2
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    I also want to thank you for the information. I have a few more questions. Can my dr run a test to check the adreanal levela? ANd if you have had a past hystorectomy will that effect the hormones produces by the adreanal gland? I think I have read that dr. don't read the test as low until it is too low? Is that true? I feel like I still have so much to learn. But the good news for the evening, is that I think I am beginning to feel somewhat better. Not quite as much joint and muscle pain.

     
    Old 10-18-2008, 12:28 PM   #14
    eka7
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    I totally understand what you are experiencing. I was diagnosed in July and am still having joint and muscle pain. About three weeks after starting meds I had about 10 days where I felt better, then went right back to all the same symptoms. I'm now on my 2nd dose increase and still sore. I'm a runner and I've totally had to cut back on training...plus, didn't do any races this summer because every time I go for a run about 4 hours later I'm a zombie. I'm also taking a great women's multi-vitamin with extra iron, B-12, magnesium, vit D, selenium, etc...all the things that should help with no luck so far. I'm hoping that once my Endo gets me on the right dosage that the pain will go away with all the other symptoms.

    eka

     
    Old 10-18-2008, 03:59 PM   #15
    mkgb
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    Re: Feel worse with meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4mykids2 View Post
    I also want to thank you for the information. I have a few more questions. Can my dr run a test to check the adreanal levela? ANd if you have had a past hystorectomy will that effect the hormones produces by the adreanal gland? I think I have read that dr. don't read the test as low until it is too low? Is that true? I feel like I still have so much to learn. But the good news for the evening, is that I think I am beginning to feel somewhat better. Not quite as much joint and muscle pain.
    Yes your MD can run adrenal testing. The Estrogen and testosterone will be menopausal in levels unkess you are taking supplements. But your adrenals should be meeting standard Cortisol and aldosterone levels. Your MD shouldn't have an issue running a simple 8 am fasting blood serum cortisol and ACTH test.

    Most MDs do not look at optimal levels. They look to see if you are in statistical normal range. SO until you are negative in range they will just ignore the symptoms and tell you .. YOUR NORMAL. They may even give you an eye roll.

    MG
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