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    Old 11-08-2008, 03:52 AM   #1
    accessn12
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    Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    Hi y'all,

    I'm back. I went wandering for a while but find that I miss all the wonderful people here. This board has got to be the greatest place and besides, I feel secure among thyroiders cause that seems to be my primary problem and the root of all my evils.

    I spent several hours with the diabetes educator last week. She turned out to be a wonderful lady who was full of knowledge and quite happy to talk and answer questions. She took one look at me, asked my family history and told me I'm not a type 2 diabetic. Not a classic type 1 either. I was given the distinction of type 1.5 - a subclass of type 1 diabetes due to decreased insulin production of gradual onset. I get my antibodies tested next week just to make sure it isn't autoimmune but I've got a gut feeling that it's going to turn out to be another effect of the long term thyrotoxicosis and there aren't going to be any antibodies involved. Just a tired, worn out pancreas that spent so many years overpumping to compensate for the hyperglycemia of hyperthyroidism that it no longer can keep up demand. I'm now on insulin 3 times a day and it's going to be a lifetime thing. No turning back the clock now.

    However, on a happier note, I do feel better. I can eat carbs again! First night I dialed up the dose an extra unit and had apple pie. She gave me total control of how, when and what I want to eat. She put me straight on to a sliding scale. I've gained a pound over the last couple days and the horrible fatigue is gone. I was amazed that I could immediately feel a difference. I had thought it would be a gradual thing. And to top it off, those itty bitty needles don't hurt a bit. I actually have some energy again!!! I think I know how I'm going to use it this weekend. Something else is coming back too.

     
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    Old 11-08-2008, 02:53 PM   #2
    keystone206
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    I am so glad to hear you are feeling better! About darn time ! I seem to have a hard time with hypogylcemia if I eat anything at all with sugar in the mornings. I had a Dr tell me once when I complained, "Well, then don't do that then!" So I stick to protien in the mornings and I am okay. Glad to hear you are getting your mojo back Sorry about the needles though...
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    Last edited by keystone206; 11-08-2008 at 02:54 PM.

     
    Old 11-08-2008, 06:07 PM   #3
    accessn12
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    That's quite a sensible doctor. Sounds like you might have reactive hypoglycemia. That has something to do with an insulin dump after an intake of a large amount of carbs. The diabetes educator even explained that to me during our meeting. We went over a lot of stuff. What's even nicer is she's a hypo on armour and is very aware of the effects of thyroid hormones on the body. I really lucked out this time.

    The needles are worth it. I kinda enjoy getting stuck once in a while.

     
    Old 11-09-2008, 09:39 AM   #4
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    I've been hyperthyroid twice so I know how rotten one can feel - your motor is running high speed while the brake is on with fatigue!!! You are too funny .

    I've been feeling like I'm hypoglycemia in the AM while exercising which is strange. My recent lab tests showed a glucose of 108 which is high for me (normal under 100.) I walk & then ride my exercise bike for 1/2hr before eating & taking my b/p meds. Of course I take my Synthroid went I get up & drink 2 glasses of water over the course of an hour.

    Thanks for the insight into Diabetes & hyperthyroidism. Fam

    Last edited by famnd; 11-09-2008 at 09:40 AM.

     
    Old 11-09-2008, 11:56 AM   #5
    accessn12
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    Yeah, kinda like being a zombie plugged into an electric outlet.

    I guess all told, I spent a total of 8yrs big time hyper during 3 major episodes and the rest of the time running just a little hyper with some brief bumps. I sometimes get kind of annoyed at the doctors who pretty much just stood around with their you know what up their you know what. The diabetes educator was appalled when she saw some of my old labs. I've had evidence of sugar problems for the last 17 years for sure and nobody ever said a word about it.

    You're going to have to keep an eye on that sugar. Did they repeat it to make sure it wasn't just a one time thing? I ran across something that says regardless of being treated, some studies show that someone who's been hyper has a higher risk of diabetes. It looks like it has something to do with the way the thyroid hormones interact with the beta cells of the pancreas.

    If your sugar's creeping up, there's a chance that you will feel symptoms of hypoglycemia at a higher number. Also, water washes sugar out of the body. You've already gone overnight without food so there's nothing to really burn except the glucose that's stored in your liver which is a limited amount. Toss in a synthroid and you're also boosting your metabolism a hair. I bet if you ate something like 2 crackers with a little peanut butter or anything with just a little carb plus protein before exercising, that would stop.

    I think keystone's doc had a very valid point. You can expand on that to say that if something doesn't work one way, try it a different way.

    Last edited by accessn12; 11-09-2008 at 12:25 PM.

     
    Old 11-10-2008, 06:35 AM   #6
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    My Graves GA (Great Aunt) made it to 93 with diabetes as well. Her Graves kicked in with menopause(51), but she was always a stick. They never tested Fts only TSH and used that to regulate ATDs. They kept her TSH around 0.4.

    I wonder if she had issues earlier and they only bothered to note it after/during menopause. Her diabetes hit her at 60. And she had to go right to a shot regime. Until her shakes and RA got too bad to self administer her insulin. 1.5 years back. She lived in her own house with her own garden and loved to be active in her local church. It is a curious occurance that thyroid sufferers seem to trend into diabetes.

    I am Hashimoto's for the most part, but I have Graves as well. I have had a hard issue keeping my T4 to T3 conversion in check. I have tested high since my pregnancy in T3 levels.. that is 6 years! I recently was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia trending toward hypoglycemia. My MD is not sure if I will be able to stave off full blown diabetes, but we are using a glucophage to try and treat the broken cellular insulin transport path and are treating my other issues as aggressively as possible in an attempt to get my excess weight off and get things under control.

    My nutritionist and MD have told me I had to embrace my inner carnivore and eat more protien and meat than easy to digest carbs. My wheat allergy plays havock with this.. but i am managing. Halloween candy and sugar cravings are the worse. i wish I could use artificial sweetners with out gagging on the taste. THEY ALL TASTE HORRIBLE to me. I am one of the rare super tasters that can taste the difference. One of the fun facts licked up by serving as the guinea pig for a friend who was a food science major. That was fun. I also have a heightened sense of smell. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING WHEN YOU HAVE A BABY. Diapers! AAAGGGGHHHH! GAG!

    Okay back to diabetes and hypeT issues, Helen, if you could write up a nice post on what you have learned and stick it in my latest thyroid care and concerns thread that would be GRRREAT! I am working on one dealing with hypoglycemia and PCOS and insuilin resistance.. it is turnign out to be a LONG publication. Probably going to break it into three parts... but it would be nice to have the hyperT spin on things. I do think that in many cases the diabetes is either due to an AI frenzy or a system burn out. I am glad that the needles do not bother you AND that you are gaining weight! YEAH! *Does a little dance of JOY* You needed a break. It just goes to show if we look hard enough we eventually get where we need to go.

    My blood sugar never showed to be much above 90. It was always NORMAL during the fasting tests. It took a GTT (glucose tolerance test) over a 3 hour period to catch my hypoglycemia issues. I was a textbook reactive insulin spike and blood sugar dump, every 2-3 hours after eating or drinking too much sugar content food. Treatment?
    1) Glucophage - Metformin extended release. You start taking 500 mg every day with supper and increase the dose by 500 mg every 2-3 weeks not to exceed 2000 mg. I am now on 1000 mgs and holding. Eventually this may progress to full blown diabetes and i will need to add insulin to my regime. We are h9oping to fight this.. but given my GA and her daughter and my dad's mom and cousins.. I would not rule out daily needle play in my future. Allergy shots have me prepared!

    2) Diet wise? First step, I had to cut out processed sugars and easily digested sugars.

    3) What are those bad easy to process sugars? This means potatos.. YEAH (french fries, mashers, baked, hashed, bread.. the hole kit and kaboodle, they can be converted to sugar real easily), non-whole grain breads breads, pasta, CORN!(think corn syrup.. nuff said), sodas and JUICE(too much is a bad thing.. I was told to cut the OJ for sure.. been off of it for acid reflux so that didn't hurt), candy, granulated sugar out of the bowl, sugar cane(sorry I am having a sugar craving), beets, sweet potatos, sugary cereals..

    4) SO what can you eat? Whole wheat pasta and breads in moderation, veggies, fruit in moderation, and protien.. lots of protien. I had to go to veggies with out a lot of sugar and use fruit as sugar sources and amp the protien. The whole embrace my inner carnivore line. Each meal I have to consume 1.5-2 x the amount of protien required. I use PB, and sunflower seeds for this purpose. I also keep lunch meat handy so I can eat a few slices here and there. There are many good diet sites out there for diabetic people. Hypoglycemia falls into that catergory.

    5) How do you go about eating? Rule of thumb eat small meals and snacks through out the day. Instead of three make it six.

    6) Also I learned from my nutritionist that we are made to eat the most in the morning and should eat lighter as the day progresses. SO the best way to lose weight is to eat big before 2 pm and light after it with nothing after 6-8 pm depending on your bed time regime. I had to go into this grazing mode. I eat ALL day long.. but ity bity portions. Every 2 hours I am feeding my face. My meals are smeared out over a 2-4 hour period. It really sucks with keeping to family meal times. i just have to eat a small meal with the family and wait til the others finish.

    7) Odd fact of my biochemistry: BUT if I go out to eat/eat too much in one sitting, guess what? What you think happens? I get the oddest symptom set: chills, shakes, head ache, nausea, fatigue, and much more. It is like I suddenly lose a ***** of my thyroid hormones all at once. Anyone else experience this type of reaction with over eating?

    Once you embrace a hypoglycemic diet and regime.. deviation is easily noted. At least my body tells me I have been bad proportion wise. I am curious as to the inducement of the many hypoT mimicry symptoms when I over eat now. I have yet to find a straight answer for it. I am told just don't eat that much. I love when the MDs confirm the obvious. BUT sometimes we need it.

    I hope that the insulin is the last piece you need to your puzzle alongside that T3 supplement regime. Keep us posted. I had missed your insight! Thanks for coming back home and sharing your valuable insight!

    MG
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    Old 11-10-2008, 07:33 AM   #7
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    Sorry to hear about the diabetes, Helen, but am glad you're feeling so much better because of the insulin.

    What an upbeat attitude you have about these kinds of things... You ol' optimist, you.
    Best wishes.

     
    Old 11-10-2008, 08:53 AM   #8
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    Well shuckers midwest, it's pretty darned easy to be upbeat when things are finally looking up. Them shots have really made a big difference. And besides, aside from that blood thingy, I've got a proper diagnosis and receiving proper treatment for everything now and it all has an explanation.

    Hey mg, when are you going to write your book?

    I'm a super taster too. Don't you dare put an artificial sweetener near me. I was given the go-ahead to continue my real ginger ale. Nice advantage of being a skinny diabetic. BTW, 1.8lbs!

    There's not a whole bunch to add on the hyper angle other than it's rare but it can happen, especially in long term hyper. It's something that needs to be watched for in anyone who's been hyper. I haven't seen any studies that show a correlation between the hypers that present with hyperglycemia from the get-go and the one's who don't continuing on to full blown diabetes. It would be interesting to find out. I originally presented to the ER with hyperglycemia and ketones back in 1991 and from then on, the hyperglycemia continued to follow the thyroid hormones. The first thing the ER doc asked when the labs came back was if I was diabetic. There is a strong correlation between thyrotoxicosis and hyperglycemia. Just like there is between taking cortisone and hyperglycemia. Both can induce a rise in blood sugar, although by slightly different means. Cortisone has a direct effect and thyroid hormones signal the catecholamines which in turn raise bs. They also have a direct effect on the beta cells of the pancreas, especially T3.

    <<Anyone else experience this type of reaction with over eating?>>
    Um, you say you have reactive hypoglycemia. Wouldn't that explain it???

    I was having a lot of symptoms when the sugar would spike and then crash. Like sometimes over a hundred points in an hour. Didn't even have to go into normal levels. It was the sudden drop that caused the symptoms. Certain foods seemed really good at doing that. What I like most about the insulin is that's not happening anymore. I still haven't reached ideal levels yet but there's no spikes and crashes. The sugar level's staying much more consistent and that feels good. I'm still kinda concerned about what's going to happen the next time I get sick. That's going to be a little tricky to handle but the DE gave me her card, cell phone and every way to possibly reach her and said she'd be available 24/7 if the sugar should go over 250 or below 80. Talk about service! It sure would be nice if they'd handle thyroids that way.

    Which brings up another thing. I now have diabetes. I'm now receiving royal service. Fast appointments, incredible insurance benefits, treatment and testing for everything without question, the works. Why do diabetics receive better treatment than thyroiders? I wouldn't even have diabetes if it wasn't for the thyroid.

     
    Old 11-10-2008, 05:49 PM   #9
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    Good to hear you're feeling better Helen and they finally figured it all out and what to do for it. The endos around my way are all booked because of diabetics.That's a good question about why the thyroid people are treated half the time like they're crazy! Like Rodney Dangerfield used to say "We can't get no respect!" What is it about our disease that makes it that way?

    p.s.hey Mg! My Graves kicked in at menopause and I'm a stick...hope I make it to 93... without the diabetes!

    Last edited by GravesGirl73; 11-10-2008 at 05:51 PM.

     
    Old 11-12-2008, 08:07 AM   #10
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    Re: Hyperthyroid/Diabetes

    I'll be darned if I'm going to let an endo touch this diabetes with a ten foot pole. I much prefer this diabetes educator/family physician route. This way I've got someone who knows me well working with someone who knows diabetes well. It seems the perfect solution. It is a federally subsidized clinic though and I don't think most family physicians have the ability to call a highly trained DE into their office to meet with individual patients.

    It would be nice to know why there's such a difference. Perhaps it's mostly a matter of who has the louder voice. Diabetes is constantly in the news, the advertisements are constantly in your face and you've also got a lot more people who suffer from it. It also falls into the category of "big bucks". Except for when the Bush's had their brief, newsworthy stint of it, have you ever heard mention of it in the media? How many people that you run into even know what a thyroid is? I still can't believe that the first question out of my mouth when the first doc asked me how long I had had a goiter was "what's a goiter?". But you're right, it sure as heck doesn't provide us any respect.

    I got a call from a nurse at the clinic this morn. She asked how I was doing. Hell, I couldn't even get them to return a phone call even if I was bouncing off bulkheads before. It's sad. I did take advantage though and got my lab appt lined up and all my prescriptions renewed. I was going to have to call for that today anyhow.

     
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