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    Old 02-27-2012, 08:55 PM   #1
    mmandar
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    Question Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Hi everyone, I haven't been on here in a while, but have been cared for by an ok endo and have reached eurothyroid - according to her (see 2nd column below to my numbers before seeing her in 2011). I continue to be on 2.5mg of Tapazole for the next 2 months, and then she wants me to stop it altogether.

    I'm really hoping someone can give me some help here...

    Since I still feel crappy and continue to have depression, migraines, weight gain, and all the other good stuff - I've been researching supplementation, and have come across 2 hormones that people have used to boost their health. Both seem to improve mood, weight, and general well-being.

    I've read about bio-identical progesterone, and T3 (as a supplement). They appear on this board as well.

    My numbers as of 1 month ago are:

    TSH - 1.36 (norm .3-3) - up from .07 in Sept 2011
    Free T3 - 5.0 (norm 3-7) - down from 5.18 in Sept 2011
    Free T4 - 12.5 (norm 10-24) - down from 13.3 in Sept 2011

    After 15+ years of being overweight, depressed and headachy, and still feeling this way - I want to start getting my life in order.

    1) How do I breach the topic of bio-identical progesterone, at 35 yrs of age, with an endo that is not-too-friendly with self-medicating (I know it's over the counter, but I want her in on it)?
    2) Do I just buy it myself and start at a low dosage?
    3) Who has taken it once euthyroid and saw improvement in overall health?
    4) How does it differ in overall health-improvement to T3 supplementation?

    **As an additional point, I currently take Vit D, Lemon Balm, and Magnesium Citrate.

    Last edited by mmandar; 03-02-2012 at 11:30 PM.

     
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    Old 02-28-2012, 01:14 AM   #2
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Your FreeT4 is low compared to the range so that's probably too low for you. I've never seen such a range for FT3 - are you sure that's correct? If it is your FT3 is probably too low for you too - I wonder if you truly need Tapazole anymore

    Last edited by FinnMaid; 02-28-2012 at 01:54 AM.

     
    Old 02-29-2012, 12:28 AM   #3
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    welcome to the board although I'm sorry for the reason you're here.

    uhm what was the reason your doctor started tapazole? Were you having hypersymptoms? Were you ever tested for antibodies and diagnosed Graves? Did you feel better starting it?
    I'm concerned your doctor could have been confused by TSH. Although your TSH was low the free levels at the time did not indicate hyper at all.

    Other then that, can only agree with Finnmaid, your levels are probably too low for you and causing symptoms.

     
    Old 02-29-2012, 10:39 AM   #4
    mmandar
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Thanks Finnmaid and Lisa - I did experience 6 months of hyper symptoms by the time I went on the Tapazole - in Dec of 2010 (I had lost 25 pnds in that time, had insomnia, shakes and panic attacks regularly). This makes it about 1 year and a bit that I'm on it.

    The doc did give me the option of stopping it at this point, but I thought that since my body reacts so badly to any changes in the meds, maybe I should be on it a little longer (till May when I see her again).

    Actually, the best I felt was just before I started having hyper symptoms - so that would be around 1ish on the TSH scale, I guess - I didnt have the Free numbers, so....

    The feeling crappy has been a constant - no matter what my levels have been, unfortunately. The symptoms were the worst when I was on the bata blocker as well as the Tapazole, and when I first started Tapazole.

    Currently I am having some hyper symptoms, so I don't know what to think. My hands are shaking quite a bit, eyes twitch once in a while, sweating more, major insomnia... As for hypo symptoms, I do feel cold quite a bit and my skin is dryer then normal. I don't have the pounding chest like in hyper. But, I am having major stomach upset for weeks now, and my period is accompanied by major cramps this month - that's a hypo thing, no?

    Should I quit, or do a 1/2 pill of the 2.5mg? My concern is that the 2.5mg is already a "cut" pill, and when I do that one in half it will basically be crumbled...

    When would I take it during the day - because I can't divide that 1/4 into 2 - like I currently do the 2.5mg. Is there a better time to take the lower dose, if I go that way?

    Thank you everyone - and for your kindness.

    p.s. - I was tested for Anti TPO, which were around 346, and not for the Graves ones - they said it was not necessary because it didn't matter -they'd treat it the same way. I have a thread on here if you go my username that lists my entire numbers and history.

    Last edited by mmandar; 02-29-2012 at 10:42 AM.

     
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    Old 02-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #5
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    REPRINTING MY NUMBERS HISTORY FROM LAST YEAR:

    January, 2010

    TSH 1.25 (taking 75mg of Levo per day) - tired, weak, muscle weakness and aches, stomach upset, sleeping all day, depression better then when my TSH was higher, but still pretty bad.

    First week of January, 2011

    *went in after 5-6 months of insomnia, and a couple of months of palps, sweating, anxiety, moodiness and high level of stress - with inability to cope.

    TSH <.015
    Free T3 - 11.11
    Free T4 - 24.2 (levo reduced to 25mg per day by GP)

    Feb 15, 2011

    TSH < .015
    Free T3 - 10.62
    Free T4 - 23.0
    AntiTPO - 349

    *Told to stop the Levo because I'm hyper now, and it didn't go down enough.

    Mar 7ish, 2011

    *ULTRASOUND results - multi-nodular goiter was found - not a solid mass, cancer unlikely but will need a biopsy to be sure

    *Prescribed - Methimazole - 5mg/day, and Atenolol 25mg/day

    Mar 23rd, 2011

    *Have been having side-effects from day one, including: numbness in limbs, spine, face; spine pain; joint pain; choking feeling; shooting head pains; increase in frequency and intesity of migraines - all of this at night only. started to split Methimazole dose into 2 doses of 2.5mg/day

    April 9, 2011

    TSH <.015
    Free T3 6.27 (3-7 norm)
    Free T4 15.4 (10-24 norm)

    April 20, 2011

    *Reduced my Methimazole dose to 2.5mg/day on my own when I saw that my numbers were seemingly hypo again, plus my fatty tongue returned (which I assumed was a hypo symptom).

    April 30ish

    *Started to have major numbness and back pain and the swelling really started to be regular. Started to have panic attacks regularly this month.

    May 4, 2011

    TSH <0.015

    FREE T3 8.78 (3-7 norm)

    FREE T4 19.7 (10-24 norm)

     
    Old 03-01-2012, 04:23 PM   #6
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    I welcome any more comments....

     
    Old 03-02-2012, 01:05 AM   #7
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    thanks for your clarification on the labs! I hope I did not confuse you with my question.

    At this point, I don't think you still need Tapazole.

    I'm so sorry that you've been feeling crappy all along.

    The current hypersymptoms, I would not worry too much about that. hypo and hypersymptoms can overlap and in reality things aren't always that distinct as far as symptoms go.

    hugs

     
    Old 03-02-2012, 11:36 PM   #8
    mmandar
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    I realize that symptoms can be all over the place no matter what your numbers are, but can anyone tell me whether it would be worth it to try to go down to a 1/4 of 5mg pill of Tapazole, from the 1/2 (or 2.5mg) per day?... since my body seems so sensitive to hormone changes?

    Is it okay that the pill is basically crumbling at that point - because the pieces are so small and hand-cut? Or, do most people just go down to nothing, or maybe a 2.5mg pill every other day?

    What do most people do at the end of their Tapazole doses? - what is the most common way to get off of it slowly according to your endos?


    And one last thing - what is the chance that my body will once again go back to hyper once I'm off of it - do most people stay euthyroid after getting off of Tapazole?

    Thanks again you guys....

    Last edited by mmandar; 03-02-2012 at 11:39 PM.

     
    Old 03-03-2012, 05:30 AM   #9
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    I took 1.25 methimazole (generic Tapazole) before I went off meds. A pill cutter that has a razor blade can effectively divide a 5mg tab. If you wind up with some crumbs, just throw them out - you certainly have enough meds.

    Thyroid-savvy doctors usually have the patient take 1.25mg daily for 4 wks. and then have them get labs.

    Then, the dose is reduced to 1.25mg every other day with labs in another 4 wks.

    Finally, if thyroid hormone levels are still in the normal range, the dose is reduced to 1.25mg every third day with labs in 4 wks.

    If TSH is .3 or higher after that, remission is confirmed and the patient is taken off meds.

    There's no way of knowing if you are in remission now because your thyroid hormone levels are on the hypo side.

    The patient has to have at least the FreeT4 level in the upper third of the range with TSH .3 or higher to be considered in remission.

    It's entirely possible that you will eventually revert back to hypothyroidism again....yes, you could go hyper again, too, if exposed to environmental triggers. Unfortunately, this is life with thyroid disease. We do the best we can with whatever is going on with our labs at the time.

    Obviously, getting regular labs is vital for all thyroid patients.

    Hope you feel better soon.
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    Last edited by sammy64; 03-03-2012 at 05:56 AM.

     
    Old 03-09-2012, 09:18 AM   #10
    mmandar
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Thanks Sammy - great to hear from you again!

    You must have a great endo. Mine is better then the first one, but she said that it's sufficient to just stop the 2.5mg and test me again in 3months! ;O

    So, I called her yesterday and asked/told her that I will try the 1.25mg - and to call me if she doesn't agree - I haven't heard anything yet...

     
    Old 03-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #11
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    My endo just called me back and said that taking 1.25mg is not worth it - it's like taking nothing, and I need to just stop the 2.5mg altogether ("because at some point we need to stop your Tapazole").

    She said if I need to, I can always go back on the 2.5mg.

     
    Old 03-18-2012, 08:29 PM   #12
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Thank you everyone for your continued support.

    So, this thread got off track because I guess you're not supposed to be feeling crappy after being euthyroid - but I'd like to know if that is really true... I mean I have read in more than one book that symptoms will linger, and sometimes for years to come.

    Are progesterone and/or T3 good supplements to try if that is the case? Anyone take these once they've been euthyroid?

    I also welcome any more comments on whether just skipping from 2.5mg Tapazole to zero would do me harm....

    I have begun to take 1.25mg/day against my endo's wishes. It's been two weeks and I'm not having too many weird things happening - only an off day or two so far.

    I don't see her until the first week of May - how do you think I should space the dosages so that I'm off of it by then?

    Last edited by mmandar; 03-18-2012 at 09:19 PM.

     
    Old 03-19-2012, 04:37 AM   #13
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Being euthyroid just means having levels in the normal range - it does not mean those levels are YOUR normal.

    Your most recent labs are on the hypo side so, it's no wonder you're still having symptoms.

    I have no thyroid symptoms when my levels are optimal.

    The proper way to wean off Tapazole/methimazole is to go from 1.25mg every day to 1.25mg every other day to 1.25mg every third day. It's important to get labs before any dose adjustment.

    As I mentioned already, there's no way of knowing if you are in remission because you've been overmedicated.

    If your TSH stays at least at the bottom end of the range after each dose reduction, then remission could be imminent.

    I would not even consider any type of hormonal supplement unless I had labs and a doctor to support the decision.
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    Old 03-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #14
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Thank you for your suggestion. You've helped me so much in the past, and I continue to appreciate your words. It would be wise for me to leave the supplements alone until I work out where my thyroid is.

    I am wondering how your health battle is going? Did you need a dose adjustment after your Sep, 2011 tests? You were pretty stable at that point, right?

    I missed filling you in on the numbers I had between SEP, 2011 and FEB, 2012. On NOV 18, 2011 I had the following results:

    TSH 3.28 (norm .3 to 3.0) (.07 in SEP, and 1.36 in FEB)
    FREE T3 4.28 (norm 3-7) (5.18 in SEP, and 5.0 in FEB)
    FREE T4 10.4 (norm 10-24) (13.3 in SEP, and 12.5 in FEB)

    The "drop" in TSH in Feb is due to my going down to 2.5mg from 5mg per day. Upon seeing the Feb numbers (when compared to the Nov numbers) she said nothing had changed in my numbers (they seem different to me). She said they were identical.... And, that is why she said that I can now stop the 2.5mg no problem and she'll check my numbers again the first week of May.

    As you can see, my TSH has started to go back up after being stuck on hyper for like a year. It went as "high" as 3.28 in NOV of 2011. I thought that the TSH can be relied on once it bounces back from the hyper numbers, and therefore the current 1.36 should be good, no? I can see that my T4 is hypo-ish, but is the TSH still useless to me at this point?

    Since the endo does not approve of my taking the lower dosage, I don't want to tell her that once again I've done my own medicating and am still on it. She's previously told me that she doesn't want me "screwing around" on my own. As far as she knows I've quit the 2.5mg.

    ...Wont she be wanting to drop me as a patient if I tell her what I'm doing - because I'm not cooperating with her? I'm not sure my family doc will be willing to try a 3rd endo referral.

    If you were me, would you decrease at this point to once every other day, or just keep taking the 1.25mg per day until I see bloodwork. I just don't want to continue over-medicating myself you know....

     
    Old 04-04-2012, 11:42 PM   #15
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    Re: Progesterone or T3 for mood and health once euthyroid?

    Another UPDATE:

    Monday, April 2nd, I had my bloodwork done and I have these results:

    TSH 0.26 (norm 0.3-3)
    Free T4 15.0 (norm 10-24)


    So, my TSH is going hyper-ish as I stop the Tapazole (was 1.36 in Feb) - off of it for 2 weeks now (and every other day for weeks before that - and my Free T4 is looking hypo-ish, but up from the 12.5 in Feb, so it's at least going up.

    I see my Endo beginning of May.

    Anyone have comments on the trend since Sep 2011 (as shown in my posts above)?

     
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