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fresnogirl 10-12-2012 10:02 PM

lab results, but still have symptoms :(
latest labs:

TSH 1.64 (0.30-3)
FREE T3 3.24 (2.5-3.9)
FREE T4 1.00 (0.58-1.64)
VITAMIN D 23.6 (20-49.9)
TSI 89 (<140%)
TPO AS OF 9/6/2012 WAS 933 HIGH (<60)

I've had a hyper episode last week of september that resolved. just wanted to see what you all thyroid savvy patients think if i should be treated with natural or synthetic low dose hormone in the meantime that im dealing with hashimotos.. or what my endo presumes i have? i thought this whole time it would "go away on its own" but my thyroid is slowly being destroyed. my symptoms arent severe but they do include muscle aches in am, sometimes throughout the day, exhausted, itchy feet/legs at night only, sweating at night only, but not profusely, unable to get a good nights rest, fatigued, feeling like im not myself, ive had panic attacks, anxiety, shortness of breath, and heart palpitations, nervousness that eventually resolved. my normal bp is usually high 90-low 100's/60's and my HR is usually 70-90 bpm. my endo tested me for adrenal disorder but it came back normal. i cant explain why im still symptomatic even if my labs are within normal range. ive read online that people still get treated for their symptoms despite labs. :(

Gabriella777 10-13-2012 04:49 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Hello Fresno,
I am a newbie to this site as well. When I read your comments you sound so much like me. Just wanted to share with you, I was diagnosed quite some time ago with Hashimoto's....I too thought "it will go away on it's own" ...or I listened to uninformed doctors who told me to "just watch it". There were times when I tried to treat it with nutrition and vitamins. I lived with all the same symptoms you describe, sadly I learned the fine art of suffering. I suffer I did. What I regret is not taking it seriously and not educating myself as to what could happen if I just magically thought it would go away. It did not go away and the symptoms did get worse. This disease now has my full attention and want to learn what are the options for feeling better. It would be nice in life if we could learn from another's suffering....I am an example for what you state your symptoms "are not so severe"....but those symptoms sure can make life uncomfortable. I know, I lived it. I no longer think this thyroid disorder will "go away". Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it validated my experience. I wish you wisdom concerning this disease and a quality of life that improves with the new found knowledge regarding the thyroid!

lisa789 10-13-2012 08:51 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
I think your labs explain why you're not feeling well yet. (for convenience I'll copy them - I'm a bit foggy myself today).

first: you want to supplement vit D ince its quite low (quite common in auto-immune disease).

Second and more important thyroid: normal aka within ranges does not mean all that much when it concerns thyroid. Each person has it's setpoints, optimal levels, which is where one is free from symptoms caused by thyroid. For most that means having the free levels (FT4 and FT3) at least midrange or higher. most likely your FT4 is still too low for your body's needs.

TSH 1.64 (0.30-3)
FREE T3 3.24 (2.5-3.9)
FREE T4 1.00 (0.58-1.64)
VITAMIN D 23.6 (20-49.9)

are you on any thyroid medication?

as for the TSI antibodies, you might want to keep an eye on those. even more so since you memtion a hyper episode last week. yes you do have hashimoto, yet those TSI antibodies are part of Graves. they are still quite low so it's possible they are not playing yet, at the same time they are present so it's possible you're developping hashitoxicosis.

hang in there

fresnogirl 10-13-2012 11:32 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
thank you for your replies. how much vitamin d should i take a day? and my endo didnt prescribe any medication because my labs were in normal range. im frustrated because my symptoms are still here. :( i heard some endos prescribe meds for hashimotos and some dont. ive only gone to one, im still searching for one willing to treat me.

fresnogirl 10-13-2012 11:35 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
gabriella777, are you on any thyroid medication and were u diagnosed with hashimotos?

Gabriella777 10-13-2012 04:49 PM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Yes, I was diagnosed with hashimoto's. Interestingly, I tested a couple of times over the years. Yes, the numbers did get better after a few years on Armour Thyroid. Then I made the mistake of going to another uninformed Dr. who told me to stop the medication, that my lab tests were "normal". I would heed the advice of people here and learn from me if you can. Just because lab tests say one thing, "normal", you may feel a bunch of symptoms that simply do not match "normal". The body is looking for homeostasis and when we are out of balance we have symptoms. Since our bodies do not verbalize what is wrong, it lets us know something is amiss by the physical symptoms we experience.
I learned that not all Dr.'s understand hashimoto's nor what havoc it can have on your life. I would bring my thyroid books into the Dr.'s office and they looked at me like I had 2 heads. I found some Dr.'s do not like to be questioned.
Yes, now I am on Armour Thyroid, 60 mg two times per day. Just started this past week and already I see a difference in a few symptoms. I was amazed when I saw my fingernails start to grow and they became stronger. I am less depressed. Looks like I needed the T4 after all according to Total T4 lab test. (I am going for the free T3 and free T4 this coming week)
I had been taking Cytomel which is just T3, because I was low in lab results 6 months ago. From what I have learned on this site I want to take a look at why my Dr. is suggesting the cytomel and armour at the same time. What I did notice is that my hair falling out, unable to lose weight at all, feeling very depressed and weak fingernails came about when taking Cytomel 25mg twice per day for the past 6 months. (This may not happen to everyone, but I am seeing everyone reacts differently to different medications) I cut back taking Cytomel when I started the Armour. I have researched Cytomel and different people have different experiences with it.
I am still learning and making every effort to understand why i was getting such extreme symptoms the past couple of months.
It seems the more we learn, the better we are equipped to search out a good doctor who will really help us get to a stable place.
When I saw your first posting, I just had to let you know you are not alone. I have had almost all of the same symptoms as you described. I reached out to you because I would encourage you to take a proactive approach. Confidence comes with educating yourself. If I had spent more time studying, I would have not listened to a Dr. tell me to 'just watch it" or it's no big deal. Now I will make every effort to learn from others and study, after all it is my day to day wellness I am learning about! Hey Fresno, anytime you need support, just let me know. I am still asking many questions myself concerning this disease, but I sure do have empathy and compassion for what you are going through.

fresnogirl 10-13-2012 09:09 PM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(

you have been an inspiration in the last two days for me. my first endo will not prescribe meds to treat my symptoms so ive gone another route to get a second opinion from another endocrinologist. i know every person is different but did u try any other med other than Armour? I want to be able to find the right hormone replacement for me and ive read mixed reviews regarding Armour and Synthroid or Levothyroxine. Have your symptoms alleviated? My symptom that bothers me the most is the extreme fatigue and body aches. im 26 years old and an RN and i just dont have energy to do anything. ive been off work for almost four weeks now. I just need more guidance on how to deal with this disease. ive researched EVERYTHING online about it and also read A TON of forum posts from people suffering from this disease. i can tell its taken a toll on my mom whos been here for two weeks helping me get through the day as i cry in pain at times and sulk at being so fatigued. i used to be so healthy three weeks ago. :(

midwest1 10-13-2012 11:44 PM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Hashimoto's doesn't take one from total health to severe, debilitating illness in just 3 weeks.
And thyroid hormone doesn't relieve symptoms the way aspirin relieves headache. It replaces the deficit of the body's natural thyroid hormones so that healing will occur and the body will function the way it was meant to. I believe your endo is correct in not rushing to treat based only on symptoms without more supporting evidence from labwork. That's not to say your thyroid isn't sick, just that the onset of your symptoms doesn't jibe with that.

If you were truly healthy 3 weeks ago, you should investigate other causes for your illness. Lyme disease, for example, has many of the same symptoms as hypothyroidism, and their onset would happen in a much faster time frame. Do you frequent the outdoors where you'd have been exposed to deer ticks?

Wishing you wellness.

fresnogirl 10-13-2012 11:50 PM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
i live in fresno ca and my endo said that a chance of lyme disease wouldnt occur here but i could be wrong. what are the tests for lyme disease? since i was diagnosed hashimotos, i thought my fatigue and weakness stemmed from that. im able to shower and walk around my
house after taking motrin q6 so its not debilitating for me. im just sad that i went from working a 12 hour shift to being stuck at home for three weeks. with lymes, do u get a fever? i never had one.

Gabriella777 10-14-2012 08:06 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Gosh you sure do remind me of myself. The good news about you is today we live in a world of the internet, where you can research and learn. I have not tried other thyroid meds, just the Armour and the Cytomel. Yes, these did alleviate symptoms. It makes sense to me you would like to find the best med for you. It seems to me, given posts on this site, that finding the one med for you is an individual quest. I too asked that same question. It seems thyroid meds affect different people in individual ways. The best I could do was take a chance and take a med that would help to alleviate some symptoms. When I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's I lived with fatigue, depression, weight gain for a very long time. I guess you could say I was in denial, like what you said in an earlier post, I thought it would "go away". I am older than you, so learn from me. Keep asking questions, make the best decisions you can. There is wisdom here. There is wisdom in books. Even though you do not feel well and are confused about what path to take, let me remind you what you have that is good: You are young, you have a mother to help you out and you are inquisitive enough to research the best way to help yourself. Trust the answers will come.

lisa789 10-14-2012 09:37 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Uhm a very interesting point you make there Midwest.
[I]Hashimoto's doesn't take one from total health to severe, debilitating illness in just 3 weeks. [/I]
Please know I'm not arguing whatsoever but truly wondering and I guess that it might be different for each person. Let me clarify though, before I got sick was I truly healthy, no I was not and I was not for years before that really. Year after year symptoms did increase but if anybody would have asked me whether I was healthy I would have gave an affirmative answer. Worked 12 hours a day, I slept more then normal but truthfully I figured it was part of me kinda thing. In the end I did feel like I was fighting something so something was sneaking up on me but I figured some stupid cold or whatever.
Long story short, for me yes I do have an exact date when Hashimoto/Graves/hashitoxicosis hit me that I literally fell down.
in my case yes I did go from an healthy woman (although I objectively was not, but I figured I was, hindsight would not say I was, now I do realize how the hypoT sneaked up on me but at the time nah I did not realize and I did function, did what I had, wanted and needed to do) to debalitating and pretty much bedridden in no more then 3 weeks.

I cannot help but to wonder whether the combi of antibodies played part there (since looking back i sure was hypo before that but it did not knock me out/down so to speak).

Of course no arguing that everything should be checked such a Lyme and everythign else a doctor can think of.

I repeat myself when I say I have no intention to argue whatsoever (really want to make this clear since you're so knowledgeable), I just want to throw in my 2 cents, my experience since for whatever reason (no idea what that reason would be and I'm intrigued why it would be for one and not for another), it can happen, but it's not the most common scenario. I do wanted to share this since it might be some kind of comfort.


Gabriella777 10-14-2012 10:14 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Yes, Lisa789, I too thought it was just me. I worked long hours as well, all those years living with symptoms I did not realize I should be living without. Yes I would have described myself as "healthy" even though I had symptoms of hypothyroidism. Just wanted to thank you for describing me and helping me realize others have had similar experiences. As each person shares it seems the pieces of the puzzle start to come together. Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time out of their day to share. it means a lot to someone who has a thyroid problem that has many questions and many answers.

midwest1 10-14-2012 11:29 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Fresno - The West Coast, particularly Northern California, is a hotspot for Lyme disease, so your endo is mistaken about that. I easily found that info on the Nat'l Institutes of Health webpage about the disease.
~ [COLOR="Purple"][/COLOR] ~
I'm certainly no expert on any aspect of the disease and am not stating with any certainty at all that it's what you have. All I meant to do was try to present alternatives to the assumption that you're dealing with thyroid disease specificially.

Lisa, thank you so very much for setting the record straight and letting me know more about your personal thyroid history. Of course, I [i]should[/i] have included in my statement the all-important word "usually"...
[i]"Hashimoto's doesn't [COLOR="red"][B]usually[/B][/COLOR] take one from total health to severe, debilitating illness in just 3 weeks."[/i]

Your story is proof that we are all individuals with unique variations and subtleties of the broader condition known as thyroid disease.

Please know I had no intention of dismissing your or fresno's personal experiences, and I apologize for seeming to have done that. All I wanted to do is point out that it's important to keep an open mind to [u]all[/u] possibilities and not to assume every condition has a thyroid explanation.

For example... A few years ago, a young woman was posting almost every single day for several weeks how bad she was feeling because of hypothyroidism, even with what should have been good hormone levels. Finally, she mentioned that her kids were home from school that day with the same kind of symptoms she was having. It was winter, and it suddenly hit me that she was describing carbon monoxide poisoning. It turned out that the gas-fired appliance she was using to heat the house was malfunctioning and was indeed the source of CO poisoning that was sickening her and eventually, her family. If she had continued to assume her thyroid was the basis of her illness, it could have had dire consequences for her and her loved ones. Her experience is the kind that bolsters my contention that not every thyroid-like symptom is [i]always[/i] caused by thyroid and how it's important to keep an open mind about everything.

lisa789 10-14-2012 11:55 AM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
(hugs) :-) We're on the same page Midwest, I completely agree that one needs to keep an open mind to any other causes and have it checked out.
it's not because it can be thyroid related that it is, and better check things out then assuming it's thyroid.

Please do not apologize I did not feel dismissed whatsoever. I just wanted to throw it in, since 1) it always did fascinate me (well kinda), still don't know the answer to the why just know that apparently it's possible. 2) in case everything else is ruled out and a person is having a thyroid disorder to realize that it can be 'just' that. not assuming it's all caused by it, but keeping in mind it can be and when it is, still no need to dispair so to speak. no matter how debilitating one might feel, if it's caused by thyroid things will get better with proper treatment. I think for me it would have been comforting if I would have known that at the time.

have a good day/evening and :wave:

midwest1 10-14-2012 12:31 PM

Re: lab results, but still have symptoms :(
Hugs back, my Friend. :wave:

Do you suppose the TSI Abs are the complicating factor in your and Fresno's situation? I suspect they could make all the difference.

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