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  • Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

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    Old 03-12-2013, 06:27 PM   #1
    moosekitty
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    Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Hi and thanks for reading. I am hoping for some insight on where to go from here. These are my past 2 labs.

    Oct 19,12

    TSH- (5.800) Range-(0.300-4.700) Total T3-(42) Range-(60-80) Free thyroxine (ft4)- (1.3) Range-(0.8-1.8)

    I was instructed by my family phys to take one more (Levothyroxine 125mcg) on W and Sun. Check in 8 weeks, below.
    I also started low carb high protien under 15 carbs a day on Nov 15th. When I do this diet, I notice my thyroid goes wacky.

    Re-check,different lab.
    Jan 17,13

    TSH-(0.06) Range-(0.35-5.50) Total T3-(58) Range-(60-181) Free T4(1.02) Range-(0.59-1.17)

    Doc now says to take 2 less pills of Levo on Wen / Sun.

    I have not been back for a re-check, as I really donít know at this point if I trust my docs opinion on treatment.

    Backround info.

    I am a 56 year yr. old female in Post Meno. (I had the blood work done also in Oct. for meno) I started on Synthroid when I was 17. I stopped on my own at 20 (couldnít afford doctors or meds)
    Checked at 22, no problems.

    Checked yearly. Not Hypo again till 1991, put on 88mcg synthroid and increased the next 10 years till up to 175mcg. In 2000, switched to Armour by alternative doc. Felt the worst ever for an entire year and my t3 was just not improving. Switched doc again. (one I have now) she gives me script for 175mcg synthroid. Itís been a rollercoaster since. Up and down. 2006 labs shows thymoglobin antibodies (83)and thyroid peroxidase is (238) Hashimotos, I was told. Never been retested for it.

    So present day I again am so confused. The past two weeks, I am sweating off and on, hot than cold, heart pounding, shaky, anxious and my hair is falling out. Thought maybe, female hormones but my labs show I am post menopausal.
    Also, I noticed going through my labs the past 12 years that every single one, I have a low rbc and was never addressed?

    Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Thanks so much for reading this. Renee

     
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    Old 03-13-2013, 11:08 AM   #2
    midwest1
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Wow. Lots of things going on there. I'm not sure I know what to say, but I can offer some generalities.

    When you tried Armour, was it at least 2 grains (120 mgs) per day? That's what it would take to equal the 175 Synthroid you were taking at that time. Not every MD knows how to exchange the two drugs, so they often underdose with the Armour.

    You did seem to be slightly hyper on the Jan labs. FT4 was about 75% of its range, which is too high for the majority. A dose decrease was in order. The two 125-mcg pills fewer per week would amount to around 36 mcgs less/day. So that put you at roughly 90 mcgs per day. That was a sizeable decrease that might have overshot the relatively small decrease of T4 that you needed. You really need to have labs done now to see where your T4/T3 are. You can't go by symptoms alone; even though you have what would be classic hyperT symptoms, hypoT ones can often manifest the same way. You want to have supporting labs to know what move to make next.

    Some people do fine with the "take-an-extra-dose-once-or-twice-a-week" method. But really, it often works much better to have a consistent, every day dose. That would decrease the probability that you're swinging hypo-to-hyper and back again after each lab check.

    Your diet connection is interesting, but I don't know what to make of it. Diet change to an increase of soy protein or large amounts of fiber would increase the need for thyroid hormone. Conversely, decreasing those would decrease the need. Unless the carbs you've eliminated are mostly high-fiber carbs, I don't understand why your need for hormone would decrease.

    The problem with optimal treatment is that our physiologies change. The trick is to find ways to change the treatment to them. Speaking for myself... I take Armour. My dose hasn't changed since I finished the titration process 9 years ago. But my body's reaction to it has changed. My free Ts are now lower than they were then, but I don't have symptoms from it. Apparently, my body is now happy with lower Ts than I needed when I was 10 years younger. Some things are just unexplainable, and we can only experiment with various things to come up with solutions.

    The Hashimoto's antibodies don't matter to you now. They only indicate the reason you're hypo, but they don't change the treatment.

    I don't know the meaning of your RBC, sorry.
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    Old 03-13-2013, 01:05 PM   #3
    moosekitty
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
    Wow. Lots of things going on there. I'm not sure I know what to say, but I can offer some generalities.

    When you tried Armour, was it at least 2 grains (120 mgs) per day? That's what it would take to equal the 175 Synthroid you were taking at that time. Not every MD knows how to exchange the two drugs, so they often underdose with the Armour.

    You did seem to be slightly hyper on the Jan labs. FT4 was about 75% of its range, which is too high for the majority. A dose decrease was in order. The two 125-mcg pills fewer per week would amount to around 36 mcgs less/day. So that put you at roughly 90 mcgs per day. That was a sizeable decrease that might have overshot the relatively small decrease of T4 that you needed. You really need to have labs done now to see where your T4/T3 are. You can't go by symptoms alone; even though you have what would be classic hyperT symptoms, hypoT ones can often manifest the same way. You want to have supporting labs to know what move to make next.

    Some people do fine with the "take-an-extra-dose-once-or-twice-a-week" method. But really, it often works much better to have a consistent, every day dose. That would decrease the probability that you're swinging hypo-to-hyper and back again after each lab check.

    Your diet connection is interesting, but I don't know what to make of it. Diet change to an increase of soy protein or large amounts of fiber would increase the need for thyroid hormone. Conversely, decreasing those would decrease the need. Unless the carbs you've eliminated are mostly high-fiber carbs, I don't understand why your need for hormone would decrease.

    The problem with optimal treatment is that our physiologies change. The trick is to find ways to change the treatment to them. Speaking for myself... I take Armour. My dose hasn't changed since I finished the titration process 9 years ago. But my body's reaction to it has changed. My free Ts are now lower than they were then, but I don't have symptoms from it. Apparently, my body is now happy with lower Ts than I needed when I was 10 years younger. Some things are just unexplainable, and we can only experiment with various things to come up with solutions.

    The Hashimoto's antibodies don't matter to you now. They only indicate the reason you're hypo, but they don't change the treatment.

    I don't know the meaning of your RBC, sorry.
    First off, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

    There is alot going on there! When I switched to armour it was because I did not want to take a pharm drug, I wanted something more natural and I wanted to have a more natural approach to my health. At that time I was taking 112 mcg of synthroid. (i should have stated that better, meaning that I wans't on 175 when I want to the holistic doc) He started me on 1 grain and for an entire year adjusted the dosage trying to get my level correct. I felt worse on the armour than the synthroid. I was disappointed that I had to go back on synthroid, only because it was a pharm drug and I don't like taking any. I then went back to a traditional doc, DO who was recommended and she did my labs. She had to put me on 175mcg to get things in line again. It worked and 8 weeks later she started to decrease my dose to where labs were stable again. Since 2003, I have been on 125 mcg. My doctor does do the "take 2 more", take 2 less" quite often and then checks levels. These past 2 labs though are really something I have never seen in my bloodwork. Go from one extreme to another in 8 weeks. I started the low carb right after the first lab as my Triglycerides were 403. I cut out carbs, all carbs, just a few veggies, maybe 1/2 a cup a day and ate lean protien only. My lipids (cholesteral/trig/hdl/ldl) changed drasticley to the better in 8 weeks. But my thyroid went wacky.

    So I thought maybe that is why my 2nd lab 8 weeks later in Jan was so weird. I read on a few websites that wheat and high carbs can mess with the thyroid and some people that are hypo can get better by cutting wheat and all grains out of their bodies, not just a gluten problem, but a carbohydrate problem. I know that it has cured my belly issues with Gerd, indigestion, food not digesting right, gastritis, heartburn, almost immediatley! I have been on Prevacid for years and haven't touched one in almost 4 months. Gut problems can cause a lot of other issues and for me, I agree. Healed gut, healed body. Dr. Davis, wheat belly author has a great video on you tube that explains it.

    The rbc is, red blood count. Mine is always very low. It might be anemic or low iron which hypo can cause.

    Honestly, I don't even know how to read the labs or what they mean.

    From reading online today, low tsh and low t3 can be a problem with the pituitary. But it states a low free t3 and I have never had that test. I will now though!

    I called several doctors suggested on yahoo boards today and all are not taking new patients. So I called my doc and made an appt. even though we butt heads. She is very arrogant and always will ask when I suggest something "when did you get you're doctorate?" Or quit playing internet doctor and let me do my job. I'm intimidated by her. But I know I need to back up what I say with studies this time. Lot's of work tonight!

    If you have any other ideas, I would love to hear them as I am learning. Thanks so much! Very much appreciated kind one!

     
    Old 03-16-2013, 06:11 PM   #4
    Lady50
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    The Total T3 is not a good test. I asked for Ft3 but they did the Total T3. Mine was 88 in the same range as in your January test.
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    Old 03-16-2013, 07:05 PM   #5
    moosekitty
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lady50 View Post
    The Total T3 is not a good test. I asked for Ft3 but they did the Total T3. Mine was 88 in the same range as in your January test.
    Hi.
    Yours was 88? Looking back I thought I typed it wrong in my post above. Mine was 58 in Jan, a little better than Oct of 42.

    I had all my test re-done on Thurs. I should know by Mon. They did the free t3 this time as well as the others. I'm anxiously waiting. Thank you for commenting.

     
    Old 03-16-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Oh thats great. I should have made them do the Ft3 but am dealing with low iron and am thinking that is why my Total t3 is low.

    With low iron I am unable to convert T4 to T3. So just going to build up my iron first.

    Good luck
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    Old 03-16-2013, 07:31 PM   #7
    moosekitty
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    Re: Low TSH and Low T3 Normal T4

    Thank you! They also did an anemia panel also. Take care.

     
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