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    Old 04-09-2013, 12:29 AM   #1
    hypomare
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    My experience and need help

    Dear all

    This is my first post and I'm realy happy to find this site.
    First, Im sorry about my poor English. Second, I would like to thank you so much to take the time reading my experience.

    My symptoms started about 16 years ago. They were No libido, hairfall and too much sleep. Years later, I started to get deppressed, has no feelings, piles,no appitite,loose stool despite I only go to the pathroom only once a week ( where the food I have everyday go).

    I was treating every somptom alone by going to the Doctor specialize in the symptoms like piles, hairfall, libido ...etc with no luck.

    Two years ago I started to get tired in addition to my old symtoms. I went to the doctor and he did blood check and he checked my thyroid .
    TSH = 11 range (0.4 - 4) and he told me that I'm hypothyroid and I have to take one pill everyday and all my symptoms will disappear.
    I was so happy that I discover what causes all my symptoms and they will go especially my libido.
    He gave me levothyroxine. A brand called(Euthyrox 25 mcg).

    The first three days I felt wonderful then I got new symtoms (strange symptoms) like cant sleep. Second week, I felt realy hypothyroid with all hypothyroidism symptoms and they were severe.
    After six weeks TSH = 5.5 , FT4 =0.8 (0.7 - 1.8), FT3 =2.7 (1.5 -3.5)
    Increase my dose to 50 mcg then my symptoms worse specially no libido. But i was serving the net everyday reading about hypothyroidism (I have hashimotos thyrotitis) and I have to hang in there until my body adjusted to the medicine.
    After another six weeks TSH =0.5, FT4 = 0.8, FT3= 2.6 my thyroid started to swell.
    Then Decrease dose to drop one pill every week and after six weeks TSH = 0.4
    Increase dose to 75 mcg and i started to feel better a little bit but my thyroid swelled more.
    After six week, TSH = 1.5, FT4=1.09, FT3= 2.4
    Increase the dose to 100 mcg
    After eight weeks TSH = 0.07, FT4= 1.14, FT3= 2.1
    With 100 mcg symtoms better but in addition to no libido I lost my erection wth levothyroxine and swelled thyroid.
    A month later develop a pain in my thyroid (swelled and painful) and develop somthing like a small stone at the right of my thyroid.
    I was scared and I stop this medicine called euthyrox. I hate it.
    Went to the doctore and he switched me to Eltroxin.
    For me Eltroxin is much better than Euthyrox. I dont feel much better with it but at least no pain in thyroid and no sever hypothyroid symptoms.
    Here is my levels with every dose increase:
    100 mcg TSH = 2.38, FT4=0.99, FT3 = 2.7
    125 mcg TSH = 1.8, FT4 = 1.12, FT3 = 2.4 (1.5 - 3.5)
    now I'm taking 150 mcg and this week i will check my levels.
    What I noticed the following:
    1- every dose increase my FT3 Drop despite feeling a little better.
    2- I advice anyone who dont feel better or feel worse to switch brands before he judge that levothyroxine is bad or useless.
    3- I lost my libido entirely with treatments also my erection.
    Do you think I will feel normal if I take 150 mcg for months. actually, the last two months i feel up and down ( like two days good and couple of days bad) even libido started to get better the days when I feel good. I get frustrated when symptoms back after only two days of feeling good.
    You know what. I dont pay much attention about all my symptoms except libido.
    I just got married and I love my wife so much and I want to make her happy, I want to please her. Sometimes I'm about to cry when we are in bed and i dont have libido no erection like a child. she is 20 years old. she also love me so much. I married the same day and my cousin and im afraid from my cousin wife. she might tell my wife they have sex everyday or multiple times a day. My cousin is healthy with no diseases (God bless him).

    Sorry for this long story,
    I hope you all feel happy and healthy
    Regards,

     
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    Old 04-09-2013, 01:25 AM   #2
    Surfing4answers
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Hi hypomare,

    Sorry for the reason you are here but welcome! It is possible that you are not converting your Ft4 to Ft3 which is what your body should naturally do once it has enough T4 which is what your medication gives you. Your FT4 is good if not a little high as per your labs so an increase of your meds will only increase this more, which you do not want especially while your T3 remains low.

    Have you asked your doctor or has your doctor suggested introducing a very small dose of T3 to bring this level up. I believe it is good to have the Ft4 and Ft3 within about 10% of each other for a good balance. You may find you can actually lower your meds with this introduction to bring the T4 in line.

    T3 is quite potent so small dosages to start with then test and adjust as necessary if your doctor prescribes it. Perhaps show all of your results to him together to confirm the Ft3 is not moving.

    A test that can be done is the reverse T3 test, this shows if your body is just dumping the T3 without converting, it is not overly useful other than to confirm you are not converting but your stagnant free 3 is showing this anyway.

    The thyroid affects all hormones in the body s does the adrenal gland (cortisol levels) it might be worth getting your testosterone level checked also, thyroid meds might improve this on its own but keep an eye on it either way. Hopefully you will start to feel improvements soon. All the best. Surfer

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 01:55 AM   #3
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Surfing4answers View Post
    Hi hypomare,

    Sorry for the reason you are here but welcome! It is possible that you are not converting your Ft4 to Ft3 which is what your body should naturally do once it has enough T4 which is what your medication gives you. Your FT4 is good if not a little high as per your labs so an increase of your meds will only increase this more, which you do not want especially while your T3 remains low.

    Have you asked your doctor or has your doctor suggested introducing a very small dose of T3 to bring this level up. I believe it is good to have the Ft4 and Ft3 within about 10% of each other for a good balance. You may find you can actually lower your meds with this introduction to bring the T4 in line.

    T3 is quite potent so small dosages to start with then test and adjust as necessary if your doctor prescribes it. Perhaps show all of your results to him together to confirm the Ft3 is not moving.

    A test that can be done is the reverse T3 test, this shows if your body is just dumping the T3 without converting, it is not overly useful other than to confirm you are not converting but your stagnant free 3 is showing this anyway.

    The thyroid affects all hormones in the body s does the adrenal gland (cortisol levels) it might be worth getting your testosterone level checked also, thyroid meds might improve this on its own but keep an eye on it either way. Hopefully you will start to feel improvements soon. All the best. Surfer
    First, thank you so much for your reply and your advice.
    My FT3 not only the same but it drops every dose increase and my last Ft4 result is 1.12 range (0.7-1.8)
    Every dose increase FT4 elevates a little bit and my FT3 drops.
    Unfortunately, no T3 medication in my country.
    I did check my morning cortisol and was 11.7 range (0.3 -21)
    This week I going to check RT3, in addition to TSH, FT4 and FT3 and post the result here.
    Actually, these days i feel on and off. like two days a week I feel better and the next days my symptoms return. these days my face is red, puffiness under my eyes and urinate frequently.
    Again, thank you so much

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 02:19 AM   #4
    gloom
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    Re: My experience and need help

    One question I have is did they test your Testosterone and Cortisol levels?

    In men Testosterone is a metabolic hormone and has a great influence on libido, erections and general health. Very common for doctors to ignore low testosterone.

    Cortisol is another hormone that is very important. Any problems with it, either too low or too high will cause symptoms. In particular if cortisol is low, it should be treated first, before thyroid.

    Also testing for both of these is trickier because they vary due to a daily cycle. Typically higher in the morning, low later in the day. So the lab ranges are very wide. Problem is a man with testosterone of 450 in the morning, which is 'normal range' will have much low levels later in the day, very much below range.

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 03:15 AM   #5
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gloom View Post
    One question I have is did they test your Testosterone and Cortisol levels?

    In men Testosterone is a metabolic hormone and has a great influence on libido, erections and general health. Very common for doctors to ignore low testosterone.

    Cortisol is another hormone that is very important. Any problems with it, either too low or too high will cause symptoms. In particular if cortisol is low, it should be treated first, before thyroid.

    Also testing for both of these is trickier because they vary due to a daily cycle. Typically higher in the morning, low later in the day. So the lab ranges are very wide. Problem is a man with testosterone of 450 in the morning, which is 'normal range' will have much low levels later in the day, very much below range.
    Actually, They did test my cortisol levels
    cortisol morning 11.7 range (3-21)
    cortisol evening 2.6 range (2.7 - 21)
    But they never tested my testosterone
    They also tested thyroid antibodies and confirmed my hashimotos
    Thank you

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 05:30 AM   #6
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    I forgot to say that one of my symptoms is sore and irritated eyes in the morning. I went to many doctors 10+ for no luck.
    After taking levothyroxine my eyes affected by it so much. That's when symptoms worse, my eyes is boodshot. When I feel good (happens rarely), my eyes is white.

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 07:07 AM   #7
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Your cortisol is just above 50% morning when it should be at its highest which is 60-80% of your lab range, late afternoon it is below your lab range. This shows your adrenals are struggling, adrenals affect both the thyroid and other hormones including testosterone.
    You need to support your adrenals right now as thyroid meds will not be nearly as affective. You may also find you might not need nearly as much thyroxine when the adrenals have been supported.

    Taking cortisol for adrenals if your doc suggests it, is a big decision and not one to take lightly so do look into and consider all natural methods first, see a naturopath for good advice on this, preferably one who is well respected in your area and who deals with adrenals and thyroid. Acupuncture is also good for adrenals.

    Have your testosterone levels checked also, along with iron and vit. D. Iron and vit D are notoriously low with thyroid issues. Even with normal supplementation of iron tablets and vit D3 I could not raise my levels. I now have iron injections every two weeks and have to take 4000ui of D3 just to get them in range.

    It is a good idea to educate yourself on all you can from reputable sources on thyroid and adrenals, find natural methods to assist your medical treatment and know why your doctor is choosing particular methods of treatment. Adrenals should always be treated before thyroid and yours are struggling. Doing both together is a slower road but also works so don't lose hope!

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 07:11 AM   #8
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    Re: My experience and need help

    I forgot to say, dry eyes are a common symptom it seems. I see a lot of people on these boards say the same thing, I too get very dry itchy eyes, particularly bad when I am over tired. My focus is also affected and seems to tkae longer. My optician found nothing except astigmatisms (spelling?) , I use drops to help this and it does help a bit but only to relieve symptoms, it does not cure it.

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 07:58 AM   #9
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Surving4answers, thank you so much.

    When I was on 100 mcg of Euthyrox, I started to feel better. Later I developed pain in my thyroid and stop it.
    Could I have addrenal fatigue because of hypothyroidism. Or the opposite.
    TPO & TG ab are all high.
    Do you think my addrenals will correct itself if hypothyroidism is treated.
    Also, why my doc. told me that my adrenals is ok.
    I have everyhypothyroidism symptoms most of the times. I want libido to come back or at least erection.

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 10:15 AM   #10
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    Re: My experience and need help

    So they should test your testosterone. That is a must, in the morning when the level is the highest. Anything less than mid range is suspicious with your symptoms. Also test for Prolactin, I think high levels will suppress other hormones.

    I did some looking at Cortisol testing. The problem with cortisol is the ranges for healthy and unhealthy overlap. So an AM level of less than 3 is confirm for Adrenal insufficiency. More than 3 and less than 15, requires more testing. Such as an ACTH stimulation test.

    PS: I read comments in profession literature that if a patient has one autoimmune disease there is a high chance they have another. So there could be multiple things going on.

    PSS: It's possible you have a pituitary problem, but the TSH of 11 seems to say no.

     
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    Old 04-09-2013, 10:44 PM   #11
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    My first symptoms were: Hot intolerance, no appetite, no libido, loose stool, very tired and sore eyes in the morning and I only go to the pathroom once a week. Is it addrenal fatigue?
    I remember when I was 14 years old, something was scaring me every night and I was crying and told my mother that I hear things and I see and hear something like a finger strike the window despite I was living in third floor but my mother hear nothing. I thought it was a ghost that was scaring me too much. Maybe this is the cause of my addrenal fatigue. I don't know.

    Now, shall I stop thyroid medication or I give it more times maybe it will work. and how to treat my addrenal fatigue naturally? shall I just relax and sleep enough hours and take multiple vitamins?

    My erection dysfunction happened after taking thyroid medication. I urinate frequently. Is it because frequent urination?

    I'm going tomorrow to check the hormones and I will report the result here.
    These days, I get up tired in the morning then I feel better, feel worse in the evening.
    I was a very smart kid. I got grade A(100) in every subject. I had a memory to memorize anything somtimes made teachers shocked. Now, I'm stupied, sometimes I forget my friends names.
    What do you think guys? what to do?
    Is morning cortisol of 11.7 range (3 - 21) mild addrenal fatigue that will be corrected if thyroid corrected?
    I forgot to mention that I feel very cold and shivering if for example I'm in work interview or if someone fighting me.I also have so much hair on my face and body.
    Thank you so much all.

    Last edited by hypomare; 04-10-2013 at 02:15 AM. Reason: edit

     
    Old 04-09-2013, 11:57 PM   #12
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    Re: My experience and need help

    It is not a good idea to decide on your own treatment, you are on meds for a reason! All of your symptoms can be thyroid and or adrenals as they do overlap. Do not stop thyroid treatment without speaking to your doctor, sometimes an adjustment is all that is needed but bear in mind you are already right up there on FT4 so a decrease more than an increase perhaps?
    Your normone tests will help your doc decide if you need testosterone , this would help the libido/erection problems.

    See a naturopath for a proper consultation they can help you in many ways in healing adrenals, with diet advice, supplements etc and give you what you are deficient in, the is no point in you taking a whole bunch of supplements if you do not need them.

    Have your liver function tested if you haven't already, a slow or sluggish liver can affect the thyroid med conversion also.
    As I have already suggested, getting iron and vit D will also tell you a lot. Low iron and vit D cause many issues including extreme fatigue, brain fog etc read up on these deficiencies as there is a lot of info on it and a lot of symptoms related to them.

    We cannot tell you what to do, only give suggestions and ideas on what you could look into, it is dangerous to self medicate or stop medications without your doctors say so.

    Ask people in your area who (naturopath, holistic medicine etc) specialises in things like diet, thyroid, adrenal fatigue and perhaps consider acupuncture it is very good for a host of things including liver function which will help both thyroid and adrenals.

    Please remember there is no overnight "cure" it is a long road to healing these issues and you need to be patient, also, adjusting your thyroid meds should be six weeks apart as it takes a while for your system to respond and your meds to have an affect.

     
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    Old 04-10-2013, 12:20 AM   #13
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Surfing4answers View Post
    It is not a good idea to decide on your own treatment, you are on meds for a reason! All of your symptoms can be thyroid and or adrenals as they do overlap. Do not stop thyroid treatment without speaking to your doctor, sometimes an adjustment is all that is needed but bear in mind you are already right up there on FT4 so a decrease more than an increase perhaps?
    Your normone tests will help your doc decide if you need testosterone , this would help the libido/erection problems.

    See a naturopath for a proper consultation they can help you in many ways in healing adrenals, with diet advice, supplements etc and give you what you are deficient in, the is no point in you taking a whole bunch of supplements if you do not need them.

    Have your liver function tested if you haven't already, a slow or sluggish liver can affect the thyroid med conversion also.
    As I have already suggested, getting iron and vit D will also tell you a lot. Low iron and vit D cause many issues including extreme fatigue, brain fog etc read up on these deficiencies as there is a lot of info on it and a lot of symptoms related to them.

    We cannot tell you what to do, only give suggestions and ideas on what you could look into, it is dangerous to self medicate or stop medications without your doctors say so.

    Ask people in your area who (naturopath, holistic medicine etc) specialises in things like diet, thyroid, adrenal fatigue and perhaps consider acupuncture it is very good for a host of things including liver function which will help both thyroid and adrenals.

    Please remember there is no overnight "cure" it is a long road to healing these issues and you need to be patient, also, adjusting your thyroid meds should be six weeks apart as it takes a while for your system to respond and your meds to have an affect.
    First, Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Surving4answers for your help and your precious time, and also thank you so much gloom.

    I will work with my doctor to try everything until we find the root of the porblem.
    For acupuncture, I did go to someone who puts cups on some parts of the body to suck blood but I got worse after that, although many people feel energetic after that but didnt work for me.

    If anything new, symptoms or blood tests, I will post it here.
    Again, plenty of thanks

     
    Old 04-11-2013, 02:56 PM   #14
    hypomare
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    Re: My experience and need help

    We checked my thyroid levels, prolactine and testosterone. Here is the result:
    April 11, 2013, 150 mcg Eltroxin:

    TSH =0.05 range (0.47 - 4.64)
    Free T3 = 3.08 range (1.45 - 3.48)
    Free T4= 1.24 range (0.71 - 1.85)
    Prolactin = 15.4 range (4.04 - 15.2)
    Testosterone(total) AM = 5.7 range (2.8 - 8)

    Feb 18, 2013, 125 mcg Eltroxin:
    Free T3= 2.46 (same range)
    Free T4= 1.12 (same range)
    TSH = 1.81. (same range)

    Now, my doctor decrease my dose again to 125 mcg and told me to take one day 150 mcg and 100 the next day because Eltroxin 125 mcg does not exist. Is it a problem taking this instead of 125 mcg everyday.

    Why my prolactin is high. And why my levels jumped up so much when increased from 125 to 150 mcg.
    I'm happy because my libido increased yesterday and today. I dont have hyper symptoms now.
    We did checked cortisol but that was on 9:00 am but i will get the result on saterday.
    Why my prolactin is high and what do you think guys about the lab result?
    Any kind of help is appreciated.

     
    Old 04-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #15
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    Re: My experience and need help

    Hi again,

    Well your results are looking better, now though the t4 could possibly do with a little nudge, but not much of one,reducing your meds won't help that. Your results have "jumped up" because you are responding well to the increase.

    Altering your meds the way your doc has suggested will not be an issue should this happen As it is a T4 med and slow releasing, a lot of people alternate like this due to the fact that they only come in so many sizes.

    High prolactin, (yours isnt that high but it is out of range high) this affects libido, erection and fertility in men. It is caused by high prolactin levels produced in the pituitary gland. Thyroid disease can be a cause of this but there are many reasons.
    Symptoms are also similar to those of thyroid disease, fatigue, hair loss, low libido etc.

    Dopamine medications can reduce prolactin levels and are said to "restore fertility" some of your symptoms could be from the pituitary/prolactin level and may be relieved if this is treated separately which could mean reducing thyroid meds also but I am just taking a guess at that, so ask your doctor to explain everything so you know exactly what is going on and if he intends to look further Into the raised level on this.

    I do not know if treating the thyroid issue will affect the prolactin level, I am not very knowledgeable in this area, perhaps gloom can shed some light there for you from a male perspective.

    It is good that your thyroid levels have improved, good to hear you are also doing better.

     
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