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p-nacho 05-04-2003 12:24 AM

flushing of joints.. can it hurts?
I was just curious as to if anyone has had their joints flushed out? Does it help? Is there a chance that they will remove scar tissue but create new scar tissue instead?


ackk .. please forgive the misspelling in the topic.. I should have put 'hurt'.

[This message has been edited by p-nacho (edited 05-04-2003).]

goodwillstacy 05-04-2003 04:44 PM

By flushing the joints out, I assume you mean an arthrocentesis. There are several of us here that have had them. I had one on Feb. 4th. So far it has not helped, but that does not mean it won't work for you. For people that have lack of lubrication in their joints it is great because they usually at the same time they flush, inject a steroid in there.
I've read tons of studies on the arthrocentesis and it is beginning to look like the results of an arthrocentesis and arthroscopy are the same!
If you want to read the reports just go to the journal of oral and maxillofacial surgery's website, and do a search for TMJ. You will come up with a bunch of interesting stuff.
Hope you are having a great weekend,

p-nacho 05-05-2003 12:00 AM

Thanks for the info Stacy. Did you have any kickbacks from it (i.e. more pain or swelling) or did it just not help at all?


Isew4work 05-05-2003 05:18 AM

I had that done in November. I really wish that I would not have had the procedure. If I could go back and do it again I would re evaluate how bad off I really was before I had gotten it done. It actually made me worse than I was before I got it done. I had never read any of the posts on this board before I got the procedure. Now that I have been reading on here for a while, I understand tmj a bit more, and I am greatful that I do. My Dr. wanted to do a more invasive surgery once the arthrocentesis did not work, but I declined.

Here were my symptoms before I had surgery. Cracking, popping and over extension of my jaw. Sharp pain shooting into my ear when I chewed, and my jaw would lock up if I got it into a position it shouldn't be in, for example chewing pop corn kernel, or biting large into an apple. I wish I would have realized that those were pretty mild symptoms. Now my jaw opening locks at about 23 mm alot of the time, it clicks and cracks much louder and more painfully. My neck and jaw hurt often, and have frequent headaches.

I hope I have not discouraged you from doing something that you need to do, but maybe I have helped you consider something that could avoid making things worse. Only you and your Dr. can decide that. Try to consider if your TMJ dr or oral surgeon have done all that they can for you and this is the only next step that they can do for you to make you feel like you are still being treated. If that is the case, I would reconsider it. Physical therapy might help you out. It is a must after arthrocentesis. I had it for 8 weeks after. They did not tell me that ahead of time, that I would need it.

Good luck on your decision.

p-nacho 05-05-2003 02:03 PM

Thanks for sharing Mary. Do you know if your tmj problem is more joint or muscle related?


goodwillstacy 05-05-2003 08:09 PM

Hi P,
I did have more pain, and my left jaw (the one that it was done on) is locked now. The right is only locked sometimes. I think the procedure can be extremely successful for some people.
As for swelling, I'm not really sure about inside the joint, I would assume there is more due to the lock and the invasion of the joint. I also wanted to say, since you asked Mary, that my TMJ problem is in fact joint related.
Are you thinking about having this done?
hope you're having a pain-free night.

Isew4work 05-05-2003 08:34 PM

I am having a hard time getting the Dr. to be specific but the more that I have learned, the more that I am sure that my tmj troubles are mostly muscle related. I know that there is displacement of my disks, and they cannot tell for sure how much the disk is deteorated unless they look inside (arhtoscopic surgery) but for now I am pretty sure its muscle related. As soon as my physical therapy appointments stopped it got worse, which tells me muscles.

Good luck to you.
I hope it works out well.

goodwillstacy 05-06-2003 07:47 AM

You might also want to keep in mind that joint derangement can cause muscle problems as well.

HRevero 05-06-2003 10:00 AM

You sre so awesome - thank you!!!!
Heather [img][/img]

Isew4work 05-06-2003 08:14 PM

Would joint derangement show up on my MRI? Mine showed no real damage to the joint, just that the disks were displaced forward. I am pretty much out of treatment right now. For a couple of reasons. I developed that weird cough in March(which has not gone away yet) and could not sleep with my splint. When I stopped I noticed absolutely no difference than if I wore it. (which I wore it faithfully for 2 years) So I gave that up. Then I sort of experimented with trying to not take the 10 mg of elevil at night. THat was a bad idea, I woke up in much pain. So right now the only treatment I am doing is the elevil. It sounds crazy, but it seems like since I am not electing surgery that my Doc does not have many other solutions for me. So as you can tell, my pain is not that bad or I would be banging on his door, or another doctor.
My plan for now is to wait and see, for as long as I can. My summer should be pretty low stress, so I think I will just take one day at a time. Do you guyes think that is a good idea? I have played around with the idea of trying another DR. that someone on here referred to, but I am just not in that terrible of pain to start the whole process over again. I will know when its time I guess. My opening is good most of the time, but the clunking and cracking is hurting more lately, and the locking up is becoming more frequent again. ( I think I am secretly trying to let it get a bit bad, and then try again at my splint, when its not that bad its too hard to see any improvement). So thats where I stand, crazy as ever I guess!
Thanks for listening to my update, as it turned out!

goodwillstacy 05-06-2003 08:30 PM

A displaced disc *is* joint derangement. Joint damage, as far as a preforated disc, might or might not show up on an MRI depending on where the damage is located. A calcified disc will not show up.
I am not suprised that you have seen no difference in your symptoms since you haven't been wearing your splint. I've never gotten better with a splint. Only worse or stayed the same.
I think it's a fine idea that if you are not in pain, to just wait it out. I mean, if you can manage your symptoms with ice, heat, massage, otc pain relievers, and whatever other medicines you have, that is great. That is how most people with TMJ do it.
If it turns out that your jaw locks permanently, or starts hurting a lot, you know of course that you should probably see someone.
I think your gameplan sounds fine. I'm glad to hear that you aren't in excruciating pain anymore!

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