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  • Dislocated/Displaced Disc....Anyone's Opinion or Experience

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    Old 06-30-2003, 05:22 AM   #1
    Cymy Sue
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    Post Dislocated/Displaced Disc....Anyone's Opinion or Experience

    There are several threads now discussing this issue and a lot of confusion as to what this means.

    Some of the questions are:
    Does Splint Therapy work to recapture?
    (Marlene has had successful treatment) Others?

    If the disc are out of the joint or dislocated, why is this a source of terrible pain for some and not for others?

    Why would some Doctors try everything possible to recapture the disc or in severe cases, surgery to repair or remove the disc and some say it's possible to have dislocated disc and not even know it?
    (I know we have one member who is living with a dislocated disc and managing with it)

    How can a TM Joint function properly and without damage to the bone with no padding? (bone on bone)

    (A)If this is possible, why after a discectomy is it so important that scar tissue form where the disc was?

    (B)Also, if this is possible, where does the disc go?
    The joint capsule is so sensitive and there are so many nerves in this area, where does it go and not cause pain?

    Some of these questions have been ask and answered before, however there are so many theories regarding this situation, I would appreciate anyone's thoughts, experience or opinion. The last question is one I can not find any information on. I (as others) read that this is possible, even common, but they never explain how.

    Thanks,
    Cymy Sue




    [This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 07-02-2003).]

     
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    Old 06-30-2003, 05:53 AM   #2
    Isew4work
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    Cymy Sue,
    I wish I knew more about this but I only know what I have been told about myself. My disks are displaced each time I close my mouth. They slide in and out. I do not have very much jaw pain, mostly just a tired uncomfortable feeling. My jaw locks up but it is locking because the muscle is in spasm, not because the disk is displaced. My Dr. is treating me with a lower jaw splint made to cover all of my bottom teeth, while it is in, it holds my jaw in the correct position for me. While it is in my jaw only pops once or twice and does not move ot the side so badly upon opening. I was told that this appliace will probably not recapture my disks but it is possible.

    The oral surgeon who insisted I first needed the arthrocentesis surgery that failed thought that I now needed arthoscopic surgery to hold the disk in place. Thankfully I researched more and found this board and did not go through with the next surgery. I think that this would have not been successful because he would not have fixed the problem that brought my to having displaced disks in the first place. They would have just displaced again and caused undue scar tissue.

    I know that I have stated all of this before but I thought it might help anyone who is new and does not know this. You can live just fine with displaced disks. The real key is to find a Dr who wants to know why things are wrong and is willing to take the time to fix that problem.

    Mary

     
    Old 06-30-2003, 09:18 AM   #3
    TC543
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    Cymy Sue,

    I wish I knew the answers to these questions! One more question to add: If your disc is displaced with reduction (like I think mine is), can scar tissue forms in the areas where the disc is not in the proper place, like the position where your mouth is closed and up to the point where the condyle pops back on the disc? And if there is scar tissue there already, how do they ever expect the scar tissue not to interfere with the condyle staying on the disc IF the disc is
    ever recaptured? I hope that made sense.

    TC

     
    Old 06-30-2003, 10:39 AM   #4
    navy2
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    Hi Mary,

    Thank-you for the post. I'm hoping that's the case with me too. Tomorrow I'm going to see a neuro dentist.Hopefully he'll know what to do.

    Take care!
    Navy

     
    Old 06-30-2003, 10:48 AM   #5
    OHJELJ
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    Hey Cymy Sue,

    Does Splint Therapy work to recapture?
    Well, in some cases I guess it does...not in my case though.

    If the disc are out of the joint or dislocated, why is this a source of terrible pain for some and not for others?

    My PT and I think that it all depends on where the disk is dislocated to....mine were in front of the joint and that allowed the bone to hit soft tissue and caused pain for me...

    Why would some Doctors try everything possible to recapture the disc or in severe cases, surgery to repair or remove the disc and some say it's possible to have dislocated disc and not even know it?

    My surgeon basically says that he could pull 100 people off the street and 14 of them would have disks that are dislocated and only 3 of them would feel any pain. I came to him in agony and had been in splint therapy for 3 years before the first time I had arthroscopy....so he knew based upon my history and my MRI that the splints wouldn't be an option for me. In fact, they caused more pain than without a splint in my case. I couldn't even wear my bite plate until after the surgery!

    This disorder, for lack of a better term, is so subjective from person to person. I have a very high threshold for pain, but can't function with a dislocated disk....my dad's jaw pops so loud every time he chews you can hear him in the next room and he has no pain at all...there's no rhyme or reason.

    I can say that I think in my case at least, the most pain for me is the muscles in my head and face. They don't calm down unless everything is in it's place either. Splints, PT, massage therapy you name it, nothing will ease the pain except for having everything 'fixed' with the surgery.

    I had two teeth filled this morning and I look like I was slammed in the face, but the pain is controlled. If I had this work done before surgery, I would be in bed on Flexeril and a heating pad waiting to die.

    I know this note doesn't even come close to 'answering' your questions, but I think there won't be a specific answer. There are so many muscles and nerves in the head that any number of combinations of pain can occur from person to person!

    Good luck in your quest for info and I hope this helped!

    Take care,
    Jennifer


     
    Old 06-30-2003, 05:27 PM   #6
    TiffanyAnn
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by OHJELJ:


    I know this note doesn't even come close to 'answering' your questions, but I think there won't be a specific answer. There are so many muscles and nerves in the head that any number of combinations of pain can occur from person to person!

    Good luck in your quest for info and I hope this helped!

    Take care,
    Jennifer

    Hi Jennifer:
    I think your answers to these questions were excellent. Each person is different. What works great for one may not necessarily work for the next. For me, I don't care if the disc is displaced if I can live without pain. I just wish I was one of those lucky ones who didn't have pain from it. But if splint therapy can get me out of pain I will consider myself fortunate.
    Tiffany


     
    Old 07-01-2003, 12:47 AM   #7
    Stacie212
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    TC,

    That's a very good question!! I never even thought about that. it would make sense that scar tissue would form. they never mentioned that on my MRI but they didn't mention the arthritis either - which my dentist saw on the films.
    Why does this keep getting worse and worse? At first, the jaw would only lock. but now it's 24/7 pain. I feel that the disc out of place for so long must cause a lot of changes in the joint, preventing the disc from ever going back. What scares me about all this is that if you asked even a TMJ specialist all the questions, he wouldn't really be able to give you any definite answers. Just a "well, we will try and see." I can't believe there are people out there with the same clicking and popping but with no pain - becasue whenever my jaw pops I feel like I'm going to die. at first, my jaw would just lock and the pain wasn't nearly as bad as it is now with all the constant popping. i feel like I make it worse with the popping but I can't talk or eat otherwises - popping it is the only way I can open my mouth.


    I forget Marlene's success story. What were her problems and how was she treated?

    thanks,
    -Stacie

     
    Old 07-01-2003, 05:53 AM   #8
    TC543
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    Hi Stacie,

    I'm sorry you are hurting so much. I also have all the popping, but mine is not related to any deviation, at least not yet. Mine clicks on opening--pops on opening wide usually (subluxing supposedly) and clunks at least once when closing. Don't know for sure what it all means.... My joint noises themselves, don't seem to cause me pain--at least not immediately. But I do have referred pain to my ears, teeth, headaches, ringing ears, etc. I don't know if the TMJD causes all of them or not.

    As for Marlene. If I remember correctly, she had at least one displaced disc and used an Anterior Repositioning Splint followed by (possibly a palatal expander??) and braces.

    Take care of yourself. Hope you feel better.
    TC

     
    Old 07-01-2003, 10:31 AM   #9
    navy2
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    Hi TC!
    I hope you are doing well today. You know I just had a general dentist check out my bite, etc, He said the noise coming from my joint is nothing to worry about. He says that my main problem is the muscles pulling on the tmj joint. He could hardly get my jaw relaxed to do the molds. He is going to do a bite study and the oral surgeon is actually going to study them with him. He also explained the disc problem and said that it could go back once we got the bite taken care of and the muscles relaxed. He wants to send me to a conservative oral surgeon for an evaluation (splint?) If symptoms don't go away. I went to him because I was curious what his opinion was. I have a second appointment with the nureo tomorrow,
    I'm still hurting in the area where my left tmj is.
    I guess I need to take something for it,
    I stopped and made an appointment with a highly recommended massage therapist that treats TMJ. I'm going at 3 pm today. I hope he realxes my muscles.
    Take care of yourself!
    Navy

     
    Old 07-01-2003, 10:39 AM   #10
    navy2
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    Hi CymySue,

    I read your post, What I'm coming away with is that the doctors have changed their treatment of TMJ. At least many of them have. Even the oral surgeons I know have said that consesrvative treatment is the way to go. Some of them aren't even doing the surgeries anymore. The body is an amazing thing. For some people, can deal with tmj disfunction. I'm never going to have surgery if I can help it. But, 20 years ago, I probably would have been in surgery too. TMJ treatment is a very gray area. What works for one person, may not for another person.
    Take care!
    Navy

    [This message has been edited by navy2 (edited 07-01-2003).]

     
    Old 07-01-2003, 01:22 PM   #11
    GenDen
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    My TMJ specialist said that the ligaments that hold the disc in place do not have "elastic" fibers, so when they get stretched, they don't go back to the original length. Sometimes the disc can be recaptured if it isn't too "far gone." What my specialist tries to do is get the jaw in the optimal position from the standpoint of the joint space, angle of condyle, and also the muscles. Even if the disc isn't captured, in most cases everything heals and returns to "almost" normal. I say almost because I don't think those of us who have had TMJ dysfunction or Myofacial Pain can ever "abuse" the muscles and joint again without paying a price.
    I agree with above posts that say everyone is different. Sometimes the disc dislocates in such a way that the jaw locks. Others have a deviation on opening. There are all sorts of situations. I do think that most of the time healing occurs in any event when the joint is in the right position and the muscles are in a relaxed position. The body is amazing at adapting. Another variable is clenching. Everyone doesn't clench. But for those that do, clenching can cause trouble with the joints and/or the muscles. Specialists have different ways of dealing with clenching, but it is still a difficult problem to resolve.

     
    Old 07-01-2003, 01:36 PM   #12
    PINKYPRISCILLA
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    My tmj dr says that the disc once out can not be recaptured but can be put into a stable position where bone is not rubbing together and muscles and ligaments will hold it in a stable position, I guess the hard part is finding the proper position.

    Pain has a lot to do with individual thresholds of pain and also it depends if the dislocated joint is pressing on
    nerves or muscles in a way that brings on pain.

     
    Old 07-02-2003, 02:33 AM   #13
    Cymy Sue
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    Thank you all for your answers and experience. This has been a question that I have looked for answers for many years. I have many books written by the "Well-Knowns", other than some that are out of print. I have researched this everywhere on the net and there are no definites.

    Maybe the answer "is" everyone is different and Doctors have many different theories.

    Cymy Sue

     
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