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    Old 01-16-2004, 05:43 PM   #1
    SRH_NF_isback
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    Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Next month I believe I will receive prolotherapy. I've done some research on this and understand what it involves. I would like to know if anyone else has had this, how often, and if there were any positive results. Thanks.

    Sheldon

     
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    Old 01-16-2004, 08:28 PM   #2
    Arleen
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon:

    I can't help with your question, but was wondering what prolotherapy is, as I've never heard of it.

    Take care.
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    Old 01-16-2004, 08:30 PM   #3
    mdla
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Ive heard of it but didnt really understand what it is so I never made an appointment. I heard they can do it to many joints.
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    Old 01-16-2004, 09:11 PM   #4
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon,
    My understanding of this treatment is sugar injections to help tighten up the ligaments in the TMJ area. I do not know if it is successful, or what percentage is successful in regard to this treatment.
    Diane

     
    Old 01-17-2004, 02:22 PM   #5
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    For those of you who don't know, prolotherapy involves injecting a 'sugary' substance into the ligaments of the joints. This causes a 'healing frenzy' whereby the inflammed ligaments will heal and as a result tighten up, making it possible for the disks to maybe come back into place. I'm not sure how many of these I'll be getting, or how many are necessary. Also, I've done research and found no evidence that this will make things worse in any way, other than possible mild/moderate pain for 3 to 7 days because of the inflammation; I found absolutely nothing else in regards to a possible 'risk'. If it is possible for my disks to go back in place, I'm all for it.

    Sheldon

     
    Old 01-17-2004, 07:41 PM   #6
    mdla
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Ive had steriod injected into my disk space in arthrosintisis by 3 oral surgeons.

    Will you be awake or under for the proceedure? Are you sure those doing it understand the TMJ joint?

    The only reason I haven't tried the place I found that does it in West Hollywood, is it seems like they do all the joints, knees, shoulders etc they do TMJ too but Im not sure how much the docs know specifically about this joint since it seems to be so different than all the others in the body.

    Good luck and please let us know how it goes.
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    Old 01-17-2004, 08:49 PM   #7
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    mdla:

    As far as I know, my doctor, Dr. Rondeau, will be doing the procedure -- or, perhaps, his assistant.

    Sheldon

     
    Old 01-18-2004, 07:39 PM   #8
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon,

    Dr. Rondeau is also my dentist. I didn't realize he was certified to do prolotherapy. Are you sure that he will be doing it? He suggested prolotherapy to me about a year ago, but at the time I wasn't able to find anyone who was experienced in injecting the TMJ area. I'll have to ask him about it again. I've heard that it can be quite helpful.

    Best of luck.

    Crystal

     
    Old 01-18-2004, 11:04 PM   #9
    Arleen
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon,

    Where exactly does the injection go - into muscle, ligament, other? How often would you need to get injections? And what is the anticipated result from having them?

    If you don't mind my asking, what is the cost of this procedure? I've never heard of this before. Do you get a local anaesthetic?

    Take care and good luck with your treatment.
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    Old 01-21-2004, 12:52 AM   #10
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Arleen:

    I'm not sure, but I think the injection goes in the ligaments, because it is the ligaments that are supposed to tighten when healing after the injection. I don't know if I will be getting more than one injection. From what I understand, they are trying this because I seem like a candidate who may get positive results from it. The anticipated results, in the best of all possible worlds, would involve the ligaments tightening up, allowing the disk to move back in place. I don't know what the cost is. After asking me how much I paid for the splint, he said he wouldn't charge me for this procedure. I read on a website that these could cost anywhere from 150-500 dollars each time, the price depending on where it is being injected and how much is being used. I also read that some people don't get results until the second or third injection, and that it is normal for prolotherapy to involve up to five or six sessions, depending on the status of the patient. I'm not sure about a local anaesthetic. . . This procedure has been practised for over 60 years and was generally considered an 'alternative' mode of treatment. A website even stated that Prolotherapy used to be the standard treatment for TMJ. Recently, the mainstream medical community has begun to embrace prolotherapy, because of scientific evidence that it may help the ligaments, and with the worst case scenario being that it won't help while causing no more additional problems for the patient. Prolotherapy seems to require that there be a 'place' for the disks to come back, whereby the tightening ligaments force the disks to retract back into their proper positions.

    I must say that the office there has treated me good so far. Janie seems genuinely concerned about my progress, and I'm generally good at picking up unhealthy vibes -- in the academic profession you come across them every day. Anyhow, take care, and hope you start seeing improvements soon.

    Sheldon

     
    Old 01-21-2004, 05:22 PM   #11
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon:

    The prolotherapy treatment sounds very interesting. I'll have to do a search online and read about it. I hope that it helps you, whenever you start treatment.

    I'm curious, you say the dentist asked you how much you paid for the splint. Isn't it a splint he made for you? Just wondering because he discussed cost with me and made me sign a form that had the costs listed.

    Thanks for your good wishes. I've been unable to wear the splint because it's causing tooth movement, papilla recession and likely gum sores. So, I feel no further ahead at the moment.

    I know what you mean about academia. I've worked in that field (although not as a prof) for over 20 years.

    Take care
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    Last edited by Arleen; 01-21-2004 at 05:23 PM.

     
    Old 01-23-2004, 12:25 AM   #12
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Arleen:

    Yes, the splint I have is the one he made, and I also had to sign a form that had the costs listed. Perhaps he has that many patients that he doesn't remember precisely who pays what.

    For those gum sores, try extra vitamin C or Goldenseal Root....

    Take care.

    Sheldon

     
    Old 01-26-2004, 08:43 PM   #13
    Arleen
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Hi Sheldon:

    I came across this information on prolotheraphy on a healthy talk radio website. I don't know if you've started treatment yet, but you might be interested:

    "BACKGROUND:
    A hundred years ago, it may surprise you to learn that natural therapies such as herbs and homeopathy dominated the American practice of medicine. As the twenty-first century now dawns, the resurgence of interest in alternative therapies is greater than ever before. The most common reasons we seek out complementary or alternative therapies are those conditions poorly served by our conventional medical community. Pain is at the top of the list.

    The hallmark of alternative medicine is to provide to the body the nutrients it needs to heal. While we could discuss natural ways to relieve pain symptomatically, let’s focus on prolotherapy. Prolotherapy is a non-surgical, natural way to assist the body to repair injured tendons and ligaments. Pain relief is just one of its well-documented side effects.

    Who can benefit from prolotherapy? Anyone who suffers from one of the following:
    -Back pain
    -Neck pain
    -Arthritis pain
    -Migraines
    -Fibromyalgia
    -Sports injuries
    -RSD (reflex sympathetic dystrophy) pain
    -TMJ (temporomandibular joint dysfunction)
    -Tendonitis
    -Sciatica
    -Herniated disks
    -Bursitis
    -Joint pain, i.e. shoulder, elbow, hip, knee

    And the benefits are lasting as long as the patient continues an active use of the area involved.

    HISTORY
    The roots of prolotherapy, as it is presently practiced, date back to the 1920s. It has enjoyed a strong following since a resurgence in the 1950s. Its theory is akin to a technique used by Hippocrates who had a wonderful wisdom about the body’s ability to heal itself. Greek soldiers of ancient times with torn or dislocated shoulders endured a hot poker thrust into the joint by Hippocrates, which resulted in a miraculous healing of the body by itself. It is also closely related to sclerotherapy, the injection technique, for the repair of hernias by injection that developed in the 1830s.

    The intriguing history of prolotherapy includes one very satisfied patient who was told in his 40s to expect a life of chronic pain. That patient was a physician destined to make his mark as our surgeon general. C. Everett Koop, M.D. His personal expereince in getting total relief was so impressive that Dr. Koop offered prolotherapy to the parents of his pediatric patients whenever he observed them in pain. The physician, Dr. Gustav Hemwall, who treated Dr. Koop, was one of the greatest teachers of prolotherapy of our time. Many physicians who use both conventional and alternative treatment options find prolotherapy an essential tool to help their patients regain and maintain optimal health.

    HOW IT WORKS:
    Prolotherapy is an injection technique using natural substances that cause the proliferation of new cells where the ligament tissue has become weak. Prolotherapy uses the injection of a natural substance (which may be a dextrose solution among other choices), which causes a local inflammation in those areas of weak tissues and pain. The body’s response to inflammation is to draw additional blood there along with the flow of nutrients. All of this stimulates the tissue to heal itself. This healing cascade results in the body’s production of new collagen. The collagen becomes new ligament or tendon tissue. One of the properties of new collagen is to shrink as it matures. This contraction of the collagen makes the ligament tighter and much stronger than it was before. Ligaments that have been injured or have become weak rarely heal back to their original level of strength or endurance. One of the main reasons for this is the poor blood supply of the ligaments, which makes healing slow and often incomplete. Clinical studies have actually demonstrated increased ligament strength after prolotherapy and account for its lasting benefits, estimated to be an increase of 20-40%.

    The ligaments do have nerve endings. These nerves produce the pain sensation that marks every condition, which can be treated by prolotherapy, noted above. Once the ligament tissue has been tightened and strengthened, the area is stabilized and the pain often relieved.

    Because the substances used for injection are no longer patentable, pharmaceutical companies have no financial incentive to promote their use. Instead, we have a huge market focus on prescription antiinflammatory agents including the newly celebrated Celebrex and Vioxx. Many physicians who appreciate the wisdom and insight of Hippocrates now wonder if we risk limiting our body’s healing response with a “quick-to-write-a-‘script” approach to minimize the body’s inflammatory response. Perhaps, this may account for the fact pointed out by a European Conference in Rheumatology that no prescription drug has ever cured a single case of arthritis.

    These treatments may include the use of prolotherapy injections along with the use of injectable glucosamine, yes, that’s the oral nutrient has shown benefit for degenerative joints and disks, along with injections of human growth hormone (HGH) into the deteriorating joint.

    This approach addresses the weakened or injured ligaments and tendons, the deterioration of the gel-like cartilage within the joint that precipitates action when it becomes bone-on-bone, and the growth factors that combine for a triple healing team.

    WHO IS A CANDIDATE?
    The first step is to determine if you are a candidate by sitting down with a trained physician. Some of the signs and symptoms a skilled practitioner will assess include the following:

    -People with shoulder pain including those who have trouble sleeping on their shoulders
    -Those who suffer from joint dislocation
    -A joint that is worse with activity and better with rest
    -Someone whose chiropractic adjustments help, but don’t last
    -The problem does not respond to muscle relaxants, arthritis medication, cortisone shots, or nerve blocks during a six-week period
    -Cases of failed surgery
    -A joint that is aided by a brace, a sling, or a splint
    -The diagnosis of a ligament or tendon sprain or tear
    -The joint has a deep aching or pulling pain
    -Cases of shooting pain, tingling, or numbness
    -Temporal mandibular pain (TMJ)
    -Sciatica
    -Neck and back pain
    -Severe joint deterioration in patients advised to have joint replacement


    HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?
    One of the often asked question is “how many treatments will I need?” Because the healing process is largely individual, one patient may respond to 4-6 prolotherapy injections and another may need twice that or more to achieve full satisfaction. Patients with healthy immune systems seem to respond more quickly.

    Each session may involve multiple injections. Some practitioners note that lower back pain may require up to fifty injections per sessions. The pain of the injection is lessened with the use of an anesthetic such as lidocaine. Swelling and stiffness is very common for a few days after the injections.

    The injections, in skilled hands, are relatively benign. Dr. Koop states, “The nice thing about prolotherapy, if properly done, is that it cannot do any harm.” As with any medical technique, there can be complications. There were three instances in the early 1950s in the literature that involved an injection too close to the nerve resulting in severe complications. Dr. Hemwall who was the physician of Dr. Koop performed prolotherapy on over 10,000 patients with no serious complications ever noted. Dr. Hemwall states his success rate was 90%. The full healing response may take several months to achieve.

    The studies involving prolotherapy have been published in prestigious journals including Lancet and The Journal of the American Medical Association. These studies all cite success rates well over 50% and results lasting from 2-12 years or even longer.

    Take care.
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    Arleen

    Last edited by Arleen; 01-26-2004 at 08:44 PM.

     
    Old 01-26-2004, 10:04 PM   #14
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Arleen:

    Thanks for all that. From what I can see, a TMJ patient who is eligible for Prolotherapy must have disks which are able to move back into place because the 'space' is there for them to do so. So, if one has no disk, or if one is locked, prolotherapy does not seem like a real alternative.

    Hope you see improvement soon, Arleen, and it's much too early to give up on Dr. Rondeau. Even if it doesn't help in the end, at least you can say you gave the treatment a chance. I got my 'diagnostic report' in the mail today...I might post it as a different thread.
    Take care.

    Sheldon

     
    Old 01-31-2004, 02:19 AM   #15
    mdla
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    Re: Anyone Try Prolotherapy?

    Sheldon

    Did you end up getting the prolotherapy? Im so interested. I got 60/c of botox and the muscles feel a little better but the joint on one side hurts more than ever.
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