It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



TMJ Disorder -TemporoMandibular Joint Message Board

  • Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

  • Post New Thread   Reply Reply
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 11-19-2014, 05:06 AM   #1
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    I'll spare you the details of my TMJD story....essentially, I'm searching for some encouragement and success stories from someone who has used a "Deprogrammer". My dentist currently has me in a custom Deprogrammer that I'm supposed to wear at night and as much as I can during the day. This mouthpiece keeps my back teeth from touching and is supposed to relax the jaw muscles. If you've had success, then you know how it works

    After 3 days my occipital lobe headaches, facial pain, and ear ringing has gotten slightly worse. I'm praying this isn't a sign that this treatment will fail too. Please....someone give me some encouragement!

     
    Reply With Quote
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 11-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #2
    johnsyard
    Junior Member
    (male)
     
    johnsyard's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jun 2013
    Location: North East England
    Posts: 37
    johnsyard HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allied22 View Post
    I'll spare you the details of my TMJD story....essentially, I'm searching for some encouragement and success stories from someone who has used a "Deprogrammer". My dentist currently has me in a custom Deprogrammer that I'm supposed to wear at night and as much as I can during the day. This mouthpiece keeps my back teeth from touching and is supposed to relax the jaw muscles. If you've had success, then you know how it works

    After 3 days my occipital lobe headaches, facial pain, and ear ringing has gotten slightly worse. I'm praying this isn't a sign that this treatment will fail too. Please....someone give me some encouragement!


    Hi Allied22 , Sounds like what I call a jig that fits over front teeth. They can be successful , but it depends whether you have trigger points in your muscles of mastication, pterygoids masseter , temporalis --- myofascial pain. If so they will have to be got rid of through Myofascial release. I'm in this situation but have have previously been where the jig worked no problem.

    Regards

    Nick

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-21-2014, 06:54 AM   #3
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Hi Allied22,

    I'd actually like to know the details of how your TMJD started. Could you share that when you have a moment?

    From my experience, if you feel pain or get worse from some treatment, it means it is NOT right for you. And you'll only get worse and worse from it. A treatment in the right direction should give you some kind of relief immediately. That's how you can tell.

    And a deprogrammer does not work and is not necessary. Your jaw doesn't need to be reprogrammed. It doesn't have memory actually. If you will take my word as I've lived through this and experimented with it, your jaw will position itself according to the shape and relationship of your teeth. It's like there are sensors inside the mouth that tell the brain where your jaw should be and it changes as your tooth shape changes from restoration work or whatever. The brain will try to make your jaw balance and avoid pressure spots, even at the cost of the jaw muscles. In general, TMJD starts because the muscles are thrown out of balance because of changes inside your mouth that forces your jaw to be in an unnatural position for you.

    How to fix this depends on what happened that caused you TMJD in the first place. That's why I'd like to know what was the cause of your TMJD.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-24-2014, 12:19 PM   #4
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Jpat08!

    I would love to tell you my story and seek your help! In July I received two small fillings in between my two back teeth (top/right). For the next three months I went back to my dentist 5 times complaining of tingling pain and discomfort. Finally, at the end of September, my dentist redid the fillings. He found that the filling had leaked through the ring fitting a bit and was, indeed, causing discomfort. With in a few days, my teeth were 100%….BUT, ear pain, facial pain and ear discomfort remained. I went to my dentist who said he's make me a mouthguard, but thought it would calm down. A few weeks later, I went to my DR who diagnosed me with TMJD and Occipital Neuralgia - prescribing prescription strength anti-imflammatories and a muscle relaxer. I felt no relief from either - just constantly drowsy and the burning headaches got worse. My husband started to notice I was "chomping" at night…probably a response to being in so much tooth pain from botched fillings for 3 months. I went to a Neuromuscular Dentist who specialized in TMJD, only to find she wanted to fit me for a $5,000 mouth guard. Her vague and generalized approach felt insincere and I did not go back. Another month went by with a trip to a trigger point massage therapist, a chiropractor, and to a great friend who is a dentist in another town. None of these brought relief. Finally, the dentist friend brought me a deprogrammer and suggested I wear it 24/7 for a few days. I have felt a little better, but the occipital headaches and ear ringing is still present. I'm still chomping at night. Though I'm very conscious of daytime clenching, I can't seem to get a grip on the nighttime chomping. Do you have any advice for me??

    I should say, I'm a healthy 31 year old. I love yoga, running, pilates, playing with my young children, cooking, and healthy living. Nothing has been as humbling as dealing with this incurable TMJD issue. Thank you so much for any guidance you can supply!

    Last edited by mod85; 11-26-2014 at 05:49 AM.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-24-2014, 07:00 PM   #5
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Did you ever have TMJ symptoms before you got the fillings done?

    How long ago was your last dental work before the 2 fillings?

    If before the fillings you didn't have any TMJ symptoms, it means the fillings are the cause of all this.

    How about your bite in general? Do you feel strange when you bite down or chew?

    When you open your mouth slowly, does your lower jaw move straight down or side to side? If it moves sideways, it's likely your jaw is currently misaligned as a result of the fillings not shaped properly.

    I assume you got white fillings? For the white filling, most dentists will use the free hand approarch--apply and harden the filling material on tooth surface and then have the patient bite down and grind it to adjust the shape. This has a lot of room for error and if they do more than 1 tooth at a time, it's really easy to screw up.

    Before I could offer anything more, I will need answers to those questions. So if you would answer them when you get a chance. Thanks.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-25-2014, 05:10 AM   #6
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    I never seemed to have any TMJD Symptoms before my fillings were done. I did wear braces for 4 years as a young child (rubber bands, palate expander, top/bottom braces). Before the 2 fillings, I had only seen my dentist every 6 months for cleanings for the past 2 years. Before that, I had a few fillings 5 years earlier.

    My bite feels very strange. When I went back to my dentist after the fillings (5 times) he filed the fillings, then he filed the left molars - the other side that he had not completed the dental work on. Right after the fillings my bite seemed fine, but slowly moved and felt out of whack (probably from clenching in pain for 3 months). After the fillings were redone, my teeth felt so great, but my bite continued to feel all whack.

    My jaw does move slightly to the side when I open and there is a grating sound on the left side (fillings were done on the right).

    Thank you so much for your advice. I just feel like I can't trust any professional and they all give me different answers. My GP wants to put me on anti-depressants - that is laughable considering I feel the farthest thing from depressed. She also thinks I need to manage my stress better, which is also laughable considering the only thing I feel that is stressful in my life is my Jaw discomfort.

    All my best!

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-25-2014, 09:30 AM   #7
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    OK, we can be pretty sure that the 2 fillings you got recently are the culprit then.

    How many fillings did you get 5 years earlier? Also white fillings? On what teeth and what side?

    You didn't develop any TMJ symptoms then but those fillings might not have been perfect either. They could have moved your jaw slightly out of the proper alignment but still not enough to cause all this. (Our muscles are somewhat forgiving but if it's too much they can't handle it and then you develop TMJD.)

    And unfortunately it happened just like I thought. The dentist filed teeth that are not involved to adjust your bite. This happens a lot and it happened to me too. Initially I was in discomfort but still able to function with no TMJD. After 3 of my good teeth were filed, it all went downhill. This practice really needs to be stopped.

    Back to the issue at hand, I'd suggest you do the following.

    - Sit or stand upright and smile at yourself broadly in the mirror. Don't close all the way. Keep your upper and lower teeth slightly apart (just like when you smile for a camera) and notice how your teeth line up, especially the midline.

    - Next, stop smiling and let your jaw relax while still keeping the upper and lower teeth slightly apart. See if the lower jaw slowly moves to 1 side out of the midline or not.

    - Ask someone whose bite is normal to do the same. Notice the result and compare to yours. (Please let me know also.)

    - Next, sit in a chair or sofa with head support. Lean back and look up and smile broadly again. Then slowly tilt your head forward and down (keep smiling broadly) so you can sit with your head upright like normal. While doing that, glide your lower front teeth gently against the back of your upper front teeth to let the front teeth do the work in closing your mouth and making all teeth come together all the way. Let me know if you feel any pressure spots and on what side and what teeth.

    Let stop here for now. I'd definitely love to hear about your results. Please let me know. Thanks.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-25-2014, 06:09 PM   #8
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpat08 View Post
    OK, we can be pretty sure that the 2 fillings you got recently are the culprit then.

    How many fillings did you get 5 years earlier? Also white fillings? On what teeth and what side?

    All white fillings and I'm not positive on teeth location - essentially, there was a tooth from each section of my mouth. Had to go in twice, once for the left and once for the right.

    You didn't develop any TMJ symptoms then but those fillings might not have been perfect either. They could have moved your jaw slightly out of the proper alignment but still not enough to cause all this. (Our muscles are somewhat forgiving but if it's too much they can't handle it and then you develop TMJD.)

    And unfortunately it happened just like I thought. The dentist filed teeth that are not involved to adjust your bite. This happens a lot and it happened to me too. Initially I was in discomfort but still able to function with no TMJD. After 3 of my good teeth were filed, it all went downhill. This practice really needs to be stopped.

    Back to the issue at hand, I'd suggest you do the following.

    - Sit or stand upright and smile at yourself broadly in the mirror. Don't close all the way. Keep your upper and lower teeth slightly apart (just like when you smile for a camera) and notice how your teeth line up, especially the midline.
    My bottom teeth are slightly off center (to the left).

    - Next, stop smiling and let your jaw relax while still keeping the upper and lower teeth slightly apart. See if the lower jaw slowly moves to 1 side out of the midline or not.
    The bottom jaw moves to the left of the midline when I open.

    - Ask someone whose bite is normal to do the same. Notice the result and compare to yours. (Please let me know also.)
    My husbands lines up perfectly, but his bottom teeth deviates to the right…not nearly as bad as my bottom deviates to the left. EEEK!

    - Next, sit in a chair or sofa with head support. Lean back and look up and smile broadly again. Then slowly tilt your head forward and down (keep smiling broadly) so you can sit with your head upright like normal. While doing that, glide your lower front teeth gently against the back of your upper front teeth to let the front teeth do the work in closing your mouth and making all teeth come together all the way. Let me know if you feel any pressure spots and on what side and what teeth.
    THe left side seems to hit before my right side (the right side was the side recently filled….the left side was not recently filled, but was filed by the dentist.

    Let stop here for now. I'd definitely love to hear about your results. Please let me know. Thanks.
    Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to help me. You have no idea how defeated I feel. I'm absolutely Dying to know if you have any suggestions about the type of care I should pursue next. I have a Chiropractic apt tomorrow and an acupuncture apt next week. I'm at a loss for which type of treatment to pursue and if this deprogrammer is crap. All my best and THANK YOU A MILLION TIMES OVER!

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-25-2014, 08:44 PM   #9
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Allied22,

    My pleasure and I definitely would be glad if I could be of some help to you or anyone who's going through the same thing. It's just unimaginable that this thing could happen from something seemingly so routine like getting crowns or fillings. But after what happened to me and researching on the Web, it definitely happens a lot. People like us are just unaccounted for and there's serious lack of oversight and accountability in the dental field. People who don't have this happened to them will not understand and will take the dentists' side and blame you for being too sensitive or crazy, even your family. And if you have a disease like cancer, at least you know how to get treatment and there's a clear way of treating it. TMJD on the other hand is not well studied and nobody knows exactly how to treat it. Dentists whose work is the primary cause of TMJD don't know either because if they did they wouldn't have caused it in the first place.

    Anyway, because your teeth were changed on both sides not so long ago (in my case I hadn't had any dental work in 20 years so I could use the wear and tear as a guide), it adds to the complexity. But if my theory is right, a person's normal bite is when they can smile broadly upright and their teeth come together nicely and comfortably. Look at pictures of smile makeover on the Web or your old photos where you smiled happily with no jaw muscle issues bothering you. That's why I asked you to smile broadly and notice how your teeth come together especially the midline and compare it to your midline when you stop smiling and relax your jaw. When your bite is not right from the tooth shape and contact points that are wrong, your jaw will reposition itself to avoid pressure spots and deviate from your natural midline. And one's natural midline doesn't have to line up in the middle perfectly. It depends. The important thing is to compare your midline when you smile and when you don't.

    When your husband opens his mouth, even though his lower jaw deviates to one side, does it move more steadily than yours? When your jaw is out of alignment, not only does it deviate side to side, its movement will also be shaky.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allied22 View Post
    THe left side seems to hit before my right side (the right side was the side recently filled….the left side was not recently filled, but was filed by the dentist.
    If you hadn't had any fillings done 5 years ago and your teeth on the left side were natural, the right side should hit first if the 2 fillings weren't in the proper shape. Normally, our back teeth should come together all at the same time with equal weight. In your case, the left side hits first. It could be some filling on the left was not shaped properly but your jaw muscles tolerated it until you also changed the right side. Do this step again and use your hands to feel your jaw muscles on both left and right. When you feel the left side hits first, do you feel your left jaw muscles clumping up and form like a hard ball? Ask your husband to do the same thing and feel his jaw muscles and see if his feel normal on both sides.

    Please let me know.

    Last edited by jpat08; 11-26-2014 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Changed from molars to back teeth

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-25-2014, 08:56 PM   #10
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Acupuncture is good and I recommend it. Physical therapy or massage somewhat helps relax the muscles so it wouldn't hurt. Neither however will have a long lasting effect because as long as your bite is not right and your jaw is out of alignment and forces your muscles to be stretched in an unnatural position at all times, your symptoms will come back soon.

    The only way to treat this is to get your bite back to your natural position by reshaping your fillings. Good thing is that you have a friend who's a dentist. The person may listen to you, unlike any dentists out there. The thing is that you should have a clear understanding of your bite and the problem yourself first. We'll talk more about this later.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 11-30-2014, 10:14 AM   #11
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    I'd like to add that please do not rush to find a dentist who claims to be an expert in occlusal equilibration to reshape your fillings or teeth.

    Most of the time, when they do occlusal equilibration they don't take into account your natural jaw alignment and vertical dimension (again, that's when your teeth come together comfortably when you smile upright). They'll just have you bite down on articulating paper, in a reclined position (because it's convenient for them as opposed to upright which is the position you normally function and chew), and determine heavy spots from the size and intensity of the color marks on your teeth. While it's true those are heavy biting spots, you have to bear in mind that you are biting in an unnatural position. Did you ever feel when you were in the dentist's chair having your fillings adjusted your bite felt okay but when you were back upright after a while it felt off again? And why do you think you got fillings done on the right but the dentist said it was your left side that was hitting hard and filed off teeth on the left instead? I got that happen to me too. I got a dental bridge put in on the upper right. First, they filed an opposing tooth, then the adjacent upper tooth, then the molar on the very end of the other side. Each time my jaw went further and further off to the other side and I started to have TMJ symptoms.

    While for some people, their bite in a reclined position may be close to when they're upright, yours may not be. In fact, people who get restoration work done and it seems their dentist can never get their bite right, the reason may be this. If it's just a filling, it may not be much of a factor. But when multiple teeth are involved, it could pose a problem. And when several teeth have been altered and your bite is off, it's especially important to get improper tooth contacts checked for upright, with you smiling to force your jaw to be in the appropriate alignment.

    I am an educated dental patient now because I was forced to be. And the more you know about what dentists do and what materials they use and how they perform procedures, the better you know what to look out for. I used to respect dentists the same as medical doctors but now I view them as construction contractors. Their work is more like that and their mindset is like that too. Once they agree on a price with you, they start looking at ways to use cheap materials to save costs and make the most money off of you. Before you agree to a procedure, they can say all the good things and give you all the promises. But once you got the procedure done and paid for it and things don't come out right, they don't take responsibility and try to push you off claiming their work with you is done. Just beware.

    Last edited by Administrator; 12-09-2014 at 03:21 PM.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 01-14-2015, 01:29 PM   #12
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Jpat08, I'd love to circle back with you now that I've seen another specialist and received a brain MRI….

    After 2 visits to a Oral/Facial Pain Specialist and a clear brain MRI, I've been referred to a physical therapist and given a cream to rub on my jaw (loaded with anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxers). He didn't want to put me in any type of splint, even though I asked, and was hesitant to even "diagnose" me as TMJ.

    I'm so frustrated I could scream. I need help navigating the type of care to pursue next. How do I find someone who is trained to give me relief?! I live in Charlotte, NC (a pretty big city)….you would think there would be someone trained to treat TMD. Can anyone suggest next steps?

    I've tried Trigger Point Massage…..No success. Acupunture brings a little decrease in discomfort. I gave Chiropractic and Applied Kinesiology a good try and it wasn't getting me anywhere. I've tried 2 types of muscle relaxers, a prescription anti-inflammatory, a deprogrammer mouthguard, a biofeedback headband, and essential oils. Boy, where to next?? All of this from 2 harmless fillings. I need my life back!!

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 01-15-2015, 05:48 PM   #13
    jpat08
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    jpat08's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2014
    Posts: 32
    jpat08 HB Userjpat08 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    TMJ disorder from dental work is generally muscular (jaw being out of alignment from incorrect bite and in turn pulling jaw muscles and other connected muscles out of natural positions causing pain) and doesn't really require MRI. And I would advise against letting any dentist manipulate your jaw position whether it be "upward and back" as in centric relation like in conventional dentistry or "forward and down" in neuromuscular dentistry. We were born with no teeth and our jaw has always been in its natural and appropriate position for us. Our bite may have been changed because of the jaw's adaptability to the shapes and contact points of whatever is inside our mouth, even at the expense of the jaw muscles. However, our jaw is still connected to the skull in the old position (probably except people who have suffered from bad bite and TMJD for way too long that the damage progressed to their jaw joints.)

    What I would suggest you try is get a moldable night guard from the supermarket or drugstore. Put it in hot water according to the instructions and bite. Then, the inside which is clear, pliable plastic will pop out a little bit. Just pull it out completely. Discard the hard plastic shell. Dip the clear plastic in the hot water again and let it cool a little bit and bite again. (Be sure to bite into the same spot.) This time smile while biting and then look up, look down, turn your head to the sides, then lie down and then on the sides, etc. Just do it like all the activities and postures that would affect normal jaw movement in our daily life. Then, let it fully harden and wear it and see if it helps. Our teeth have grooves and pits for a reason--to accommodate jaw movement during chewing, sleeping, reclining, etc. That is why I don't think flat plane splints prescribed by dentists are right--they don't have grooves and pits to accommodate jaw movement in our normal activities.

    I did buy 2 of those moldable night gaurds and tried that trick. I screwed up the first one but the second one came out okay. I wore it during the day and also at night and it was comfortable enough, unlike the flat, hard one I got from a TMJ specialist that got me worse.

    That's the best thing I could think of for now. Buy a set of 2 of those and bite one any way you like and the other one according to the steps I recommended in my earlier posts and see if either helps. Good luck.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 01-28-2015, 07:41 PM   #14
    Allied22
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2014
    Location: North Carolina
    Posts: 23
    Allied22 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Thank you again for the advice! I've been back to my dear dentist friend who has sent off a custom acrylic night guard for me to try. I should get it back soon. I tried your drugstore trick, twice, but failed both times. I'm hoping his custom made guard will bring some relief.

    I was hoping you could give me insight into how I find a qualified person to actually balance my bite and bring me perfect occlusion. I'm so confused at how to find the right care to fix my issues. Not only are the pain and discomfort of TMJ wearing on me, but the brain fog and phlegm stuck in my head/ears/throat are making me a very grouchy person.

    Again, thank you!

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 12-18-2016, 07:10 PM   #15
    Hopefulgurl1
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2016
    Posts: 70
    Hopefulgurl1 HB User
    Re: Success using Deprogrammer for tmj and headache relief?

    Jpat08 you are exactly right! I've been dealing with tmjd for 8 months now and I have always said, if the dentist fix what they messed up I won't need splints, mouth guards and all those other apparatuses because I didn't get this until they made some teeth too short, and sure enough when I had One tooth built up a lot of pain went away along with the tooth sensitivity. Unfortunately the dr who built the tooth up didn't make it long enough like it was originally and I still had symptoms but when I got the crown underneath it removed and had a temp it was better, but unfortunately again, they couldn't get the shape of the temp right so I struggled with some teeth pain but not so much jaw pain as before, never got headaches and my shoulder and neck pain got better, so I say all of this to say, this is true...if your tmjd started after dental work, it is the dental work that needs to be corrected. Also my night guard made me actually grind my teeth! I think people grind because the bite is off somewhere. Get the bite right you won't have tmj issues.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Reply Reply

    Tags
    head aches, tmj disorder



    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:37 PM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!