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    Old 09-10-2004, 11:35 AM   #16
    Gopherhead
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kime
    Do you know of any studies that have looked at actual incidence of high iron stores or CVD in persons taking high levels of vitamin C compared with people who do not?
    There are quite a few that are underway right now, as it happens. I did find that researches using data from the ongoing Framingham Heart Study discovered that participants who consumed more than three servings of fruit or fruit juice daily had a significantly higher risk of high iron stores, which the authors propose may be due to the enhancement of iron bioavailability from vitamin C and other organic acids in fruit.

    Dietary factors associated with the risk of high iron stores in the elderly Framingham Heart Study cohort. Fleming DJ, Tucker KL, Jacques PF, Dallal GE, Wilson PW, Wood RJ. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Dec;76(6):1375-84.

    Using vit C when eating meals fortified with iron is now an acceptable way to combat iron deficiency, it works so well.

    Twenty-eight strict vegetarians were given 500 mg ascorbic acid twice daily after lunch and dinner for two months. Hemoglobin and certain iron status parameters were measured before and after the treatment. Ascorbate treatment increased mean hemoglobin by 8%, serum iron by 17% and transferrin saturation by 23% and decreased total iron binding capacity by 7%. All these changes were statistically significant. The rise in serum ferritin was 12%. The serum protein or copper level did not indicate their dietary deficiency, while initial serum ascorbate level were low which rose by 60% on therapy. It is concluded that ascorbate supplementation is a better method of improving hematologic and iron status than iron salt administration.

    Correction of anemia and iron deficiency in vegetarians by administration of ascorbic acid. Sharma DC; Mathur R Indian J Physiol Pharmacol, 39: 4, 1995 Oct, 403-6
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    Last edited by Gopherhead; 09-10-2004 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Typos, what else?

     
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    Old 09-10-2004, 04:05 PM   #17
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Kime,

    I'm surprised that you have never heard of Vitamin C in the prevention of cardiovascular disease. This has actually been a known fact for over 50 years. There is tons of credible information about this link. Do a search for "Vitamin C and heart disease" and you'll see for yourself.

     
    Old 09-10-2004, 05:00 PM   #18
    Kime
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Nat,

    Following your line of reasoning makes it sounds like eating fruit is dangerous. Since it appears that for the vitamin C to increase absorption of the iron it has to actually have contact with the food in the digestive tract don't you think it would make more sense to say that the fruit and the vitamin C supplements should be taken on an empty stomach for people who wish to avoid increased iron absorption?

    Arizona,

    I believe you. It's just that I have never had a reason to research cardiovascular disease and what vitamins are good for prevention and so I am not well versed on that and sometimes when I happen upon something that relates I remember it, such as the vitamin E, and sometimes I don't. I take both the E and the C in any case.

     
    Old 09-10-2004, 07:56 PM   #19
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Kime,

    I also take both Vitamin C and Vitamin E. Do a search on the "Pauling Therapy" for the treatment of heart disease. I think you'll be very interested in what he has to say. The "Pauling Theory" is now 15 years old, and still it is being ignored by mainstream medicine. Why? What are they afraid of? The truth?

     
    Old 09-10-2004, 10:19 PM   #20
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Yes, I have been reading about it and it does interest me. As for why the medical community is so slow to accept new ideas according to Levy in his book on vitamin C the number one reason is that there is nothing that doctors fear more than ridicule from other doctors and so it is easier not to break away from the pack, so to speak, he didn't quite put it in those words but that is the basic idea. It's a matter of peer pressure.

     
    Old 09-11-2004, 04:11 AM   #21
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    You may be right about that. As Pauling himself once said:

    "Physicians just do what the medical authorities say to do. Of all the professions, the medical profession is the one in which the individual practitioners do the smallest amount of thinking for themselves."

     
    Old 09-11-2004, 07:45 AM   #22
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    It's sad to say, but one of the difficulties of not running with the pack is that you are much more likely to be singled out for the kill. For instance, if a doctor treats a patient with alternative treatment, who has sought him out after relapsing for the 3rd time with cancer because she is tired of using conventional treatment and wants to seek an alternative and she dies, he can be sued by her husband who claims that if she had taken the conventional treatment again she would have gone into remission again, but if she had taken the conventional treatment and died, no one could have been sued because they were following the accepted method of treatment. This exact case happened in real life even though the woman herself had made the decision to seek alternative treatment and the result was that the doctor had his license revoked. (The case caught my interest because the doctor was using the method of treatment that I would use myself if I ever got cancer, although I don't know if he was using it correctly or not.)

    Last edited by Kime; 09-11-2004 at 07:48 AM.

     
    Old 09-11-2004, 04:08 PM   #23
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    Yes, you've just made another excellent point. The truth is, it's not so much the doctors who are to blame, but the system. It's difficult for doctors to offer any medical alternatives to their patients as long as they've got a gun stuck in their backs.

     
    Old 09-11-2004, 04:24 PM   #24
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    BetsyAnn:

    I had an internist swear by Vioxx and even said it was a wonder drug. I recently had a terrible reaction to crestor - experiencing tremendous muscle pain, but because it came and went, the new Dr. didn't suspect the Crestor - so unbeknownst to him I was eating Vioxx, when I told him, he went nuts and said it could have killed me and minimally have caused irreversible kidney damage! I agree it is a very dangerous drug.

     
    Old 09-11-2004, 04:32 PM   #25
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    Re: The great vitamin C debate!

    I take 1-2000mg everyday and never get colds anymore.

     
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