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    Old 11-24-2003, 07:14 PM   #1
    giddyup715
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    Question Butter vs. margarine

    DO YOU KNOW... The difference between margarine and butter?

    Both have the same amount of calories.

    Butter is slightly higher in saturated fats at 8 grams compared to 5 grams.

    Eating margarine can increase heart disease in women by 53% over eating the same amount of butter, according to a recent Harvard Medical Study.

    Eating butter increases the absorption of many other nutrients in other foods.

    Butter has many nutritional benefits where margarine has a few only because they are added!

    Butter tastes much better than margarine and it can enhance the flavors of other foods.

    Butter has been around for centuries where margarine has been around for less than 100 years.

    ======================================== ===============

    And now, for Margarine...

    Very high in trans fatty acids...

    Triple risk of coronary heart disease..

    Increases total cholesterol and LDL (this is the bad cholesterol)

    Lowers HDL cholesterol, (the good cholesterol)

    Increases the risk of cancers by up to five fold...

    Lowers quality of breast milk ...

    Decreases immune response...

    Decreases insulin response.

    And here is the most disturbing fact....

    HERE IS THE PART THAT IS VERY INTERESTING!

    Margarine is but ONE MOLECULE away from being PLASTIC... This fact alone was enough to have me avoiding margarine for life and anything else that is hydrogenated (this means hydrogen is added, changing the molecular structure of the substance).

    YOU can try this yourself: purchase a tub of margarine and leave it in your garage or shaded area. Within a couple of days you will note a couple of things: no flies, not even those pesky fruit flies will go near it (that should tell you something) ... it does not rot or smell differently...because it has no nutritional value, nothing will grow on it...even those teeny weeny microorganisms will not a find a home to grow. Why? Because it is nearly plastic.

    Would you melt your Tupperware and spread that on your toast?

     
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    Old 11-24-2003, 09:05 PM   #2
    camden
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Are you sure it margarine increases the risk of heart disease? When I got the test results back from my doctor he said my cholestoral was very low and I made a comment about how I could keep putting butter on my popcorn(I use margarine but refer to it as butter) and he said "yeah you don't need margarine you can have butter." I took this to mean that since I had low cholerstoral, it was okay for my to be eating the greater of two evils(marg and butter).

    I do however agree that butter tastes much better, but since my husband does not care for it(and he eats it on way more things than I do) and butter is so much more expensive, I always by margarine.

     
    Old 11-24-2003, 09:14 PM   #3
    junkbondtrader
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Margarines which contain hydrogenated oils are said to be as bad and likely worse for you than butter because hydrogenated oil=trans fats, which it has recently been discovered are actually worse for you than saturated fats.

    BUT, there are alternatives to both of these which are better for you. Earth Balance makes a non-hydrogenated margarine which is also dairy-free (vegan), so it has no trans fat, low saturated fat, lower overall fat than butter, and no cholesterol. And it tastes good! Try it!

    Spectrum Naturals also has a similar product. It's about the same health-wise, but I personally don't like the taste as much.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 04:42 AM   #4
    girlygirly
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    I am assuming that earth balance is made from soy oil.(I tried to find the list of ingredients but couldn't find one on the net) If isn't made from soy oil please correct me. Soy oil is processed at a very high heat. One of the operative words here is processed. Soy oil is one step away from being a hydrogenated oil one of the only differences is that hydrogren is not being added to it. Soy oil as well as canola, cotton seed, and vegetable oil is a very unnatural, nonnutritious, unhealthy risk. Butter is made without being cooked at high temps,it has obvious nutritional benefits. Would you rather trust nutritional information from a multi billion dollar corporation's slick ad executives and marketing reps who have greedy motives, not your actual health care? Soy oils and soy protein isolate that is used in todays life are new to our diets, it should scare people that we are part of a big experiment. Have you noticed that soy is in almost everything? From food to makeup to shampoo to lotions? That is scary to me especially when soy is a photestrogen.

    As for me I will no longer be a part of any food experimentation. I eat butter and love it.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 09:06 AM   #5
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    soy might be relatively new to american diets in some (visible) ways, i.e. that tofu products and soymilk are now available all over the place, but if you're eating any processed or prepackaged foods at all, you're consuming it anyway; it's one of the most common food additives there is, and has been for a long long time. plus it is one of the oldests and most widely consumed foods around, globally speaking. it's been a staple in asian countries, for example, for hundreds and hundreds of years. also, asians consume virtually no dairy products and have a lower incidence of heart disease and cholesterol problems than we do.

    also, if you are concerned about phytoestrogens, which are thought to help us regulate hormone levels (and have not been shown, as some would believe, to cause an overproduction of estrogen), you are presumably concerned about hormones. what do you make of eating butter which comes from animals who are dosed full of hormones? cholesterol (in butter) is itself a hormone in fact. also, the main feed ingredient for dairy cows? you guessed it- soybeans. just stuff to think about.

    non-hydrogenated soy oil has not been shown to be dangerous. In fact, when you buy vegetable oil, which is used as cooking oil all over the place, what you're getting is soybean oil. So it's pretty much everywhere. Earth Balance uses a blend of cold-pressed oils (soy, canola, palm, and olive). These (expeller) oils are extracted without the use of any of the solvents typically used in the production of most edible oils, are not heated to high temperatures, and contain no genetically modified ingredients. no hydrgoen is added, no double bonds formed, so there is no trans-fat in the product.

    As to the question of whether I'd rather trust nutritional information from a multi billion dollar corporation's slick ad execs and marketing reps? Of course not, which is why I don't buy dairy products. The dairy industry has huge financial clout and is government subsidized/ protected, which leads to a huge amount of false information used to promote milk and other dairy products, which have been shown to be implicated in heart disease, high cholesterol, obesity, calcified organ deposits & stones, indigestion, acne, etc. Earth Balance is a small company, with no heavy marketing push that I have seen whatsoever, who just happen to make a healthy, tasty product which works for me.

    And yes, I am concerned with my own health, so when I got gallstones from too many dairy products, and found myself 90 pounds overweight, I stopped buying them. I'm a healthy weight now, with healthy cholesterol levels and I made no other changes in my diet or lifestyle other than giving up eggs and dairy (I had already been a vegetarian for 10 years).

    I'm not trying to say that the way I did it is the way everyone should, I'm just saying it really worked for me, and I'm mentioning it in case there are others who want to consider it as a possible switch.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by girlygirly
    I am assuming that earth balance is made from soy oil.(I tried to find the list of ingredients but couldn't find one on the net) If isn't made from soy oil please correct me. Soy oil is processed at a very high heat. One of the operative words here is processed. Soy oil is one step away from being a hydrogenated oil one of the only differences is that hydrogren is not being added to it. Soy oil as well as canola, cotton seed, and vegetable oil is a very unnatural, nonnutritious, unhealthy risk. Butter is made without being cooked at high temps,it has obvious nutritional benefits. Would you rather trust nutritional information from a multi billion dollar corporation's slick ad executives and marketing reps who have greedy motives, not your actual health care? Soy oils and soy protein isolate that is used in todays life are new to our diets, it should scare people that we are part of a big experiment. Have you noticed that soy is in almost everything? From food to makeup to shampoo to lotions? That is scary to me especially when soy is a photestrogen.

    As for me I will no longer be a part of any food experimentation. I eat butter and love it.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 09:14 AM   #6
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by girlygirly
    I am assuming that earth balance is made from soy oil.(I tried to find the list of ingredients but couldn't find one on the net) If isn't made from soy oil please correct me. Soy oil is processed at a very high heat. One of the operative words here is processed. Soy oil is one step away from being a hydrogenated oil one of the only differences is that hydrogren is not being added to it. Soy oil as well as canola, cotton seed, and vegetable oil is a very unnatural, nonnutritious, unhealthy risk. Butter is made without being cooked at high temps,it has obvious nutritional benefits. Would you rather trust nutritional information from a multi billion dollar corporation's slick ad executives and marketing reps who have greedy motives, not your actual health care? Soy oils and soy protein isolate that is used in todays life are new to our diets, it should scare people that we are part of a big experiment. Have you noticed that soy is in almost everything? From food to makeup to shampoo to lotions? That is scary to me especially when soy is a photestrogen.

    As for me I will no longer be a part of any food experimentation. I eat butter and love it.

    girlygirl I couldn't disagree more. Soy Protein has been shown to be very healthy, and infact it has been proven to reduce the risk of heart disease. Also Soy Milk is just as natural as Olive Oil or Olives, there is nothing wrong with drinking fresh home made Soy Milk.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 10:54 AM   #7
    girlygirly
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Where are the studies that aren't sponsored by the soybean council that show how wonderful soy is for humans? If soy is as natural as olives and olive oil then how come soy has to be processed at such high temps? soybeans contain oil that is inefficient to extract in a natural manner. Unrefined expeller-pressed soy oil is rather expensive so you will not find too many companies looking at producing this as it is very susciptible to oxidation and rancidity. I have yet to see cold-pressed soy oil. Cold-pressed and expeller pressed are two different processes.

    Almost any product that now lists vegetable oil as an ingredient contains refined soy oil. More than 80% of the oil used in commercial foods uses soy oil. Chemical solvents are used in most commerical brands to extract the oil. It is refined, bleached, and deodorized at temps over 400 degrees. BHA and BHT are also added. This oil lacks nutritients.

    Where are all of the Diary sponsored studies on soy that you seem to be talking about? I have not seen those studies, nor have I ever heard of those studies. I have heard of studies from experts on fats that are not associated with any dairy council , that say soy is not not an healthy alternative to butter. Or healthy period. The only soy that was used centuries ago was fermented soy. Fermented soy in moderation is the only soy that can be eaten safely. That is not the soy I am referring to.

    I eat organic butter, so I am not worried about hormones, but to agree with you, I find it totally outrageous that farmers are allowed to use antibiotics, hormones and to feed the animals unhealthy products to sell to unknowing consumers. Europe does not allow hormones and antibiotics. I eat organic meats,dairy, I buy raw milk from the local farm. I avoid anything with soy. I started having health problems from soy. How do I know it was from soy? When I stopped eating soy products my problems went away. My cholesterol is fabulous. It was last year when I ate soy products and used soy oils that my cholesterol levels weren't too good. I ate that Smart Balance, what a mistake that was. I don't understand why someone would want to eat fake food. It dumbfounds me.

    PS what it the recipe for soy milk, does it come from soybeans that have never been processed?

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 11:10 AM   #8
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by girlygirly
    Where are the studies that aren't sponsored by the soybean council that show how wonderful soy is for humans? If soy is as natural as olives and olive oil then how come soy has to be processed at such high temps? soybeans contain oil that is inefficient to extract in a natural manner. Unrefined expeller-pressed soy oil is rather expensive so you will not find too many companies looking at producing this as it is very susciptible to oxidation and rancidity. I have yet to see cold-pressed soy oil. Cold-pressed and expeller pressed are two different processes.

    Almost any product that now lists vegetable oil as an ingredient contains refined soy oil. More than 80% of the oil used in commercial foods uses soy oil. Chemical solvents are used in most commerical brands to extract the oil. It is refined, bleached, and deodorized at temps over 400 degrees. BHA and BHT are also added. This oil lacks nutritients.

    Where are all of the Diary sponsored studies on soy that you seem to be talking about? I have not seen those studies, nor have I ever heard of those studies. I have heard of studies from experts on fats that are not associated with any dairy council , that say soy is not not an healthy alternative to butter. Or healthy period. The only soy that was used centuries ago was fermented soy. Fermented soy in moderation is the only soy that can be eaten safely. That is not the soy I am referring to.

    I eat organic butter, so I am not worried about hormones, but to agree with you, I find it totally outrageous that farmers are allowed to use antibiotics, hormones and to feed the animals unhealthy products to sell to unknowing consumers. Europe does not allow hormones and antibiotics. I eat organic meats,dairy, I buy raw milk from the local farm. I avoid anything with soy. I started having health problems from soy. How do I know it was from soy? When I stopped eating soy products my problems went away. My cholesterol is fabulous. It was last year when I ate soy products and used soy oils that my cholesterol levels weren't too good. I ate that Smart Balance, what a mistake that was. I don't understand why someone would want to eat fake food. It dumbfounds me.

    PS what it the recipe for soy milk, does it come from soybeans that have never been processed?

    To make soy milk you take soy beens they can be freshed or dryed. I prefer organic beans. You soke them in water over night, then you place it in a blender add some water, mix it together with a blender. Boil this liquid for a few min, then you strain it. That is how you make soy milk. The beans are not processed before.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 11:13 AM   #9
    VTBoy916
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Also the AMA has already said that 25 grams of Soy protein a day has been proven to reduce the risk of heart disease. I have yet to see one legitimate study that says soy protein or soy beans are bad for you.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 07:01 PM   #10
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    In regards to the original 'butter v margarine' thread, unless you have a current medical problem, you can use either in moderation without any ill effects. Obviously if you tend to put butter or marg on everything you should be changing your habits or looking for an alternative. The bottom line is that both can be harmful if you have too much.

     
    Old 11-25-2003, 08:00 PM   #11
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Quote:
    Where are the studies that aren't sponsored by the soybean council that show how wonderful soy is for humans?
    as someone mentioned, the American Medical Association is pro-soy , advocating soy protein as part of a healthy diet.

    also, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 25th July 2002 issue has an article on soy's health benefits by Susan Aldridge, PhD, medical journalist.

    several studies have also been reported by the PCRM, and by many others.



    Quote:
    If soy is as natural as olives and olive oil then how come soy has to be processed at such high temps? soybeans contain oil that is inefficient to extract in a natural manner. Unrefined expeller-pressed soy oil is rather expensive so you will not find too many companies looking at producing this as it is very susciptible to oxidation and rancidity. I have yet to see cold-pressed soy oil. Cold-pressed and expeller pressed are two different processes.
    soybeans are as naturally present as are olives. they can be soaked and then cooked and eaten as-is, without any further processing. i don't see where you're getting this idea from that soy and soy foods are in any way patently "unnatural". what does that word mean to you?

    also, i'm aware that it is more expensive to extract soy oil without high temperatures and chemical solvents, and that not many companies insist on this. and also that expeller pressed and cold-pressed do not mean the same thing. but the product i mentioned, earth balance, does not use chemical solvents nor do they heat the oil to high temperatures in the process of making their "buttery spread".

    Quote:
    Almost any product that now lists vegetable oil as an ingredient contains refined soy oil. More than 80% of the oil used in commercial foods uses soy oil. Chemical solvents are used in most commerical brands to extract the oil. It is refined, bleached, and deodorized at temps over 400 degrees. BHA and BHT are also added. This oil lacks nutritients.
    i will not argue with this. These forms of soy oil, obviously, are less than ideal.
    the product i mentioned, however, is not processed in this way and should not be lumped into the same category is all i am saying. Nor do I see any reason to discount it out of hand just because it contains soy.

    Quote:
    I eat organic butter, so I am not worried about hormones, but to agree with you, I find it totally outrageous that farmers are allowed to use antibiotics, hormones and to feed the animals unhealthy products to sell to unknowing consumers. Europe does not allow hormones and antibiotics.
    Organic is a definitely a better way to go as you don't get the second hand growth hormones, but you still DO get hormones (cholesterol itself is a hormone) in dairy. If you're cool with that, that's fine. Europe is light years ahead agriculturally in a bunch of ways in addition to not allowing hormones and antibiotics. There are government incentives for farmers to go organic, and their animal welfare standards are much higher, since they have banned gestation crates for breeding sows, veal crates, and battery cages for egg laying hens.


    Quote:
    I eat organic meats,dairy, I buy raw milk from the local farm. I avoid anything with soy. I started having health problems from soy. How do I know it was from soy? When I stopped eating soy products my problems went away. My cholesterol is fabulous. It was last year when I ate soy products and used soy oils that my cholesterol levels weren't too good. I ate that Smart Balance, what a mistake that was.
    I'd be really careful with the raw milk. I've recently read a few local articles about people in my area who got sick from unpasteurized milk.
    Also, it sounds likely that you have a soy sensitivity, intolerance, or even an allergy. It is a relatively common allergen (as are dairy milks). If you tolerate butter better and prefer to use that, that's your business. I'm not trying to argue.


    Quote:
    I don't understand why someone would want to eat fake food. It dumbfounds me.
    again, i don't understand where your notion that soy products are "fake" or "unnatural" comes from. of course, the more processed any food, the less it resembles its original form, but you seem to be implying more than that, and i just don't see you backing up these claims.

    for the sake of debate, let's put the shoe on the other foot.
    try and think about it this way for a minute... how "natural" is it for you to consume dairy products? Would you get on all fours and suck milk from the udder of a lactating cow? We are the only species who drink animal milk after infancy, and the only one to drink the milk of another species, neither of which seem very "natural" to me. so how natural is it to make butter from the milk of an animal who is artificially inseminated repeatedly for the purpose of producing milk to be harvested and consumed by adult human beings?

    Last edited by junkbondtrader; 11-30-2003 at 03:48 PM.

     
    Old 11-28-2003, 02:29 PM   #12
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    I'm sorry but I've got to put in my 2-cents worth here. Our ancestors and most people on the non-North American continent have not/do not suffer from hi cholestrol problems or obesity. The most logical explanation that I've seen is that both groups-ancestral and other cultural-eat WAY MORE fewer processed foods than those of us in the good 'ole stop by McDonalds and grab-a-bite USA. Each of us has a genetic makeup that helps us either be less prone or more prone to heart disease, cholestrol problems, obesity, etc. I take offense to you saying that the dairy industry has megabucks to provide the public with unsubstansiated claims of health benefits. What health benefits does Coca-Cola provide? That company alone spends 4-times as much on marketing alone than the entire USA dairy industry spends. And then we have DR. Pepper, Pepsi, A&W, Anheiser-Busch, etc. Milk, butter, and cheese are for the most part processed to the point of providing a healthy product, i.e. pastuerization for killing of food-borne pathogens just as orange juice is. There aren't any additives to enhance shelf life, just as the same as for fresh veggies and fruit. Just because the dairy industry is doing it's homework to try to educate the public on health benefits is no reason to slam it. If you don't want to drink milk or eat eggs because of what you think is right for you, then that's perfectly okay. You've got the right to speak your peace. Go talk to your physician and see what he has to say about the benefits of dairy calcium versus coral reef calcium. I'm not a proponent of anything but less processed has to be better. I was having blood pressure problems and my doc suggested that I add 32 oz of low-fat or skim milk to my diet daily. Within 2 weeks my blood pressure was in the low normal ranges again. Recent studies have shown that teenaged females that do not take in enough dairy calcium, and it can be in the form of yogurt, ice cream/milk, cheese, milk, cottage cheeses, it really doesn't matter what form, tend to gain more weight when going through puberty than those females that take in at least 1600 mg of dairy calcium daily. Menopausal women that are at risk for osteoporosis gain more from fresh dairy calcium intake than women that take non-dairy supplements. If you can't tolerate dairy then that's one thing, but don't slam the entire dairy industry when you as an individual are having problems. Just state what works for you and leave it at that. Don't launch a campaign against an entire food group just because of your beliefs. Sorry for the tirade but you hit a nerve. Didn't mean to offend anyone, just wanted to state my opinion as well.

    Last edited by cowgal; 11-28-2003 at 02:34 PM.

     
    Old 11-29-2003, 10:38 AM   #13
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    People in the United States get enough calcium without having to drink milk. The real culprits in causing osteoperosis are lack of physical activity to strengthen bones and high protein consumption which degrades bones.

     
    Old 11-29-2003, 10:58 AM   #14
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cowgal
    Our ancestors and most people on the non-North American continent have not/do not suffer from hi cholestrol problems or obesity.
    Aside from the fact that we live longer than our "ancestors," they also ate far less than your average American. When it comes to food both quantity and quality matter. Americans eat too much quantity of too little quality.

     
    Old 11-29-2003, 11:33 AM   #15
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    Re: Butter vs. margarine

    cowgal, sorry i offended you. i'm not making any one else's choices for them, just bringing the knowledge i have to the table. if you choose to eat dairy products, that's fine with me. In any case, don't you think it is good to at least have both sides of the argument represented? Healthy debate is not a bad thing...


    Milk is the number one food allergen in children and adults according to the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. Up to half of the children in the US have some allergic reaction to milk, and a majority of African Americans and Asians cannot digest it well. Doctor Spock, for one, advocated total elimination of dairy from the diet. The dairy industry does have megabucks to promote milk, and does so (got billboards?) intensively as a necessary part of every diet. This is done despite the fact that milk (in addition to being linked with asthma, cramping, chronic ear infections, acne, type 1 juvenile-onset diabetes, obesity, and even osteoporosis and various other ailments) is the most common food allergen there is.

    The fact that coca-cola also spends millions on advertising is irrelevant here, as it's promotions never tout it as a health food, a vital part of every diet, a cure to osteoporosis, etc. the way that the dairy industry does. Ditto the other soda and beer companies you mentioned.

    Also, I have talked with my physician about dairy calcium versus non-dairy and he was fully supportive of my choice. I have also seen a nutritionist who is in full support of my choice and been fully checked out-- and my calcium and bone-density are fine. Cutting out dairy products was a well-researched, and carefully executed move for me, not a knee-jerk response or a whim, and it has worked out very well for me.

    You can decide what is right for you.

    Last edited by junkbondtrader; 11-29-2003 at 12:41 PM.

     
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