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    Old 03-29-2001, 02:19 PM   #16
    redfox
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    To Alan:

    I was curious-- what DO you eat in a given day? Those things you mentioned: bread, pasta, potatoes, etc. are basically what I subsist on. I wouldn't know where to begin if I cut all that stuff out, but I'm always willing to check things out. I'm not overweight-- I'm 5'6" and 125#. I am happiest at around 118# or so... but it's hard to lose when you're already a fairly normal weight. So I definitely would like to hear what you have to say about cutting all that stuff out. Thanks.

     
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    Old 03-29-2001, 06:28 PM   #17
    richardthelionhearted
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    TUP: I'm convinced. In fact, I've decided to take up smoking again as the "Men In Black" have been against it for decades.

     
    Old 03-29-2001, 09:59 PM   #18
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Redfox, you asked earlier what I eat since I don't eat bread, pasta, rice, etc. Well here is a few things:

    For breakfast I usally eat some type of eggs, 2-3, either fried, scrambled, or in an omelet with 2-4 pieces of suasage, bacon, ham, or a small steak on the side. In my omelets which I fix on the weekends usually, I put in browned suasage, sautéed onions, bell peppers, mushrooms, and cheddar cheese if I have all of these on hand (I usually do). And I never skip breakfast. For lunch, I usually eat some leftovers from the previous dinner or fix tuna or chicken salad or just make a big ol' green salad at work (no sweet dressings or crackers). If I'm on the road I may get a double cheeseburger with everything and toss one or both of the buns. Dinner involves some type of meat (beef, pork, chicken, turkey, fish, shrimp, or wild game) either grilled, pan fried, roasted, or slow cooked with one or two low-starch vegetables (green beans, steamed broccoli, cauliflower, squash, greens such as kale, collards, spinach, or turnips with bacon pieces and/or bacon grease in the pot for flavor) and/or a salad on the side. Snacks are usually nuts (almonds, walnuts, pecans, brazil nuts, macadamias, peanuts, etc.), sunflower seeds (I'm eating these as I type), pumpkin seeds, cheese, cold cuts, pork rinds, cream cheese w/Splenda, or raw vegetables and full-fat ranch dip, and sometimes low-sugar fruits like strawberries, blackberries, raspberries or blueberries. The fats that I use to cook with are lard, bacon grease, real butter, coconut oil, or extra-virgin olive oil. I usually drink water, decaf tea, coffee, or a few light beers on the weekend.

    Hope this helps.

    Alan

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 12:50 AM   #19
    Ariadne
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Now Alan I won't say anything about your diet - if it works for you (and so on) but good grief your arteries must be thanking you. All that saturated fat can't be good for them!! How's your cholesterol level? Better hope you have no history of heart disease or stroke in your family!!! <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif"> Saw your pikkies BTW. You do look healthy!

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 05:11 AM   #20
    pqlier
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    I'm gonna jump in here and bet that Alan's blood pressure and total cholesterol are normal, his LDL is low, his HDL is high and his triglycerides are low.

    Any takers, before he post his numbers and spoils the game?

    <p>[This message has been edited by pqlier (edited 03-30-2001).]

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 07:04 AM   #21
    Di
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Alan,

    By the way, if you don't mind the question...how old are you? Most people can eat like that in their 20's and early - mid 30's and still have no problems. Everyone I know ate like that when they were younger. Even I did! (ok, maybe not THAT much meat, but you get my meaning.) I used to be able to eat ANYTHING and had wonderful cholesterol numbers, was a size 8 and was healthy as a horse without any scheduled exercise. It was only when I hit my later 30's that I started having problems...which from what I've learned that is what the majority of people experience.

    So, eat, drink, be merry, but tomorrow (meaning your later 30's or so) you will more than likely pay for it. Hopefully not though!

    God Bless!

    Love, Di <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 07:40 AM   #22
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Di,

    I'm 35 years old. I know that I'm not going to convince you that low carb diets are healthy because you have your mind made up. I didn't used to eat this way. Only after learning the health benefits of a low carbohydrate diet did I switch to it 100% about 3 years ago. I eat the way I do first and foremost for the health benefits. Losing 40 or so pounds in the process didn't hurt either.

    Ok, regarding my cholesterol. pqlier wins the game. I can't find my last lab report from about one year ago, but I remember Total Cholesterol was 186. I can't remember the other values exactly, but everything was in the good range. I did happen to find the report from the previous year and it was TC: 198, HDL: 60, LDL: 124, Triglycerides: 70. Not what most would expect from the list of foods that I listed huh? And about 1 year ago I convinced my 68 year old mother to adopt my diet after she saw how good it worked for me, and her lab report from a month or so ago had total cholesterol at 174 and HDL was 65 or something in that range. Don't remember LDL and tries, but they were good also. Prior to this diet her cholesterol was over 200.

    It ain't the cholesterol and saturated fat in your diet that raises cholesterol and increases your risk of heart disease, but the sugars and refined carbohydrates and hydrogenated vegetable oils. The "heart healthy" diet recommend by our government and the so called health experts is a sham. It is based on economics, not science or biochemistry.

    I don't want to get into another dissertation on cholesterol. If you are interested in it, you can read some of my posts over on the High Cholesterol forum. I've also posted several interesting links over there.

    And I do have heart disease and diabetes in my family. That is why I'm on this diet (it's a way of life now). My grandfather died of a heart attack in his 70's, my grandmother had Type II diabetes, and my dad has had both carotid arteries cleaned/opened and quadruple bypass surgery about 10 years ago. He is now 76 and doing pretty good on this diet also. He is not as strict with it as mom and I and he still smokes, but he is doing good considering the damage he has done to his arteries from high insulin levels over the years.

    Alan

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 08:59 AM   #23
    tundra
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    I'm curious what you call that diet, Alan. From what I see, it's exactly what I ate when I was on the "Zone".
    I mean EXACTLY!! BTW-You (and your "Baby") look great in your photos. Glad you found something that works for you!

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 09:03 AM   #24
    tup
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Rich, You might find this interesting:
    <A HREF="http://www.williamfkoch.com/texts/lightup/LightUp.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.williamfkoch.com/texts/lightup/LightUp.htm</A>

    Cincinnati Post Article, July 23, 1946 Says It All!

    According to the National Cancer Institute there is “No experimental or clinical evidence which would indicate that tobacco smoke is a factor in the cause of cancer…”


    Hard to believe but that was once the view of the medical establishment's 'experts',the National Cancer Institute, no less! The point I'm trying to get across is that very often views that are held to be right are found through time and with research to be wrong. Even by the people and organizations who are supposed to know such as our esteemed 'experts' on health. I don't see anyone refuting the examples of past damaging mistakes I gave either.

    If anyone wants to believe these people are infallible then so be it. Most people don't question things, unfortunately, and have neither the time nor inclination to do so.

    I agree with Alan based on what I've found that our governments "heart healthy" diet is a sham and not conducive to good health but feel free to ignore all data that doesn't conform to the current, politically correct mind-set. Time will tell.

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 10:40 AM   #25
    babygirl
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Hi all,

    After reading all of the posts I have something to say. I have to agree with tup and Ariadne. You must do your own research and not listen to our government blindly. It is a fact that the Standard American Diet is pure garbage.

    The reason why we are so unhealthy these days is due to the increasingly less active lifestyle we lead and the over abundance of the availability to fast food and chemically processed food. First off, if you want to eat healthy you need to change your eating habits, eat organic food. I am talking about not eating processed food, anything with hydrogenated oils (which is almost everything), or fast food. The truth of the matter is that chemically processed foods or meats full of steroids and stuff is not good for you no matter what diet your trying to follow.

    Fact 1: mostly all foods contain hydrogenated oils, (i have an article on this i will get the url later). Hydrogenated oils are oils that are fused with hydrogen atoms that increase the shelf life and the volume of oil. This means manufacturers can produce more oil for a cheaper price and we pay for it with our health. The FDA has no intention of telling food manufacturers to stop making food with these oils because it would cost them too much money. The gov't knows this is bad for you. Why do you think so many people have developed cancer, diabetes and other ailments. It comes from eating garbage. It is a fact that foods with hydrogenated oils cause all sorts of health problems. Of course it takes years for these problems to develop so you won't see any problems right away.

    Fact 2: Our meat supply is full of steroid pumped cows, pigs, chicken and whatever else. It is a fact, Time magazine posted an article on the growing epidemic, kids developing at very early ages. You can probably get the article from their website (it came out late last year). Anyway, it is unhealthy to consume such things. Why doesn't the gov't do anything, b/c it's about money people, not about our health.
    Case in point, cows are vegetarians not meat eaters, but they are constantly fed remains of other animals, how do you think mad cow disease started. Because cows were being fed other animal remains.


    I actually could go on and on but I will keep this short for now.

    Basically what I am trying to say is that a lot of our problems could be solved if we start be eating foods that your body can appreciate. Eating meat isn't bad, it's eating meat that comes from animals that are pumped up with hormones. It's not bad to eat bread and pasta, it's bad to eat bread and pasta that is made with processed flour.
    It's not bad to eat sweets, it's bad to eat sweets made with artificial sweeteners and refined white sugar. Try things with honey or raw sugar or organic sugar.

    Try shopping at whole foods markets, you can still eat what you want without it being processed to the point of you getting sick and developing ailments and problems.

    Also, I changed my eating habits about a year ago and my cholestrol is down from 168 to 133, my blood sugar is good, and overall all my doctor said by me changing my eating habits, I have done my body some good. I used to get sick all the time, have stomach pains, headaches, etc. Once I changed, my body said thank you. I still eat bad once in a while but it takes time. I am a little overweight for my height but I that's my next challenge. 5'6" - 165lbs.

    Sorry so long.

    Babygirl <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 12:07 PM   #26
    richardthelionhearted
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Tup: I'm certainly not going to attempt to convince you. Obviously you've made your own judgements based upon the medical or whatever evidence that you choose. My point was that you cannot DISCREDIT someone simply because they are within the medical industry. Medical doctors (in general) have been advising their patients that smoking was bad for them since long before 1946, regardless of the "institute" you referred to. Doctors have been advising against High fat diets for more than 50 years now. Neither one of these is empirical evidence that either one of those of those things is bad for you, but to dismiss the concerns of a large portion of the healthcare industry based upon a "conspiracy theory", while embracing the contradictory beliefs of other members of the "medical" community is the worst sort of intellectual dishonesty. I'd bet good money if you get in a car accident you won't insist on not being taken to the hospital because the trauma team may be in on some sort of entrenched "medical mentality".

    If you are against modern medicine and healthcare, you should reject all medical doctors, not just the ones you disagree with. If you are not, you shouldn't use the "medical conspiracy" theory as evidence against traditional nutrition advice.

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 08:38 PM   #27
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by babygirl:
    <B>It's not bad to eat bread and pasta, it's bad to eat bread and pasta that is made with processed flour.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Huh? All flour is processed. Some more than others, but it's all processed, even the stone ground whole wheat. I will concede that whole wheat is better than white flour, but it is just the lesser of two evils.

    Alan


    <p>[This message has been edited by arkie6 (edited 03-31-2001).]

     
    Old 03-30-2001, 08:56 PM   #28
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tundra:
    <B>I'm curious what you call that diet, Alan. From what I see, it's exactly what I ate when I was on the "Zone".
    I mean EXACTLY!! BTW-You (and your "Baby") look great in your photos. Glad you found something that works for you!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks for the compliment :-) My "Baby" is a new Toyota "Tundra" BTW.

    My diet may resemble what you ate on the Zone, but the Zone recommends 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat. The Zone diet has too many carbs in it for me. Plus, it's a pain in the a** measuring and keeping track of all that stuff. My diet is easy. Just learn which foods to avoid and eat all you want of the rest. The diet that I eat is on the order of 10% carbs, 35% protein, and 55% fat.

    Alan

     
    Old 03-31-2001, 12:23 AM   #29
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    Alan,

    Thanks for posting the link to Ron Rosedale's article. It's a good read, and he's obviously convinced, but his evidence is pretty much anecdotal.

    Do you have links to well-conducted scientific studies on the effects of insulin and/or the safety or otherwise of high-fat (as opposed to high-protein) eating?

    Anything you can point me towards on optimal-nutrition, reduced-calorie eating would be good too. One of my goals is to live to 104.

    Thanks
    Stephen
    <p>[This message has been edited by pqlier (edited 03-31-2001).]

     
    Old 03-31-2001, 11:00 AM   #30
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    Re: Hazards of Low-Carb Diets

    I see nothing "intellectually dishonest" in searching for the truth on this or any matter. If it entails accepting some things and rejecting (discrediting) others then so be it. That's part of the process. It's not black and white but very gray and confusing so most choose the easy way and just take the word of the 'experts'. Far less mental stress!

    I'm not against medicine and healthcare if it's progressive and willing to study new ideas instead of immediately dismissing them as quackery. I never said there was a 'conspiracy' of willful witholding of knowledge but there is the entrenched mindset of all bureaucratic groups to resist change and to persist for too long with outmoded and wrong views. For ex. it took until the Surgeon Generals report in 1964, I believe, before our 'experts' concluded that smoking was harmful. I don't know where you get the idea that doctors were advising their patients against smoking long before 1946.

    I still haven't seen any studies showing the high protein/low carb diet to be harmful but have seen some showing it to be fine. This is the way humans ate for tens of thousands of years before the advent of agriculture. It's the recent addition of this along with highly refined carbs and sugar and, yes, the lack of exercise that's the cause of obesity, heart disease etc.

    To reject all medical doctors and care because I don't agree on several of their views would be this black/white simplistic thinking. Trauma care is certainly one area where the medical community excels.<p>[This message has been edited by tup (edited 03-31-2001).]

     
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