Discussions that mention benicar

High & Low Blood Pressure board


Anybody had hctz cause or aggravate edema?? Those of you that read my former post know I quit benicar in June and I've have been taking hawthorn since. Last Friday I ran out of my other bp drugs and could not get them because of car problem. Got them Sunday and didn't take them because edema in right foot and ankle had completely gone away for the first time since April, my breathing seemed more relaxed (no shortness of breath at all) and bp was fine, and bladder control back to normal. Monday bp was up a little so I took 1/2 my dose of hctz (which is 12.5 mg after cut in half). Within an hour I was dizzy and light headed. Two years of taking it that never happened. Light headed feeling left but an hour later my ankle started swelling and then my bp started rising ( 145/85). Then started running to the bathroom. Since about April, because of this stuff I've had a hard time controlling my bladder and urine in colorless and just continued to get worse but never felt dizzy, etc. I thought it might be related to the diabetes, but bs is down like it should be. In spite of this kidney function was fine when last checked so my dr acts as if lack of bladder control is in my head and I need hctz to take down edema anyway.

Tuesday morning I skipped that one and took my nifedipine. Have slight edema and bp is a little lower yesterday (wednesday). Running 130's/75-80. Now, the breathing is not like it was. At times I feel as if my asthma is kicking up a little. On the bright side, nutrients I'd ordered arrived while I was gone yesterday. I took 3 fish oils, l-arginine, folic acid, magnesium and an hour later pressure had dropped 15 points - 116/65.

I have another question and some of you might know. I came across an old article regarding magnesium. It said calcium and magnesium don't work together and to take them at different times. (Never heard that) My last blood test shows calcium just under high normal and mag just over low normal. I've been taking extra magnesium since last winter, and this is the lowest mag has ever been. I've been taking it altogether, until last night. I was taking high dose of metformin as that caused diahrea, and I'm thinking between that and hctz a lot of my nutrients were going in the sewer. OR, maybe I should take calcium without magnesium. Would welcome any thoughts or experiences anybody has had on any of this. Thanks.
[QUOTE=boots4me;3206798]Anybody had hctz cause or aggravate edema??

I am not aware of hctz causing swelling of the feet and ankles. However, I am aware that swelling of the feet and ankles can be a very serious side effect of blood pressure medications and can occur when hctz is combo'd with other bp medications (the meds may stay in your body for days/weeks even if you haven't taken them for awhile). So yes, hct can aggravate edema.

Given the seriousness of this side effect, I would certainly check with your pharmacist, and with your doctor again. I would encourage a call to your pharmacist as your doctor doesn't seem to be on top of things (yes, bladder control issues occur when taking a diuretic and this is pretty common knowledge (check your your "women's beauty/housekeeping/relationship magazines) if you don't believe me.

I, too, had breathing problems on hctz, and other medications as well. I can specifically attribute the breathing problems to hctz because I would get coughing fits and everytime I did, I'd empty my bladder resulting in changing my clothes 4 times a day and numerous loads of wash (no wonder I never got anything done!). The bladder problems cleared up IMMEDIATELY after discontinuing hctz and I didn't experience them on other meds (except benicar/hct).

Dizzy and light headed may mean that your bp was too low but it may mean other things. [QUOTE] In spite of this kidney function was fine when last checked so my dr acts as if lack of bladder control is in my head and I need hctz to take down edema anyway. The bladder control problem I would be willing to bet is strictly the hctz. Sounds like you are diabetic? If that is the case, hctz may not be a good med for you to take as it can elevate bs (and mask it, too?). I would encourage you to talk with your pharmacist, again, because your doctor may have overlooked a few things here.

[QUOTE]... I came across an old article regarding magnesium. It said calcium and magnesium don't work together and to take them at different times.... I thought this was true but after reading fg's post I had better check...but it seems to me my nurse friends told me to stagger my supplements because they tend to cancel out each other when taken together.

[QUOTE]... My last blood test shows calcium just under high normal and mag just over low normal. I've been taking extra magnesium since last winter, and this is the lowest mag has ever been. .... and I'm thinking between that and hctz a lot of my nutrients were going in the sewer....

Based on my personal experience, your symptoms, and the common med (hct) I would support that sewer theory. My opinion is to do away with the hct...it would be interesting to see if your bp stayed at a reasonable level without it.

Do read your package insert for hctz. Doctors have prescribed this med like crazy (it's old, it's cheap, and it's been around for years) but I found that aside from the suicidal thoughts and falls on my face I experienced with atenolol, I experienced the worst side effects on this med.

Bethsheba
Thanks for responding. I should have answered last night but I'm clearing out my mother's house to sell it and it was late. I appreciate your input.

First, I blame the hctz for the edema and maybe the shortness of breath that came with it. As for my asthma, I don't take anything for it. I got that under control over 20 years ago with herbs. It was due to allergies and a dr that wouldn't recognize as such. I got chickenpox at age 32 and they started up. It started as sinus and ears plugged, everything got worse while he insisted on trying more and more powerful anti-biotics and finally got to where I had bull-blown asthma symptoms. I had blue cross and needed a referal to see a specialist and was sick 8-9 mos of the year. I went to an herbalist that helped a friend with asthma. She treated the problems & I'd recover quickly in 2 or 3 weeks. The third time I had it and went to her was the last time I had bronchitis (Until 3 yrs later) I learned how to use the herbs, did juice fasting three times for three weeks and eventually built myself up so everything went away. (and quit the dr) Three years later I got the flu and the bronchial thing came back, had good ins and went to an allergist. Was allergic to 40% of what I was tested for. I had allergic reaction to one of his drugs so I went to my herbs. Three weeks later I was over it and he said he was positive I had asthma and was amazed as bad as I was that I could control it with herbs and said I would be better off if I never had to resort to the drugs. He said the original drs mis-diagnosis and not treating it properly when it started was the cause of it all.

I learned with the juicing that I have all kinds of sensitivities and learned to really pay attention to my body and anything that seems different I can usually pinpoint. To be sure, I wait and try it again (usually it's a food), if same thing happens I eliminate it. The first dr gave me keflex for a mild kidney infection I didn't even know I had, and my kidneys shut down. I had visions of being hospitalized and winding up on a kidney machine with him in charge. That experience scared me so much I didn't set foot in a drs office (except the allergist) for 20 years. Fortunately I was healthy.

My blood pressure hovered around borderline for a long time. Then the glucose showed a little high on annual health fair blood test so I broke down and went to a dr 5 years ago. He was worse than the first. He never addressed the glucose. Just told me to watch my diet, and don't take anything but a daily multiple vitamin. That messed things up and I had a blood vessel break in my eye.

Next dr was fine for awhile. A1c was 7.2 to start, got it to 5.7 in 7 months, diet only, and lost 30 lbs. I was on cozarr (12.5mg a day). My bp was higher in his office than at home - proved it to him, but he doubled cozarr - bs went up and so did bp and he doubled it again. After 4 mos heart pounded short while after taking it and heart rate sped up - to 100 - lasted about 2 1/2 yrs til I quit benicar in June when it dropped to normal. (Both drugs cause this in 5% of patients I believe I read- and benicar can raise triglicerides and mine jumped up)

Two years ago I went to a to clinic connected to hosp where I worked for 24 yrs. Bp was pretty high and it's been one drug after another, mainly to slow down the heart rate. Got a lung function test and blood oxygen was 93 and it should be 95 so I have a concentrator. Many times without using it my level is 95. I don't use it all the time and it's rare for me to feel like I'm not getting enough oxygen. As for metformin, I've taken it well over a year. I took 250 mg 2x a day and a1c went from 7.2 to 6.2. They doubled it and it went up to 6.8, so they doubled it again to 2000. (Do you think less-is-more? I do.) After awhile the diahrea started. (This happens in 51% of patients) They told me to quit it for a week to see if it goes away. It did, but they said to take it anyway. Now even 1000 causes diahrea. I've been taking 500 for over a month, but bs is much easier to control without benicar. I was having the diahrea when I had my last blood test that showed things out of whack. I also take glipizide which causes weight gain, and I need to lose. You can't win. I hate having to be on these drugs. Tiny dose of cozarr was fine, I was losing weight without half trying. Increasing it messed everything up. I had slight edema on diazide that I'd taken for 3 yrs and they switched me to hctz and it got worse.

Flowergirl. I came across a clinical trial involving edema caused by ace inhibitors and nifedipine. They used phynogenol (french maratime pine bark) to take down edema and the result was that it was quite successful and was determined that it was quite safe had no side effects. They administered 50mg 3x a day. And, it also helped take down the blood pressure. Perhaps it would help edema caused by other ccb drugs as well. I think I'll try it. Anything to get rid of the edema, and lower the bp a little more. I can't imagine being on 5 bp drugs and going through what you must go through.

Bethsheba. The old article on calcium and magnesium said calcium drives out mag. I think it also said that mag does not stay in the blood long unlike some other minerals. I see plenty of tablets that are cal only or with vit D. Maybe they've always been there and I didn't notice. I always took cal, mag & zinc then started coral calcium with all the nutrients, but I'm ready to switch back to multiple vit and cal,mag & zinc or something. I was taking the extra mag this last year because of the diabetes and it helped lower the pb and was shocked when blood test showed it was lower than last year.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.
Hello Ladies,

Here we go. It's a long one again. I've been doing a lot of research on the internet and checking out some of the other health blogs. It's incredable the problems people have with these hbp drugs. I found one where 6 women complained of their hair falling out within a few months of taking benicar, & a number of people had kidney stones. I had a stone 3 yrs ago while on cozarr. My latest blood test from the health fair shows the past three years. The things that were too high (like calcium, uric acid, triglicerieds) or too low (like iron) occurred while on cozarr & benicar. Last year while on something else, those were okay. Those two drugs do a lot more than just lower blood pressure - like screw up your health in general, at least for some people. As for package inserts, I don't get those. Just get the generic printouts the pharmacy puts out that all pretty much say the same thing.

I've lost about 10 lbs, and my blood pressure is up and down. Sometimes 145/90, or 120/70. and numbers in between. The edema isn't much of an issue now. I took black radish & parsley caps. For awhile I was running to the bathroom as much as with hctz but the edema was still there. I started taking pantothenic acid and that seemed to work better. At least I can see my ankle bone in the morning. I'm only taking b r & p once a day now. The weather is cooling so that helps. At least I don't look puffy in places and dehydrated in others. Towards the last, I was getting up 3 or 4 times at night to go the bathroom while on hctz, and the reaction I had to that, was an allergic reaction from what I've been able to find. I doubt I'll ever be able to take it again.

The blood sugar is much easier to control now. I've even had readings of 107 & 105 in the morning sometimes, and that's a first for me. It's always high in the morning. I quit taking 2000 of met. I'm taking 500 mg now. It's hard to believe benicar made so much difference.

I've stopped smoking twice for two days, and the bp dropped like a ton of bricks, and when I went back to it again it was higher than before so I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and quit. I have a stop smoking chinese formula that's worked very well for me in the past, but it doesn't work while on any of the bp meds. It basically calms and relaxes a person so you don't even think about smoking and gradually you wean yourself off smoking and no stress - so there's something in bp meds that causes tension or blocks a pathway or something. That's pobably why they mess up everything. I quit once for a month, but my mother's dementia problems got to me, so I had to smoke again. That was before bp meds. I've ordered a subliminal cd. Maybe if my concious mind can't handle it, my sub-concious mind will. I just have too many things going on in my life right now to relax much. I suspect even if I quit I'll still have to take something for bp so I'm looking for alternatives.

Bethsheba, You could be right about sleep apnea. My dr mentioned it once but hasn't said anything about admitting me to check it out. Years ago while working 10-12 hrs a day and under a lot of pressure, I'd wake up at night with the feeling my heart had stopped. I took hi-stress B's and it went away. As for the weight problem, it really wasn't much of a problem until I had my gall bladder out at 31. I was given codeine with tylenol for pain (stones) before surgery. I gained 7 lbs in the hospital on pain med. I continued to take the pain med for about 3 weeks after. Altogether I gained about 25 lbs while taking it and losing weight has been a nightmare ever since. Of course, I got chicken pox shortly after the surgery and then the allergies flared up. I think stress of surgery (and new job), and illness had a lot to do with it - drains the nutrients and then not getting proper treatment by the dr made it all worse.

I did the juicing (carrots & apples) to test for foods I was allergic to. Long 3 week juice fasts clears the toxins as well as add nutrients. I had blood tests before and after and the "after" tests were better than the first, and I wasn't taking vitamins while doing it. I dropped 50 lbs both times and kept most of it off until I ate meat. Afterwards, new growth of gray hair came in the natural color and wrinkles and lines faded. At 50 I looked 40 and felt like 35. Even at 60 I had fewer wrinkles and less gray hair than some 40 yr olds, but that all went away with the hpb meds. Now I look like h--- but I'm going to reverse that if I can. I need to start juicing again on a regular basis. Whenever my cholesterol or triglicerides are high, I juice 6,7 carrots a day and it drops. If either of you are on statins try this and maybe you can get off them. I once lowered my HDL 28 pts and triglicerides almost 50 in three weeks. When I went to cardioligist for echo cardiogram I told him how fast it had gone down and he asked if I was on lipitor and said, "No. I'm on carrot juice." Where there's a will there's a way. All you have to do is find the way. The first dr that saw it flipped and demanded to know what I was doing because nothing but statins will do that. The second and now the third dr suggested statins and they've seen chol & trig go down with juicing carrots, so they don't talk about statins because I won't take them.

As for the calcium and mag question. I don't think I'll worry about it. I just bought a big bottle of cal, mag, zinc & D, but I'm going to take boron with it.
Maybe at some later date I'll take K-1 or K-2.

I did find a dr website that said virtually every presc med drives at least one nutrient out and some up to five. Diabetes drugs drive out COQ10, beta-blockers drive out COQ10, thiazides drive out mag, pot & zinc, other diuretics drive out COQ10 & folic acid, aspirin drives out 4. It didn't mention other hbp drugs. Another dr website said that nearly everyone in this country is deficient in mag, and the labs base their guidelines on averages. It said that if numbers show on the low side that person is already deficient in mag and needs to supplement. He said when you supplement you only absorb 1/4 of amt shown on bottle, and to test for tolerence like vit C.

Flowergirl, Did I read on one of these posts that you have a sore thumb and need to drink more water? Do you think it rhumatoid arthritis? (I guess that's the one that causes pain & swelling). I had that on my knuckle on my thumb a long time ago. I called the herbalist and she said to take pantothenic acid at night before I go to bed and it worked right away. I still have a knob, but it's only flared up twice. It's also very good for gout or for any other type of inflammation in the feet for some reason. I have a neighbor that has gout so bad she can hardly walk. I gave her 4 tablets. Two days after she ran out she was calling to find out where to get it. That's why I tried it for the edema - and it worked better than the parsley. I've never been able to find out why, but it's helped people I've recommended it to that had a lot of pain from arthritis in a foot from an old injury (when celebrex didn't work) and gout. In two days it eliminated swelling my mother had when she had a hairline fracture in her foot.

Did you find the trial on pycnogenol? It was 7 pages long and was done in Italy. I found an excerpt on another one done before that using 100 mg 3 X a day. That one said it was taken with amylase & lipase. Found another site that said if you take it with enzimes it will be absorbed in 30 min and stays in the system 3 days. It restores capillary integrity, restores collegen and improves circulation which may help persons with edema. I've read up on benfotiamine and I've ordered some of that. That's supposed to restore collegen & help capillaries in the eyes & kidneys especially in diabetics. I've read a few places that you can overdose on anti-oxidants. I'm going to check out a dr website and find out about that before I start taking too much stuff.

I am seriously considering C-12 peptide for blood pressure. Krill oil is supposed to raise HDL a lot, and lower trig so I may try that sometime. My HDL is okay but it could be higher. I found a natural hbp concoction. It's Chinese holly leaf, hawthorn and some other thing. It claims to have worked on 80% of people that have taken it and is guaranteed to lower blood pressure within 5 weeks or less, and is not terribly expensive like most are. If C12 peptide doesn't work I may just try it. I'm sick and tired of side effects and adverse reactions. The web site I found on pcynogenol shows studies on all kinds of herbs and says the things in this natural hpb thing are non-toxic. It shows excerpts on close to 200 trials & studies done on hawthorn, and about 200 done on pcynogenol. So anybody that thinks there have never been double-blind trials on herbs just hasn't looked in the right place.
You just have to be careful where you get them.

Another thing about edema - a co-worker went to the herbalist and talked to a mother that had her 9 yr old daughter with her and the girl was quite heavy. Drs said she had dropsy and no cure. The herbalist said she did not, & to have her eat 4 to 5 apples a day on an empty stomach and she started to get rid of that water. Later she said she could take apple pectin in place of some of the apples and continued to lose more water weight.

The herbalist wasn't just a common herbalist. She was the most amazing person I've ever met. She wrote books, lectured across the country and helped thousands with health problems the drs either couldn't diagnose or have an answer for, except maybe surgery. Some say she was psychic. Many went to her as a last resort and were helped. A friend had a floating kidney and 3 drs said she had to have a metal plate put in. She went to the herbalist and was given black radish & parsley and something else. Three months later she went back to one of the drs and he said she was fine. This is just the top of the iceberg. She came from Gemany and worked with a dr there. Some of her "cures" were nothing short of miraculous. It's too bad so few of our drs know little about herbs and the rest discourage people from taking them. I think a lot has been lost, thanks to the drug companies and the guardians of our health - the FDA and the AMA. After the experience I've had, herbs don't scare me but the drugs do. The trick is finding what works.

If either of you want to know what helped my asthma and any sign of sinus problems or runny nose, I take Yarrow tea. If that doesn't work I take Linden flower tea. One morning last spring I woke up with a sore throat (first one in over 15 years) and sinuses all filled up. I drank a cup of yarrow tea and in an hour it was all gone. It has a medicine taste but not too bad. For me it acts like an anti-histamine and also has antibiotic properties. I've met people from various countries that know of both teas and how well they work. If you already have a problem going on it takes longer, but it helps. I quit taking sudafed and all the others when they said they'll cause stroke and they never worked as well anyway. I don't know if yarrow raises blood pressure. It may a little. Linden I'm sure is safe and another that is safe is Elderflower tea. The herbalist said that was one of the best all-round teas you could drink. Actually what she gave me the last time for bronchitis was nothing more than willow leaves, cinnamon, thyme and milk sugar. The last time I went to dr for it after 2 weeks of anti-biotics, according to xray I was on the verge of bronchial pneumonia and he prescribed keflex which I'd had an allergic reaction to, so I took what she gave me and within 1/2 hr I started coughing and I won't go into detail about what I coughed up, but I could breathe afterwards and in less than a week I was well - and the dr believed he had finally found what it takes to cure me. She said if I drank a cup of willow leaf tea a week, I would never have the sinus, bronchial or asthma attacks again. I don't do it because it's hard to find, but I do keep her formula on hand just in case. All I know is, it took down the swelling in my broncials. This is what I took when I went to the allergist when I got sick with the flu 3 years later and couldn't tolerate his drugs.

I hope I've given you two some ideas that might help you. As for the teas, you can get enough for 8 to 10 cups for less than $2.00. And fresh carrot juice or any other fresh juice wouldn't hurt a thing. That also helped my allergies. I have a permanent loss of hearing in one ear because of my ears being plugged all the time and the dr not helping that. I can drink carrot juice and many times my ears will pop while drinking it. Just taking nifidepine now my ears pop open when I get up in the morning, so it's doing something it shouldn't.

Bye for now.

Boots