Discussions that mention elocon

Bowel Disorders board


Janetto, thanks for the info. Don't know if I can use lactulose since my endo said I am "pre-diabetic" whatever that means. I tested carbohydrate intolerant; carbs make my sugars go wacky. I'll check with my general doctor this Monday.

Ouch with your butt pain! I don't know about the laser. I did a lot of reading on this procedure, and all the places I read said there was no difference in the pain with the laser or the traditional. After all, pain is pain afterwards. You don't feel the procedure while it is being done, as you are out with anethesia. However, all the surgeons advertisements that did laser all claim laser is not as painful. After what I've been through, I doubt their ad claims.

You should eat your bran for sure after you have the procedure, but try having some Gas-X as this will help with the gas a lot. You can get gas-x over the counter---it contains simethecone (sp?) which cuts down gas. Gas-X saved my butt hole during the 1st 3 weeks after the surgery.

I'm doing better today. I saw a few days ago, that I had 2 abscesses on the outside of my anus in the surgery line, and those were the sources of many of my problems. I put some elocon cream, a steroid cream for skin problems, on them, and the abscesses have gone down a bit. I also had a point that was open and bleeding, and I had success putting on gotu kola, a herb known for treating wounds. I dabbed the herb on and in 4 days it was closed. I'm sharing this with you because those 2 things, the abscesses and unhealing wound, were dragging on my healing. My surgeon didn't offer any help, only that I wait it out for 2-4 months (yeah, right).

Thanks for your support, Janetto. Let us know if you get brave, and do it. :)
Listen, Walt, if that new swelling doesn't go down in 5 days, I have a new trick for that problem. I had two painful swollen mounds on the outside that weren't getting any better. They weren't open, just swollen and very tender to the touch. I applied to that once at bedtime a prescription cream called Elocon. Elocon is a kind of steriod, which is made for inflammatory skin conditions. I used it for 4 days, and it helped to reduce the inflammation tremendously, however, the inside gotu kola defeated the internal inflammation that was at the root of those two swellings.

So, you might want to try Elocon cream in 5 days, if the swelling isn't down. You will have to get a prescription for it. I had this on hand for other skin conditions. I don't know if your surgeon would comply as many aren't hip with alternative applications of medicines, but you might get your general doctor to give you a tube.

Elocon cream is a steriod and I wouldn't recommend using it more than 4-5 days, as more than a week's use can do the reverse and hinder healing, but less can work marvels. There is hope, Walt, for every ailment that is currently besetting you.
Tammy,

Wondering where you are? Board has been awful quite lately. Maybe everyone is doing much better. Hopefully not the opposite.

My cut which had been closing has once again opened. How frustrating :(.

I did see my GP yesterday and have the Elocon cream. Haven't used it yet but been keeping up with the gota kola 3-4 times/day and before bedtime. I'm wondering if I should try the cream because this swelling, while better, is still getting me down. Should I first apply the gota kola and then in a little bit apply some cream before bedtime? Would the Elocon cream get better results than the Analpram in your opinion?
Hi, Walt. Sorry about your setback. When I had my cut, it reopened about 3-4 times after about one week each of being closed. For me I noticed that stools too firm would reopen it, and there was nothing I could do but start reapplying the gotu kola to the new one and rego through the healing process. I would also make sure to put on a glob of vaseline right before sitting on the toilet to go (and I still do), as this would help sometimes to protect the healing cut. But, sometimes, the damn thing would reopen any ways. However, eventually it did heal, so don't give up.

Again, I don't know if you still have that Vicryl suture inside and if it is in anyway tied to that cut. I have to tell you that you can have some of the suture grown over and not visible to the eye. Even if you did,over time that problem would go away but the cut might persist in being stubborn to close until that suture is totally out of there.

Also, I found that even sitting in anyway that rubbed that area could open the cut, so you have to just be conscious of avoiding sitting in any way that might damage the cut, and sometimes have to go through a setback.

Elocon cream is not made to be put over open wounds; read the insert and you will see that. In fact it is a steroid which can sometime impair the healing of wounds. As I wrote before, I would not use this cream for more than 4 days in a row, and then you only use it once a day, period, in a small amount.

If you want to put some of the Elocon cream on that part that is swollen, do so, but in a small amount and don't get any on the cut directly. And quit after 4 days, even if the swelling is not totally gone.

You can then try again in another couple of weeks for 4 days, but, even when you do stop, the initial application does still cause some reduction to go on for a few days after.

I haven't posted because I've had to buckle down to work, so much so that I had to cancel my 2nd followup exam with my surgeon that was supposed to be this morning. I rescheduled in 2 weeks, but I am happy to say that I am greatly better than I was a month ago, though not 100%. Just 2 days ago I had a stool too firm that caused my scar area to bleed a bit, but now that is totally gone. I understand these setbacks can continue on for several months.

Now, mind you, Walt, I am in no way okay with ongoing setbacks that can last for months, I've just learned to accept this problem, but happy? No. I've just come to accept you can't fight the City Hall of Hemorrhoidectomy Healing. :)

ps. I tried posting this reply a couple of times and got an error message. I hope it didn't appear more than once.
Tammy,

I'm reassured it was only work keeping you away. I can understand that all too well. I'm so glad you are feeling better.


Yes, I realize this setbacks come and go. I was just so encouraged I did not bleed in 3 days. I noticed a little more burning and itching last night and today my cut reopened. I had a little blood on my wipe. My BM was not as good either -- a little to firm for my taste. The running around yesterday probably upset my schedule. It could of been all the moving around going to the doctors. I've learned to wet my tissue at my BMs and that's been helping to not aggravate the cut. I just don't know how many more setbacks my mind can tolerate before I say enough is enough. My swelling is bothering me more today too. I gotta believe you are right about my sutures. Something is sure tugging inside me ...

I'm going to continue using the gota kola and stay away from the Elocon cream for now. If things get desperate over the weekend I might try analpram again.

Hopefully, you can sneak away from work this weekend and stay in touch. I look forward to your words of encouragement.

[This message has been edited by wjpjr (edited 10-03-2003).]
Walt, sorry your butt is on fire. Have you been putting a glob of vaseline on your butt hole right before having a bm? This helps a lot to cut down on burning.

Here is how I saved my butt from burning in-between stools. Runninggal told me about this life-saving ointment called calmoseptine ointment. It is made specifically for anal discharge and recovery. You owe it to yourself to get a tube and then inbetween stools just smear a line on either side of your butt hole, and it will greatly help relieve that burning.

Maybe you do have a fissure on top as you suspect. Make an appointment with another surgeon to look just at that, and see if it is a fissure. It wouldn't hurt to try some of that nifedipine ointment. In just a day it is giving me relief.

I advise you to show up at work, as new bosses can be trouble. Take along vaseline, calmoseptine, cotton balls, etcetera.

Listen, why don't you try some elocon cream on that sore spot for the next 4 days, one application only right before bed? It might help you. I had a sore itching spot right outside my rectum last night that looked like the start of an abscess, and I dabbed some elocon on right before bed and come the morning it was healed.

Getting over this is all about hit and miss and keep on trying. I know it seems impossible to fathom, but having your troubles at 8 weeks is normal, I had those troubles too. But I did then treat myself inside with that gotu kola for a month afterwards, and that did help.

I have to tell you that healing from these problems takes a damn long time, and you have to develop the longview to this healing process. I know you are pressured by your work place to make a normal recovery, and that is too bad that you have to deal with that at a time like this, but you, yourself, have to embrace that the problems in your butt take time to heal.

Take for instance this damn fissure I have---yeah, I got some things good to treat it, but it will take from 6 weeks to 3 months to work, okay? So if I start to get stressed out 2 weeks from now that I am not healed, it doesn't mean the things I am taking are not working. I see you stressing out that nothing is working fast enough, and then it seems that you feel that those treatment modalities are worthless, but I am trying to tell you don't lose hope, and keep on treating yourself with those things, and believe that you will be better. You will.

Get some calmoseptine. It will help you. Try some elocon cream tonight. And have a good sleep.
Walt, sorry about your struggles today. Is there some way you can stand up to work from time to time to take the strain off of your still healing butt?

That's what I did when my butt was still tender,make sure to take the pressure off of the area, and work standing for a few minutes, then sit, then stand,etc.

I want you to know that my fissure healed---and you know how? 5 days ago right before my bedtime,I would insert a pea-size dose of elocon cream inside my butthole. I noticed a big difference by morning,but still had some bleeding and soreness for the next 3 days. By today, my fissure was all gone.

I, still, though, have a tiny bit of bleeding that happens on some bm that is coming from inside me somewhere, not visible to my scrutiny. I'm thinking it must be the scar tissue getting irritated sometimes. Runninggal said her surgeon told her she could have such setbacks of her scar tissue bleeding for up to a year. Some fun, this recovery,huh?
Walt, I am really sorry about your difficulties. I really do feel that your forced return to work has set you back. I count my blessings that I work at home, and I know that has helped me to properly take it easy, and doctor my butt as needed. Even though you have done your best to find the best sitting positions at work, you still were forced to a regimen that was too early for you to go through. I don't doubt the tension and stress has contributed to your getting those setbacks to your scar area.

Runninggal who is a month or so more further than I, told me she still suffers some bleeding from time to time; she also told me her surgeon told her she can expect setbacks for up to a year, with stools too hard recutting the scar area, or foods too coarse. This is a horrible problem of this recovery. Even today I had a tiny bit of blood on the tissue, and I have to deal with bad stinging which I believe is a small cut in my scar area. Here I am at 4-1/2 months and I spend more time in the bathroom then I do anywhere else, or so it feels.

Just today alone I had 5 bowel movements, and not small ones, and the same yesterday, all in a struggle to keep my stools soft through metamucil. Do you think I like this lifestyle? Like you, I will not be celebrating Thanksgiving this year, and probably not Christmas, just mailing presents to relatives, as I can't go more than a short time away from my bathroom, and I am not recovered enough to use other public restrooms or relatives' bathrooms. I still can't trust my bowels, and I have to have on hand my trusty butt treatments whenever I go.

I am hoping in a year or two these things will be things of the past, but as you know by now, this is a long, slow recovery, too slow for the fast pace of today's world. At least you finally found a surgeon who told you the truth, that you have 2 cuts, and what you can expect. Have you ventured to try the elocon for a 4 day treatment, once at bedtime? If you do, I would start it on a Friday night, on through Sunday, when you can follow with 2 days at home, to give your butt the proper rest. I have found when I have cuts inside, it helps greatly to reduce the swelling. I have had to use it 3 separate times, and each time got great relief.
lbp35, first off keep taking colace for a good 2 months after your symptoms are gone. Next you should be constantly keeping your butt hole moist and protected with something like a&d ointment as I use from CVS, called Protective Ointmentm or Eckerds--not fogoura as that is too thin of an ointment. Dry skin can promote cracking or tearing of your butt hole, which is why it is imperative you put a pea-size glob of ointment just inside your butt hole opening. This will help your healing.

I had a fissure which I healed using 2 weeks nifedipine ointment, followed by 5 days of elocon cream. The elocon cream made a huge difference; it comes as an ointment or cream, and is made for skin inflammations and problems, and it helped to bring down the swelling in my butt hole from the fissure and heal it as well. From then on, I had to, and still do, put a dab of a&d ointment in my butt hole after every bm, and every hour or two to keep it constantly well-greased and supple. In other words, I constantly worked at making sure my butt hole was protected and aggresively treated any problems.

I now have a little tiny cut in another area that I am treating, and it has significantly improved in the last 2 days since it appeared due to too many bowel movements. I used elocon once each night, and A&D ointment several times per day.
Quote from Tammynoska:
Walt, I am really sorry about your difficulties


Tammy,

Thank you for the concern.

My life is coming unglued. Today, Saturday I'm in great despair. Not only am I dealing with my butt problems but also with nose surgery after effects. I have terrible congestion in both nostrils and I'm finding it extremely difficult to lay in a prone position. I've tried just about everything I can think of to keep my nose from plugging up. I get some relief from sitting or standing which helps the nose from not plugging. Unfortunately the sitting and standing further increases my butt despair. It's so bad today I'm contemplating popping a vicodin and that is getting pretty desperate at this stage of recovery.

Usually I can get some butt relief in the morning from overnight healing. But today, I woke up feeling the burning and stinging from my cuts right off. So I new it was not going to be a good day :(. I been feeling lately like I have a broken bottle stuck up my butt while standing and like sitting on glass while seated. I'm finding it extremely hard to function. I'm struggling to say the least ... I force myself to eat anymore.

Yes, the new (previous) surgeon has spoken the truth maybe. His first solution was to put me on an antibiotic (flagyl) even though he told me there was no infection. I have not tolerating antibiotics well lately. This one has given me serve stomach cramps -- a possible side effect. I've been on it 3 times daily since Wednesday and not seen any improvement. I'm beginning to wonder if these wounds will ever heal. I too am beginning to wonder the difference between fissures and cuts.

No, I have not ventured to try the elocon. Partly because I'm afraid to put anything in the area since I still have open wounds.

I'm trying everything to keep my stool soft and easy flowing. But lately I'm pushing (a big no no) to get them started. I'm using the same mix of colace (400mg), surfak (240mg), and metamucial (two times powder, two wafers). I have also increased to eating more fruit, salads, and vegetables. It's not like they are super hard but more so than in my early recovery months. This mixture just seems to be failing me now.

I got to tell you it's all I can do to go on ... This coming 19th makes three months for me. I just can;t seem to buy a break :(.
lbp35, I completely agree with Walt on exercising great care about popping meds for anxiety or depression. These meds are meant for people with chemical imbalances, but, in recent years, have been abused and twisted, by many doctors and therapists, to treat feelings of depression and anxiety due to genuine causes. It is almost as if having normal feelings these days are taboo, and we are becoming a society of anesthesized zombies. Any drug your doctor gave you because he wants to 'turn off' your feelings of anxiety with a pop of a pill, you should visit the drug manufacturer online and read all of the possible side effects. You need to be fully informed about all of the adverse effects of that med before you dare swallow even one.

I have known people, who were normal before they took anxiety drugs, to commit suicide as a side effect of these drugs, to lose their sanity and seems like crazy mental patients. I have personally known people who have taken these drugs for short term anxiety and then found they were addicted and had to go through a long withdrawal process, or risk terrible side effects. Not to mention, what if some of these drugs cause you constipation, which would worsen your fissure problems.

It sucks to have fissures, it is genuinely depressing and distressing.

Instead of pill popping, you need to develop mental strategies to help you cope with these problems, while you are working to get over the fissures. And let me let you in on something else: lbp35, you didn't do anything wrong. God isn't punishing you. Perhaps an incompetent surgeon has screwed you over, or an unethical one who didn't advise you of the risks is fully responsible for leaving you in this miserable state.

I think your therapist is an idiot who has no clue what it is like to endure this type of problem. To even dare suggest to you that you need meds because of your nerves, is to show not only how clueless your therapist is, but also insensitive to the level of pain and distress you are in. Your therapist might have helped you with some emotional issues in the past, but your therapist clearly shows she does not possess the understanding of how traumatic this surgery is, and is, therefore, in my opinion, not qualified to advise you properly in how to cope with your natural feelings of distress at the possibility of having to face another surgery. So if I were you, I would not discuss this problem with her as she is only going to give you an insensitive, and possibly needlessly dangerous, solution as she already has telling you to pop anxiety meds.

Honestly, if after going what I have gone through, and I had a therapist who told me she thought I needed meds to 'treat my nerves' rather than offering me support and methods to cope with the stress and distress, and meet face on and get through healing fissures, and possibly having repair surgery, I would ditch that therapist.

Don't take meds to turn yourself into a zombie to 'stop obsessing' about a genuine physical problem. Instead get pro-active to treat your fissures, and if that doesn't work, then use mental techniques to help you get brave to undergo repair surgery. Do you want to be a medicated, loopy idiot with painful fissures? Because that is what you risk popping anxiety drugs. Or do you want to be in control, trying different healing methods to get over your very real and painful fissures, and have a good chance of doing that, with all of your mental faculties intact?

I had a fissure 6 weeks ago that I healed. I just got a new cut 3 days ago during my transition off of colace and going to metamucil. The last thing I need to do is to pop meds that downplay my feelings of anxiety. Do you know that those are natural, good feelings that act as a signal from your body to make you act and do something now to heal yourself?

How did I get over my fissure? I used nifedipine cream 0.2% compounded by my local pharmacy for $45. I used this for 2 weeks, then followed with 4 days of elocon. I also took lots of colace and kept my stools consistently soft. The fissure healed. Technically, though, I should have kept up the nifedipine for a month, but I got lazy. I get awfully tired of having to doctor my butt, as I am sure you know what I mean.

Now I am doing the same thing for my new cut. I started nifedipine 3 times a day, with A&D ointment inbetween. I am still experimenting with the metamucil alone, without colace, as I am now almost 5 months post surgery, and am trying to go completely without colace. I am giving myself a week to fiddle with the metamucil to get it right.

However, if within a week I continue to have intermittent bouts of hard stools, I will add colace to soften my stools to get over this new cut. End of story. When I feel the pain of my cut/fissure which feels like alcohol on an open wound, I get genuinely distressed and depressed. What the hell is wrong with those feelings? Nothing, they are normal, and no way should you let anyone tell you that you need to medicate yourself when you experience such normal feelings of anxiety due to genuine physical cause. Your therapist has just earned the Turkey Award. Pass along the dressing, and we'll have Thanksgiving feast around her.
Quote from wjpjr:
Tammy, When you had your fissure did you have any pain?


Walt, like alcohol poured on an open paper cut. Very ouchy. That cream is nifedipine, and it has to be compounded as it is not available as a cream. It is compounded at the same strength as the nitroglycerin cream for fissures.

I had to call around my local pharmacies for one that does compounding, and then I had to argue with the pharmacist who wanted to sell me on a different cream used by a well-known hospital in my area. I firmly declined and told him I only wanted the nifedipine.

If you do a search online you will read some very uplifting information on the use of nifedipine cream for fissures. Do a search on nifedipine cream treating fissures and a couple of studies should come up on it. Generally it is used for 2 months for best results. I actually stopped at 2 weeks, shame on me, as I got lazy. Then I used elocon for 4 days. I've got a new cut now at the 6:15 position I have started to treat with the nifedipine, and have gotten good relief only 3 days into the treatment. My fissure last month was at the 6:30 position.

By the way, from what I've read, a fissure is a shallow cut, so I actually think most cuts in the rectum are considered fissures. But it makes me feel better to call mine a cut, as it doesn't seem so tough to heal when named that.

Lpb35, if you are reading this, the mental switchero I did to call my fissure a cut to make it easier to deal with mentally, is an example of a healthy mental coping technique, and that is what you need to develop, not pop pills instead!
Walt, I'm really sorry about taking so long to reply, but this is the busiest time of the year for me, and I am crushed with work. I won't be able to respond properly until after Thanksgiving weekend.

Any rate, quickly, that A&D ointment is not the formula I use. Mine is:

active ingredient: white petrolatum 72.7%
inactive ingredients: anhydrous lanolin, light mineral oil, petrolatum, vitamin a palimate and vitamin d.

I found that the ingredients DO make a difference.

This particular mixture once was sold by Eckerds drugstore, but it seems that they lost or gave up the manufacturing of it. I went desperate trying to find it, then learned that CVS Pharmacy now was putting out their own brand with the identical ingredients. It did turn out to be exactly the same one. CVS doesn't call it A&D ointment, thought, but Protective Ointment.

Also, I don't know why your doctor gave you the nifedipine as an ointment. Everywhere I read the nifedipine was given as a cream. Will this make a difference?

I don't know, but I do know that I have not had the same results with other medicines that I had used as creams that were given to me identical strength in ointment form, such as elocon. The ointment version of elocon doesn't cut it for me.

Also, I don't know if in ointment form the nifedipine will inhibit healing or not?

Still everywhere I read, and according to my doctor, the nifedipine should be put on the same amount of times per day as nitroglycerin cream for fissures, and that is 3 times a day, spaced out, so always some nifedipine is working on the fissure.

As you figured out, I used a small BB size dose. You shouldn't use a penny-size or larger, or you may experience bad side effects of nifedipine, and it won't make your fissure heal any faster. If you posted any other concerns, I haven't had the chance to read, and will get back to everybody later this week.
Hi, anitraw, good to hear from you. Christmas season is my second busiest time of the year for my business which I run from my home (if I had had to go to a job, I would have been fired due to my butt problems dictating my life). So I was unable to post--I still am busy, but was able to grab a few seconds to see how all are doing.

I am getting through healing yet a third fissure, and not doing too bad today. I started yesterday to use my elocon lotion, and that always does good healing.

My problem is the surgery gave me raised scar tissue that makes my butt hole smaller than it was, and any hard stools can cause me fissures. I am not happy about that. I am trying to see if I can overcome this without surgery (a lateral sphincterctomy). If I have to have that procedure, I can only have it in the summer time, as the colace makes me hypothyroid and cold intolerant, and I can't go through winter intolerant to cold---got to have my internal heater working. :>)

I totally got off of colace a couple of months ago. The transition time I had 2-3 days of hard stools, but I got through it okay. My problem has been learning that some foods make me require higher doses of metamucil than normal, and others can make me have a bit less. Not a fun lesson to be learning, to say the least.

Colace does me good for surgery recovery, but it interferes with my thyroid medicine, no matter what time of the day I take my thyroid meds, and I consequently start to suffer from hypothryroid symptoms the longer I am on it. So long term it is not a good thing for me to take colace, that is why I got off of it. If I have to have surgery again, I will get back on colace for my recovery time---metamucil might make my soft stools, but they require a bit of a push to get out, while colace makes the stools flow out on their own without pushing if I take enough.

I found that I have to have some raisin bran with the metamucil, or the metamucil does not make things soft enough for me. I have have a 1/4 cup to half a cup of raisin bran a day; you might try doing that, if you decide not to use colace. But there is no need for you to get off it, if you are not experiencing any kind of problems with it. I have read some people taking it for years without problems.