Discussions that mention estradiol

Osteoporosis board


Hi Osteo how are you??? It seems we have a lot in common;) I'm taking Activella (estrogen/progesteron) and it's helping the meno probs. My mineral metabolism dr still isn't thrilled that I'm on this, but it has helped with my sleeping issues, and the night sweats and hot flashes.

If you read the Cleveland Clinic paper on Forteo, look at the paragraph on hormones/forteo. The author claims that women with estrogen deficiency can take both meds at the same time. Therorectically estrogen should blunt the effect of forteo, because it's an antiresorptive, but I'm taking it anyway. The article says that there haven't been any head to head studies on forteo and hrt, but it probably won't diminish the effects of forteo. I know this isn't a concrete statement one way or the other, so you and your dr will have to decide what to do.

My estradiol level were really low (9) and I just couldn't sleep more than 3 hours a night, so I started taking this last April. My dx was extreme estrogen deficiency, which we know has a tremendous effect on our bones. When I have my NTx done next week I'm going to see if it's effecting my score from the last test. If it plummets from the last one, I'll have to rethink the hormones. According to my Mineral Met dr, the NTx score will tell her if the hormones are blunting the forteo. She's afraid of this, and I only have till the end of this coming June on forteo so we'll see. I don't want to give up on sleep again, I did that for so long, and with the constant pain I have to sleep or I never get a break.

Hormones don't usually help with sleep, but in my case it stopped the night sweats, which were keeping me up all the time. I would be drenched most of the night and had to get up 4-5 times to dry off. I can't believe what it's like to finally sleep 8 hours without waking up.

All you can do is figure the risk v benefit and go with your decision.

Below is the link to CCMJ, so copy and paste it into your browser, and read it when you have the time. I haven't read it recently, so if you can read it that might help you.

BTW, I have to have the ultrasound every 3 months, mamo 2 times a year and pap 1 time a year because of the hormones. In my case I have had scares with cysts, but I'm fibrocystic and have had these for years, and it all started long before the hormones.

[url]http://www.ccjm.org/pdffiles/DEAL703.PDF#search=%22forteo%20and%20osteosarcoma%22[/url]

Look at page 597 last para. :angel:
Taape-Sorry I haven't had opportunity to get into the estrogen/bone connection but things are way complicated . I feel I would have to do so much research before I could even write anything helpful and right now I am on technical /medical overload. I wish that someone out there with some information on the connection would pitch in -we'll see.I recall your situation, the forteo, the gains, the loss. And your sensitivity about the bisphosphonates. Taape, I hope someone does come up with some more info here but I do think it may be something for you to explore , taking into account your own and your family's med . history. I will try to follow up on this with anything helpful that I find.

DesertBloom-I am OK. I hope you are doing well. We do seem to have so many issues in common.I would love to catch up with you on a number of topics. Maybe this is a good time for you / maybe not. I will just put it out there ,as they say .
How is your pt doing? I hope if is helpful.I seem to recall you were going to start a program where you would do pt several times a week. Did you find it helpful? Mid Jan I start an 8 wk wellness program at a major med center- the program is based on Jon Kabat Zinn's MBSR-Mindfullness based stress reduction. You might want to check that out on the net and learn about the program- also his books including Full Catastrophe Living (does that sound familiar?). I think his program would be so helpful for anyone dealing with a chronic degenerative disease or chronic pain. Prior to start of the program I am going to work individually with the instructor for a few sessions. On those days, I will also meet with a pt to review my osteo program to see how I am doing. I feel that this is going to help alot. I have been through a pretty low period ( maybe the constant bleak weather) and am very ready to roll up my sleeves and work on things.As I get into the MBSR, I will start a thread on it , in the event it may be of assistance to others.
Any help with the tai chi dvd?- if it is too much ,there are qigong dvd's by garripoli that may be alot easier.Our library has the garripoli dvds- so you might check the library if interested. I so love this stuff- It has taken all I have recently to keep up with the walking and weight lifting, the tai chi has gotten lost for a bit. But in my heart the tai chi and qigong are where it is at. They soothe me in some deep way that I need soothing. If that makes sense to you?
I am concerned about your vit d. As I was about mine when it was 19. But if your test was correct, are you going ahead with high dosing??One problem with scripted high dose is that it is not D3. I looked for a vit d 3 high dose in oil suspension and found a 10,000 capsule .I take 3 capsules a week. I think it must be what has gotten me to 44. As I said mine took months to go up when I started on 2,0000 and it went up by 2 pts. I had to do the much higher dose.I am fascinated by the forteo and what it does to the d25 and the d1,25 -the inverse correlation. But right now I have no doc who can/will explain this to me.
I am thinking the estrace vag cream- is not going to interfere much with the forteo.It seems others have been on the cream and did ok on forteo. Did you do a estro cream while on forteo? The active ingredient is estradiol.
So, you will be off forteo in 6 months(for me 10).Do you know what is next? If hrt is antiresorptive then, maybe it would be a good complementary treatment with the bisphosphonates. Is that what your thinking?I am about six yrs. since meno started. I just feel if I am going to do ht. then it is now or soon. Did you do ht before or are you just starting now?
So many questions, I know. Mostly I am just hoping that you are doing well!:)
p.s. leaving dial up behind and going high speed this weekend, will then find it alot easier. Thanks for the Cleveland Clinic info and will check that. Also will post a link for an audio vit d talk this weekend . I think you and others will find interesting. When d is low we may only get very small percent of calcium we take in. I am sure you know this already but I will get the link in . I just need some help from my dh.
Hi Osteo: I'm still going to PT 3 times a week and it's helping my neck. I get traction, deep tissue massage/muscle stim and then I do neck and posture exercises. I have 5 bulging discs in my neck which are causing numbness in my arms, so hopefully what I'm doing will get the discs back into place. I've never heard of Jon Kabat, so I'm anxious to see what you find out and how it goes for you. What will you be doing???

I'm seeing the Endo tomorrow about my D situation, and I'm not sure what he has planned for it. If he wants to do the high dosing of D, I'll go along with that, but it doesn't sound like that solves the problem very fast, since your level took so long to increase on it. I'm incourage by Pika post about vit D levels and Forteo, I'll have to do some reading on that.

I did the vaginal creme for awhile, but found it uncomfortable so I'm just taking the oral estro/proges. I have No Clue what I'm going to take after Forteo, I've heard several suggestions (Evista, Bisphos) but the only thing I know is it probably won't be a Bisphosphonate.

I was on Prempro years ago, and then taken off because I had a lot of breast cysts (fibrocystic), so for about 7 years I didn't take any and now I'm very low in estradiol. I won't get my NTx back till Jan so it will be interesting to see what the Mineral Metabolism dr says about continuing on the low dose hormone. She's not thrilled about me taking it, and if my score drops (NTx) I'll have to seriously consider stopping it.

I bet you're happy you're not on dial up anymore!!!!

Keep me informed on your D, hormones etc. and I'm still working at the Tai chi because it makes me feel calmer, it's just causing some additional pain:)
Still on dial up for probably another day. The service person has to come out this afternoon. So, it won't be long and I will be off dial up. It is so slow , we joke that there are little men on bikes, powering the computer and they do just the best they can- but they can't keep up. I have a book by the computer and read when the little men are having trouble keeping up. Soon they can just rest and I can go speeding along!
It's great to hear the pt is helping you .From what you say, it sounds like you can move the discs into their proper place, is that right? Three times a week pt is alot of work!
Glad you are going to get moving soon on the vit d! Let us know what the doc says. Soon, I can post on the difference between the D2 and D3 , the article has a chart. But, I too took the D2 Drisdol and it did move things up after a while but it went back down pretty quickly too.Have you noticed more bone/muscular pain with your low d levels? When I was low d I had aching in legs almost every night for several years that just went away when d level went up ( but I should add this result is I believe they say confounded because at the same time I brought my ferritin level up. - so which or both stopped the nightly pain is a question)

When did you re-start ht with activella? As you say the bone spec. will look at the ntx to see what is going on , I gather starting ht again is pretty recent?But , as you get nearer to the end of forteo, the ntx is going to return to baseline so maybe you won't know if it is just expected return to baseline or ht going on. As I said , in Jan I see the rheum. who is going to manage the bone project, and check me for sjogren's. The gyn wants me to ask her if it is ok now with forteo to start the low dose ht.This is all pretty complex isn't it. You know, with our estradiol so low and let's say low dose ht , maybe that just brings us to where alot of others on forteo would be anyway? If you know what I mean?Later after forteo, that is going to be a difficult choice. Are you thinking then, you stop the HT?

Jon KabatZinn Ph.D started Mindfullness Based Stress Reduction at the Stress Reduction Clinic at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center some 15 years ago. He has several books and cds out.You can easily find his bio, accomplishments and various info about the program on the net. If you look at the book Full Catastrophe Living it outlines the 8 week program.The program covers breathing awareness, very simple yoga moves( but I talked with the instructor and for me we will modify) meditation,working with stress, working with physical pain, working with emotional pain etc. If you check out Kabat Zinn , he travels the world over now to teach his program. Probably your library would have some of his books, and cd's. I will provide more info later as I actually go through and take the course but indications are it is extremely helpful .
Sorry to hear tai chi is causing additional pain. Maybe some things you could do not in the tai chi stance but just normal standing posture and it may be easier. Do you like the scenery and music on the dvd ? it always seems like a vacation to me. It would be great to have Scot as a local instructor! Also the Garripoli dvd has some moves that I know could be done sitting that you may find helpful. Sort of a self massage, relaxation sequence that starts at the top of the head, covers forehead, eyes , cheeks and is extremely relaxing. Maybe it is something like self accupressure. It may sound odd but it is definitely something to try and see if it could work for you.I think these ancient healing arts are very powerful.
Hi Osteo: Sorry you have to wait another day on the computer. You'll love it once they switch it over.

As far as the disc situation goes, they "say" that it's possible to move ruptured disc back into place with manipulation, well it's actually traction which is different. I won't have another surgery, and this seems to be the only thing right now that is helping. I have more range of motion, than I did when I started it, so that's great.

I've noticed more joint pain since this D situation started, but never really related it to that. If the dr hadn't check the D 25, on my suggestion, he would have continued to do the 125 only. I've noticed that my nails are growing real slow, which is extremely unusual for me, did that happen when your D dropped?

I started the Activella last June, and am on the lowest dose they make so maybe you're right that being so low in Estradiol puts us in a different category than those who have normal levels on Forteo. When I started the Activella my estradiol was 9 and now its 54, so I'm closer to normal levels. My gyn thinks the low dose is essential, but he really knows very little about Forteo. He does believe the estrogen will increase my bone formation, so we'll see.

The only thing that bothers me with the tai chi is the stance so I'll try it standing up straight. I got the impression from Scott that the stance was really important. I do like the location and music it's calming and enjoyable. I was talking to my physical therapist about it, and she said something interesting about pain and arthritis, and that is you have to keep moving even though it hurts, but to find a comfortable level of pain. If you don't keep moving it will just get worse, so you have to find your limit and the tai chi doesn't cause tremendous pain, just additional in the knees like you would have from bending at the knees. I'm going to keep doing it to see if it will relieve some of the stiffness.

Good luck with the Rheumy...

:angel:
As far a Vit d and nail growth , I cannot say I have noticed too much on length. But recently I have thought my nails were smoother, that the ridges are not so definite. I have no idea what is going on there.
Let us know if some of your bone pain subsides when you get your d level back.I have repeatedly read about bone/muscle pain connected to deficiency in vit d.
Even though Pika B cited the article , and I have yet to read it- I cannot see how the low d could be good or even ok if a person is making bone. What I am thinking is that if vitamin d deficiency can cause rickets in children with growing bone, and cause ostemalacia in adults then how could the bone be growing with good quality if in a deficiency status. Regardless of the article , I want my vit. d to be at a decent level whether on forteo or off forteo.
Sounds great about the pt - hope it continues to help.
Now that your estradiol is in normal range, do you feel better? The gyn I went to for the ht agrees with your doc about the bone formation effects. Of course, they are not the bone experts though.Are you thinking that you will continue with ht after you are done with the forteo? I really wouldn't want to start it and then have to quit some 9 months later. I think it would be sort of jarring to the system and not good in that respect. I would like to see some way to continue with it after forteo.Perhaps your incredible dexa results were in fact in some way connected with the low dose ht ??
Glad to hear you will go forward with the tai chi. It took me probably 2 months of pretty steady practice to get a handle on the moves. I hope it will turn out to be worth the ridiculous wait they put you through to get the dvd. Don't you love the flowing tai chi movement with arms flowing in front in sort of a wave motion.I feel like a willow tree blowing in the breeze. :)