Discussions that mention methadone

Addiction & Recovery board

when does it end

:yawn: it has been 2 months i have been off methadone thanks to all of the messages ive read on health boards it was really encouraging to know i wasnt the only one in this situation the reason im writing is because ive been off methadone 3o mgs for chronic back pain and decided it was consuming me 2 months later i still have severe anxiety depression and just have no self worth or pleasure in anything and my patience is wearing pretty F-ing thin can some one tell me if this is normal ifeel like im in some one elses body
I just quit using the duragesic patch. I have been on opiates for 5 years. I am having increased anxiety attachs also. My dr put me on a low dose of xanax for the anxiety and upped my antidepressent to also help. Good luck in staying of the methadone.
Paitence,

After two months and with a dose of 30 mgs you should not be feeling any residual effects of the meth. I think your anxiety is unrelated. The meth is a good mask for these things. Meth is a long acting drug. It seems to drag you down forever after you quit. But at two months, the physical withdrawal symptoms are gone. We sometimes link all of our woes to our encounters with opiates. I've kicked much higher doses several times. Most of my methadone detoxes were courtesy of the state. No weaning, no xanax, if you get my picture. Takes 30 days to really start to get your full energy back. My belief is you got the physical part licked!

TMB
Hi no patience,
How are you doing now? I am wondering because I am considering weaning off of methadone that I take for my chronic back pain. I tried a quick switch to more of a different opiate last week (doctors idea) and had a bad withdrawal. How is your pain now and what are you doing for it?

thanks,
farmboy7
hey whats up it is so hard to switch from methadone to another opiate because the withdrawals from the meth still shine through one thing that did help me a little was my doc weaned me off with a fentynal patch right now im taking celebrex but not working ive tried everything the sad thing is ill probably end up back on it because my pain sucks and its the only thing that helps you to function w/out pain i dont mean to discourage you about weaning off but if you do my heart goes out to you its tough thanx kelleigh and good luck if your pain is that bad i suggest staying on it i think i made a mistake
Quote from howard678:
No patience,

Terminology has evolved and I actually agree with the distinction addiction/dependency that Jennita makes. True "addicts" are out to get a buzz or get wasted and benzos are often used by them to enhance alcohol highs or to come down from opiate and cocaine binges. But these rarely get "addicted" to "dependant" on or say "hooked" on benzos. Daily theraputic users often do. Yet some of these may increase doses in order to escape from life which may fall under "addiction." Frankly though, I am much more concerned with encouraging you to flush those pills than semantics. Why take a chance on the potentially worst and most long term withdrawal syndrome of all? Looking up the Ashton Manual on the net was a good suggestion...

Jennita,

Thanks for your concern. Am half way to the finish line. Got an excellent doc. I am "the same ole me," however. I read stories of people that spent months not answering the door or telephone. Well, in my case, there would be no telephone or door to answer... So I instead choose to listen to Ashton, who says a slow taper enables one "to go on with their normal lives." So far, so good. As to recovery time for the brain, makes perfect sense. Particulars, longevity in my individual case, will have to wait and see. No point in worrying about tomorrow. Can only work to screw up today.

howard my therapist said i would only be on these for 4 to5 weeks i take them to get rid of the rage and constant panic attacks i was having also for the 2 1/2 months i was off methadone i felt a constant prickly pins and needles feeling in my arms face and back of neck it was like the feeling that comes over your body when you are in a horrifying situation and the klonopin took that away i couldnt stand it anymore im not a violent person but let me tell it was coming to it this methadone thing really messed me up physical addiction to me is a crock i dont care if its heroin or what ever other drug they say physical addiction comes with no phychological addiction well the experts can talk to me and if the klonopin is gonna help me at least feel like a human being instead of pin cushin and help me beable to go out and function in society im gonna continue im sorry if i sound like a bi--- but im just so sick of this long drawn out f-ing process i guess thats why im no patience thanks so much i really appreciate your input love and peace kelleigh
Quote from SimplyStupid:
Jennita~ you are the first person on here to really put into words what a BENZO can do. I am living proof of what a HORROR you will go thru if you abuse and stop. As I stated in another thread, it took me well over a year to regain control over my body. I had to RELEARN how to write my name. thats just the beginning of the hell I went thru. I have NO idea why these docs write them so freely. You could never get me to take another one. I would tell anybody to just bo-up and bear it before you take a benzo for the wd's....but anyway, I've never really talked to anybody that went thru what I did and you're the closest that I've seen describe it. ~SS

ss jennita definitly did give some awesome information i am horrifyed to hear the story of what you went through i thought my detox from methadone was bad im so glad to hear that part of your hell is over im not sure if your fully recovered but if your not i hope you will be soon love and peace kelleigh
Quote from tryinmybest:
Paitence,

After two months and with a dose of 30 mgs you should not be feeling any residual effects of the meth. I think your anxiety is unrelated. The meth is a good mask for these things. Meth is a long acting drug. It seems to drag you down forever after you quit. But at two months, the physical withdrawal symptoms are gone. We sometimes link all of our woes to our encounters with opiates. I've kicked much higher doses several times. Most of my methadone detoxes were courtesy of the state. No weaning, no xanax, if you get my picture. Takes 30 days to really start to get your full energy back. My belief is you got the physical part licked!

TMB


No patience. I empathize, promise. :) Above is what a prior poster told you. You have been off two months, and from what I have read, heard, and seen, your physical withdrawal from opiates should be over. Did you have panic attacks before you became addicted to opiates? The issues that caused one to want drugs will usually be waiting for the user once they are off them, IMO.

Less than a month of Klonopin use probably would not produce any physical dependance, but what is the plan after that? If you still have intense anxiety I assure you that you can find someone to give you more Klonopin or Xanax. Was never a problem for me. Then you are heading down the road... For those that must have meds to function because of these issues SSRIs more likely to be a better short term solution because there is much less propensity to build tolerance, and the withdrawal syndromes, when they occur, are known to be shorter and less severe.

I know what it is like to need to function, as unlike many in cyberspace, I do not have the personal resources stay at home 6 month or a year then go job hunting again. Unless you want to call an automobile or a refrigerator box a home. I had some panic attacks when trying to come off Xanax or Klonopin because the withdrawals made me feel like I was having a heart attack. Well, I have had extensive tests done and I am healthy as a horse, aside from benzo dependency. So if I feel a bit of anxiety coming on, which everyone has to some degree, I do not "freak out" or believe the lie, at least have not in many months. There are non-drug methods for coping with these problems. CBT therapy being one.
Quote from Jennita:
Your welcome, no patience. Sometimes we have to educate ourselves on some of these issues because doctors are usually too busy to look into details of things like withdrawal syndromes. Best wishes to you! :)

Howard,

Well, it sounds like the insomnia of your past was from overwork and bad sleep schedule. Napping does seem to exasperate that sort of thing. I wouldn't know really; the only time of my life I had insomnia at all was when I was exposed to prescription drugs, and of course the withdrawal syndrome. Before that, I slept like a teenager practically...a good 7-8 hours everynight...I don't know if it was genetics, or the fact I exercised alot, or that milk was my choice with a steak dinner instead of wine. I was not a health nut(I like my chocolate and sodas) but I did have an interest in healthy lifestlyle. I especially like weight training.

As far as sleep aids during withdrawals, I found it was hit-and-miss. Some nights, one thing would work, but not always.

I did get good results from double-bagging chamomile tea into just a half cup water a little before bedtime. Milk sometimes worked too; either warm or cold. I seemed to get results from calcium supplements around an hour or a half hour before bed. When my sleep started to improve, Benedryl did help me on nights it looked like I wouldn't drift off at all.

And I remember another thing that helped me....believe it or not, plain tylenol. Someone in the support group mentioned that a drop in body temp encourages sleep. Again, this was not a sure-everynight thing, but it was wonderful when it actually worked, and it did quite a few times. Benzos /withdrawals seem to mess with body temp as well.

I've heard some people swear by Valerian Root but I didn't try it; I guess the fact it was toted as a weaker version of Valium turned me off of it. I thought it might be too simular. But really, I'm sure it is safe enough. Check with your doctor anyway. Melantonin is another one I was a bit afraid of, but maybe you could ask about that one too.

I think there are alot of things you could try out there; all are definately safer than prescription drugs! Let me know how it goes....

jennita youre definitly right my primary doc and my pain doc both said after 2wks from withdrawaling from methadone i'd be fine look at me almost 3 months later still a basket case and feeling like i'm living someone elses life if they are gonna hand out all these scripts like candy they need to tell you the consequences i knew nothing about methadone when i started taking it if i was more informed of the after effects insted of a little pharmacy paper this could be habit forming why doesnt it say if you ever have to stop taking this medication prepare to feel like your in hell for months thanks had to vent just so angry kelleigh
farmboy 7 you posted me a few days ago about weaning off methadone just wondered how it was going and if you made your decision kelleigh
Quote from howard678:
Kayleigh,

You ask why I have sleep problems? Would be hard to be nosy. We are about helping one another and sharing experiences.

1. I am a very hard working professional.

2. I have a demanding boss.

3. I am tapering off of Valium, and this drug is now useless as a sleep aid. It is a highly sedative drug but only for about a month if taken daily, unless you start upping dosings but there is no way in the world I will do this.

However, I do sleep, but not enough, and not well enough.

howard i take trazadone for sleep also you should look in to it before i started taking it i woke up every hour i even took it during methadone w/ds and slept the whole night never had insomnia during w/ds because of it jennitas right there really no side effects from it and no w/d symptoms like from effexor and paxil this stuff is great thanks for replying hope this helps kelleigh
patience, I have just stopped taking methadone hours short of 8 days..could you tell me when I can expect to sleep . No sleep and not even a yawn. Sometimes I think I fall asleep for about 45 minutes..Please tell me soon.. noreally I need honesty , just in high hopes that it will be soon..thanks in advance...and stay strong, I admire you alot, I know it was a nightmare for me..I keep thinking ..."yes!I made it through the hard part, If I can beat that, nothing in life can hold me back. Although I feel like crap I also feel like it has kinda empowered me. Maybe its silly and maybe its from lack of sleep but hope I continue to feel this way. You should be very proud of yourself. I know it was the hardest thing I have ever done. stay strong!!! ;)
Quote from deeanndees:
patience, I have just stopped taking methadone hours short of 8 days..could you tell me when I can expect to sleep . No sleep and not even a yawn. Sometimes I think I fall asleep for about 45 minutes..Please tell me soon.. noreally I need honesty , just in high hopes that it will be soon..thanks in advance...and stay strong, I admire you alot, I know it was a nightmare for me..I keep thinking ..."yes!I made it through the hard part, If I can beat that, nothing in life can hold me back. Although I feel like crap I also feel like it has kinda empowered me. Maybe its silly and maybe its from lack of sleep but hope I continue to feel this way. You should be very proud of yourself. I know it was the hardest thing I have ever done. stay strong!!! ;)

deeanndees call your doc and see if he will prescribe you trazadone i was on it going through the w/ds and was lucky enough to sleep its just an ssri they use for sleep because everyone is different and your sleep pattern could not be normal for along time my heart is with you i know what your going through i also called my doc and he put me on a fentynal patch and weaned me down to help ease the withdrawals im telling you i really feel for you did you wean off the methadone or go cold turkey please keep in touch im proud of you for doing this it takes alot of will power sleep soon and please call your doc kelleigh :angel: :angel: :angel:
Quote from howard678:
Jennita,

Acquaintances and associates that have no idea about the benzo withdrawal say they do not know how I do it. I actually have two jobs, one long hours and high stress, one short hours, low stress. I guess I do not like the alternative, sitting at home watching grade B movies and my bank balance shrink. And I have had a very extensive physical exam and all is good, so I am probably not going to drop dead. But I do plan on some employment changes in the near future. A lot of things inspire me like Churchill`s quote when the bombs kept falling, "We will never surrender." That and the fact that I have acquired a lot of experience at feeling crappy off and on. Affects me less... Thanks for the encouragement and the hug. :)

howard if you don't mind my asking what are the benzow/d symptoms i hear their worse than what i went through with methadone thanks kelleigh
Quote from howard678:
Jennita,

Acquaintances and associates that have no idea about the benzo withdrawal say they do not know how I do it. I actually have two jobs, one long hours and high stress, one short hours, low stress. I guess I do not like the alternative, sitting at home watching grade B movies and my bank balance shrink. And I have had a very extensive physical exam and all is good, so I am probably not going to drop dead. But I do plan on some employment changes in the near future. A lot of things inspire me like Churchill`s quote when the bombs kept falling, "We will never surrender." That and the fact that I have acquired a lot of experience at feeling crappy off and on. Affects me less... Thanks for the encouragement and the hug. :)

howard i completly understand your story iknow methadone and benzos are 2 different things but when i went cold turkey i still had to work 6 days a week and raise my 7 yearr old daughter and i was working 2 jobs but it just got to be to much one of my jobs which i still do is clean houses which wasnt much fun when you had to drag yourself everywhere by your arms its amazing the willpower we get when we know we have to do something even though we feel like crud all our everyday things we do for some of us just have to be done know matter what i sympathize with your situation even though you seem to be handling it like a champ chat later kelleigh :wave: :angel: :wave: :angel:
Quote from howard678:
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No, tapering slow does not mean one will have no withdrawals when you come off completely. Most surely do and I`d be very surprised if I do not have them. But the landing should be much softer dropping from a very small dose, withdrawals less severe as the brain along the way has adjusted to accepting less and less of the drug. One typically feels the real effects of coming off for around 3 months. It is not uncommon to feel some level of the effects from time to time for a year or two as the brain fully adjusts back to it`s pre-benzo state. But, I strongly suspect that I will be functional, effective, and enjoying life during such time. Outcomes vary person to person so it is a wait and see thing. Look for the best, be prepared for any potholes in the road. Is the only way out. Only other option once hooked, keep taking the drugs, keep increasing and increasing doses digging a deeper hole, chasing relief. That is not going to happen here...

so if iget off these with in 4 weeks am i still going to have w/ds i'm just scared now and my methadone w/d was a nightmare and i don't want another w/d in my life post back thanks howard kelleigh
Quote from Jennita:
Hey, no patience,

Wish I could predict this all for you but when it comes to benzos, who knows...why, I've even heard of a few people not having withdrawals but boy that's pretty rare. The reason the panic came back after you tried not taking one is because you simply can't do that and expect to feel nothing because that's cold turkey which always causes that. But if you really do a super slow taper when the time comes to get off, you may only feel a little bad. You do have the advantage of not being on it for very long....which brings me to the question, why does your doctor want to extend that time? The recommended time on benzos according to the drug companies is usually only 2 weeks; 1 month should be plenty.

I'm also not sure what your doctor is planning in the way of tapering; sometimes they think a certain length of time is enough but usually they only go by what amount of time will be enough to prevent anything serious like seizures....not to prevent other symptoms because they tend to not believe in the withdrawal syndrome much, as we know.

I'd discuss the withdrawal schedule with the doctor; it can't usually be more than a 10% cut every 2 wks. If the doctor refuses that, maybe you should start it on your own since you will be getting an extra month of regular doses to help you taper slower. By the time the doctor approves the start of your taper, you may already be part the way there and will be able to stretch it out some.

hi jennita the doctor prescribed more because i.m still kind of having panicky situations like ending up in places i should'nt be like at the wrong doc or going to the wrong store and having a very hard time in social situations like even family situations some times i just can't bring my self to attend i'm just really having a hard time with coping with life after methadone it's like i'm learning certain things over again and all the stuff i avoided or delt with on methadone is hitting me like a ton of bricks and now i'm just so nervous that i may have to go through hell all over again thank you for replying i need all the info i can get so that way at my next prescribers meeting i can discuss these things with her and hopefully she won't sugar coat it i'm just so scared now i did'nt realize these meds were so bad i was nieve just like with methadone thank you jennita i'm glad i have you and howard for support it helps so much :angel: :angel: :angel:
Quote from howard678:
Jennita,

It is refreshing finding someone like yourself that can stand some disagreement without getting defensive and personal. :-) Kay Leigh`s case is not easy as opiates and panic issues are also on the table, so what may be quickly attributed to benzos may be something else. I hate these drugs as much as anyone but insist on trying to be objective. Some of this relates to my academic training.

I think a lot of tapering problems are related to the fear of tapering rather than the tapering itself. Ashton alludes to this. I feel it but cut 1.25 mgs a week and remain thus far plenty functional. And "plenty functional" is my definition of stable. And have no plans of taking 20 weeks to bust out the last 10 mgs, though I remain open minded on it. Stringing out a taper too long leaves one more prone to get hit more and more from two directions, reduction and tolerance withdrawals.

I have a hard time personally viewing insomnia as a withdrawal symptom. The problem is no worse now than it was 10 years ago, long before benzos. I recall Janik, and no offense to him if he reads this, speaking of taking 5 months to taper off of .25 mgs of Xanax, this over insomnia. That is unimagineable to me. That equates to 5 mgs of Valium. I know it is relative to some degree by that is just not much benzo. I plan to take the plunge at 2 or 3 mgs, especially if I am already feeling it, see no point in tapering pinches that only partially postpone the inevitable, some discomfort for a while.

As to Kay Leigh, well I think the discussion regarding her tapering will probably prove moot in the end, as I strongly suspect she will take her doctor`s advice and keep taking her pretty high dose of Klonopin for a while long, and then will need to taper. My suggestion I guess about 10 days ago was to ditch the stuff but I do not think that is going to happen. I never had a panic attack pre-benzo. Last one I had was in detox last Nov. I think some of the reason is that I am no longer afraid of them. I used to think they were heart attacks but all my tests in that area are normal. I know what they are, what they feel like, and what they can and cannot do. If I have one, I`ll just have it and if by chance I am in public I will excuse myself for a while. I am not looking for them or expecting them.


Thanks, howard. Well, we all have our individual views, experiences, and collection of information. For example, if you don't like Breggin, that's ok although I think he's a pioneer; Dr. Ann Tracy has been warning about SSRi's, inaccurate disclosures in clinical testing, etc. for 14 years now finally the mainstream media and the FDA have discovered it for themselves so I admire her too but you don't have to just because I do....but we both have Ashton so at least that's something, huh? ;)

I believe Janik's experience because you really never know about these drugs...I remember one poor woman had horrible insomnia over letting go of just 3 mgs. Valium in the support group at the end of her taper...I forgot what she started on.

She would give up too soon and take it again then try not to...very irregular and soon the 3 mgs. stopped working. I tried to tell her she did not give natural sleep enough time and she kept giving in to more Valium after a few days, then she'd get mad at herself and try to not take any. She never stayed on course. She stopped writing so I don't know what happened to her but she was in bad shape, passing out at work, losing her job, etc...all over 3 mgs. Valium!

So I know some of this is hard to believe but sometimes you never know. That's why I don't think the drugs should be taken so lightly. I know some people can take them and then leave them but it's such a risky business...like you said, if you had known how risky you wouldn't have chanced it. Neither would I have!

Your insomnia was different than mine's or Janiks. You would be so jealous of my sleep history I don't know if I should tell you about it. Well, suffice to say it was excellent. Benzos took that away. I got most of it back; at 3+ years off, it's not back to my pre-benzo sleep but that's ok as I am still, unbelievable as it would seem at this point, improving steadily. I remember once a very nice woman e-mailed me in the group, an old-timer who was back to normal sleep and said it took 5 years for that to happen for her....during that time, she began to sleep well, but it took longer for it to become consistant and whole again. In other words, back to old consistancy and reliability.

That's an aweful amount of time to have to wait for something that was taken away from you so needlessly. This is what is so disgusting about all this...needless suffering.

I think your insomnia is a different story. I hope after benzos you can do something to help it. I do know good diet and exercise really helps but I also know there can be more to it, so I hope you can figure it all out.

I don't know if I'm right, but it also sounds like the panic stuff is on it's way out with you. I think you've passed it up already; if any does appear again I'm sure it will be short lived. Hurray!!! :bouncing:

I think you were right about kelleigh; maybe should have stopped the klonopin sooner, but she has to do what she feels is best and she was also battling methadone problems. At least she has the information she needs now to get through everything ok....that does really make a difference.
howard and jennita thank you for all the information you 2 have shared when i first went on klonopin i think 3 to 4 weeks ago i never would have known how horrible this med no drug really was i would have been nieve to it just like to methadone i can't wait to go to my prescriber tuesday and see just how much she is aware of you 2 have educated me so much just by chatting back and forth see the problem with the klonopin they think it's an underlying anxiety disorder because tomorrow will be 3 months off methadone and i still have aniexty symptoms which some say is normal and some say is not i've reasearched and reasearched about methadone w/d and anxiety and all i find is conflicting research so i'm stuck do i have an anxiety disorder or is it still from the physchological w/d of methadone you 2 are so well educated if you could help me in that department i'd be greatful thank you 2 kelleigh :wave:
Quote from Karla:
I just quit using the duragesic patch. I have been on opiates for 5 years. I am having increased anxiety attachs also. My dr put me on a low dose of xanax for the anxiety and upped my antidepressent to also help. Good luck in staying of the methadone.

thank you karla what were you on the duragesic patch for
[QUOTE=no patience]howard and jennita thank you for all the information you 2 have shared when i first went on klonopin i think 3 to 4 weeks ago i never would have known how horrible this med no drug really was i would have been nieve to it just like to methadone i can't wait to go to my prescriber tuesday and see just how much she is aware of you 2 have educated me so much just by chatting back and forth see the problem with the klonopin they think it's an underlying anxiety disorder because tomorrow will be 3 months off methadone and i still have aniexty symptoms which some say is normal and some say is not i've reasearched and reasearched about methadone w/d and anxiety and all i find is conflicting research so i'm stuck do i have an anxiety disorder or is it still from the physchological w/d of methadone you 2 are so well educated if you could help me in that department i'd be greatful thank you 2 kelleigh :wave:

The answer is pretty simple. If you did not have anxiety before any drugs, methadone or whatever, it's not underlying because it never existed in the first place, it was drug-induced. If you did have previous problems before any intro to drugs, that previous panic issue could still be outdated/no longer relevant/has passed. So it will take some therapy and discovery to sort it all out if that's the case.
kayleigh, Hi...I feel great but I am not completely normal yet :) I do still get a little anxiety but less now that I am getting some sleep. The thing is that since I now know what it is , it doesn't scare me as much..I know yours might be much harder then mine but try to talking to yourself as they are happening..3 mo. is along time but you went c/t from 50mg. I would give it some more time..How often are you having the anxiety..are they attacks or are is it constant? mine come as attacks and last 10 to 20 minutes..
Jennita, I took your advice and only had to take a half of amitrypilene 1 night to sleep. My sleep came back exactly as you described. Minutes to half hours, half hours to hours..I am getting about 5 to 6 hours now and am extremely grateful.. before the withdraw I would have felt deprived with only 5 to 6 hous since I have always been one that loves my sleep and I demanded at least 8 hours..The only pill I now take is my thyroid med..I want to start exercising as I truly believe you know what you are talking about. I made an appointment 4 months ago ( the wait is that long ) to get a shock in the ear to quit smoking. The date just happens to be this tues.I have to fly to st. louis as this is the only place in u.s. to do it. Geez, if this works I will be completely free from any substance having some control over me..Suppose to have a 95% success rate..I found out about it on 20/20....I am so exicted. When I made the appointment I thought hey it might help me with the methadone also, I never thought I would be off of it before the appt. Gods plan for me was different then my own..So much thanks to you for all your knowledge..I am sure you will be needed on this board time and time again..hope you never get tired of helping people.Noone around me could imagine what I was going through. I wished I found this board early in my withdraws. I actually found myself on a pro mehadone board with people telling me to stay on it. It was completely safe on al body organs..Is the brain an organ..lol...Guess it isn't as important to them as it is to me.sorry post is so long..I am off to get my SLEPP>>hehe
Quote from DannDees:
kayleigh, Hi...I feel great but I am not completely normal yet :) I do still get a little anxiety but less now that I am getting some sleep. The thing is that since I now know what it is , it doesn't scare me as much..I know yours might be much harder then mine but try to talking to yourself as they are happening..3 mo. is along time but you went c/t from 50mg. I would give it some more time..How often are you having the anxiety..are they attacks or are is it constant? mine come as attacks and last 10 to 20 minutes..
Jennita, I took your advice and only had to take a half of amitrypilene 1 night to sleep. My sleep came back exactly as you described. Minutes to half hours, half hours to hours..I am getting about 5 to 6 hours now and am extremely grateful.. before the withdraw I would have felt deprived with only 5 to 6 hous since I have always been one that loves my sleep and I demanded at least 8 hours..The only pill I now take is my thyroid med..I want to start exercising as I truly believe you know what you are talking about. I made an appointment 4 months ago ( the wait is that long ) to get a shock in the ear to quit smoking. The date just happens to be this tues.I have to fly to st. louis as this is the only place in u.s. to do it. Geez, if this works I will be completely free from any substance having some control over me..Suppose to have a 95% success rate..I found out about it on 20/20....I am so exicted. When I made the appointment I thought hey it might help me with the methadone also, I never thought I would be off of it before the appt. Gods plan for me was different then my own..So much thanks to you for all your knowledge..I am sure you will be needed on this board time and time again..hope you never get tired of helping people.Noone around me could imagine what I was going through. I wished I found this board early in my withdraws. I actually found myself on a pro mehadone board with people telling me to stay on it. It was completely safe on al body organs..Is the brain an organ..lol...Guess it isn't as important to them as it is to me.sorry post is so long..I am off to get my SLEPP>>hehe

danndees my panic was everyday from feb 3 (when i quit methadone) until april 5 i was having attacks all the time i don't know if you read my other reply to you but i would end up going to wrong places like my primary doc instead of my pain doc and then driving 30 minutes to an appointment and saying to my self i don't have an appt today and turn around get half way home and reality would set in and i would say sh-t i do have one my panic was so bad i was taking it out on mydaughter and not meaning to she would ask the smallest questions and i'd start freaking out and going into an attack which i know the breathing technique but i had to do this over 6 times aday so finally i said my daughter can't suffer this anymore i feared for her because i drive her to school and take her many other places and did'nt want to have one with her in the car and end up off the road it was that bad that's why i have to take these stupid meds i don't want to but i'll see tomorrow if i need them long term if this is from the methadone i think i may have a few choice words for my primary doc for not weaning me properly oh one more thing i smoke also my councelor said i can't quit yet it may cause a set back but on wednesday i'm done with those to my boss and i are doing it together i cant believe some of the things we have in common i swear i have a long lost twin i'm so happy you're feeling better especially with no meds to today is day 90 for me and i'm still not doing 100 % but i envy you for doing so well after 17 days sorry so long luv kelleigh :angel: :wave:
howard i also wanted you to know that today is 90 days methadone free got rid of one med hopefully soon the rest will go to kelleigh :wave:
Quote from DannDees:
kayleigh, Hi...I feel great but I am not completely normal yet :) I do still get a little anxiety but less now that I am getting some sleep. The thing is that since I now know what it is , it doesn't scare me as much..I know yours might be much harder then mine but try to talking to yourself as they are happening..3 mo. is along time but you went c/t from 50mg. I would give it some more time..How often are you having the anxiety..are they attacks or are is it constant? mine come as attacks and last 10 to 20 minutes..
Jennita, I took your advice and only had to take a half of amitrypilene 1 night to sleep. My sleep came back exactly as you described. Minutes to half hours, half hours to hours..I am getting about 5 to 6 hours now and am extremely grateful.. before the withdraw I would have felt deprived with only 5 to 6 hous since I have always been one that loves my sleep and I demanded at least 8 hours..The only pill I now take is my thyroid med..I want to start exercising as I truly believe you know what you are talking about. I made an appointment 4 months ago ( the wait is that long ) to get a shock in the ear to quit smoking. The date just happens to be this tues.I have to fly to st. louis as this is the only place in u.s. to do it. Geez, if this works I will be completely free from any substance having some control over me..Suppose to have a 95% success rate..I found out about it on 20/20....I am so exicted. When I made the appointment I thought hey it might help me with the methadone also, I never thought I would be off of it before the appt. Gods plan for me was different then my own..So much thanks to you for all your knowledge..I am sure you will be needed on this board time and time again..hope you never get tired of helping people.Noone around me could imagine what I was going through. I wished I found this board early in my withdraws. I actually found myself on a pro mehadone board with people telling me to stay on it. It was completely safe on al body organs..Is the brain an organ..lol...Guess it isn't as important to them as it is to me.sorry post is so long..I am off to get my SLEPP>>hehe


Ha, yeh, why do people forget it's an organ and not just a bunch of emotions/feelings/thoughts? It's the grand master of the body, regulating things like our heartbeat and breathing....is it any wonder how meds screw with those things? Screw with the brain, and you screw with the body. For an example, when I've visited other boards, I have heard people on antidepressants complain about heart-racing and lack of satisfying breath after they would start the AD and still not get it. I'd even point out that those things are listed side effects. And as we know, the liver and kidneys bear the burden's of processing the drugs. So you are not alone in your wondering why people do not take their brain seriously in matters of the health of the body!

I don't recall corresponding with you but I am so happy I could help!!! I'm also glad to hear your sleep has come back. I've been told and also it has been my experience as well that it will continue to improve, even if it takes months/years. It will reach whatever level is required for health, whether it be 6 hours, 7 or 8. Everybody is different in the amount of sleep they need and it changes as people get older....my mother-in-law said since she got older, her average is 4 1/2 to 5 hours a night but it is enough and she feels good. Usually most of us need 7 hours in adulthood although 6 hours a night is considered normal sleep.

I'm so happy for your sleep victory! And yes, the exercise will help as we know in all areas of health, it will keep your blood pressure down and more.

Good luck with quiting smoking, oh boy, there's something that slowly killed my uncle over many years so I hope that technique works for you; I never heard of it but it sounds promising being on such a program as 20/20. I will keep trying to help people from time to time; now, with your experience you can easily do the same.... I truly believe that people can win this thing, no amount of lawsuits against drug companies concerning the negative effects/promises of psychoactive drugs will have the same power as people spreading the word of how unhealthy and damaging the drugs have been for them.

We also have to be grateful to such people and professionals who speak out like Anne Tracy, Peter Breggin, Joseph Glenmullen, Heather Ashton and other professionals/websites who help explain these drugs. Sometimes they do come on too strong but if you can look past that and really read what they know, it becomes clear that any drug that is a mind/mood drug has dangers, illegal and legal!
howard i know i'm a pain in the but but my dr visit yesterday they told me i deinitly have an underlying anxiety disorder i know your not a doctoe but how do they know its not from the methadone the told me it's social anxiety disorder and i'm asking you because i know you may have some other answers this whole klonopin thing just freaks me out i've actually cut back on the dose though and have noticed i get a bit anxious would that be from a w/d or is it to soon for that sorry to be a pain talk later kelleigh :)
[QUOTE=no patience]howard i know i'm a pain in the but but my dr visit yesterday they told me i deinitly have an underlying anxiety disorder i know your not a doctoe but how do they know its not from the methadone the told me it's social anxiety disorder and i'm asking you because i know you may have some other answers this whole klonopin thing just freaks me out i've actually cut back on the dose though and have noticed i get a bit anxious would that be from a w/d or is it to soon for that sorry to be a pain talk later kelleigh :)

One question: did you have the same problems/symptoms before the methadone? I mean actual symptoms, not life/emotional issues. If not, then it's not underlying, it's drug-induced. This underlying stuff is the same bull-puckey as the magical "unmasked" condition that happens when on a med.

For example, as howard mentioned, SSri's have the tendency to speed people up; if you get a bit too speedy it could resemble a manic episode, in which case the doctor will say the person was probably bi-polar all along and the SSRi simply "unmasked" the condition. Well, I wonder what was masking it before and why not just stop the substance that did the unmasking.........thereby lets just throw that mask back on, you know? Instead, they decide that they must now medicate the unmasked conditon with more drugs, this time it's for life.

So apparentely, people can be going around with such an illness as bi-polar and have no symptoms at all intil the introduction of an SSRi? That's plain retarded if you ask me and why would anyone buy into it......well, I'm sure they comb the person's past and manage to find some behavior or reaction to a life situation that fits their very broad criteria since mental disorders seem to have a zillion layers/degrees and almost any unsocial/acceptable behavior or habit may be able to be scrutinized as abnormal.

I'm sure there are legitamite mental cases out there, but in reality they are very rare. I believe some are drug (legal or illegal) induced, starvation or a trauma induced event from what I've read. Certainly, some disorders are not really disorders but reactions to life and hardships.....remove the hardships and the disorder is gone (unfortunately, some hardships are here to stay and sometimes we need to relearn how to react to life and expectations).

Social Anxiety is not uncommon since people have changed in these times. Most people are not trustworthy or truthful. Some are vengeful, violent, judgemental or downright mean. Some people expect way too much of others and like to make fun of others to boost their own egos. Of course, there are good souls still out there but weeding them out is very difficult. So no wonder there is such a thing as social anxiety, but I think it's more a social disease than a person disease!

But now everyone and their brother is on a med for this thing or that, and every problem, life situation or emotional feeling becomes a disorder. This is very profitable for the psychiatric and drug communities.

So, they are selling something..... now the question is, are you buying?
jennita and howard i did have a social thing before i was on methadone could never be around to many people i moved around alot as a kid and spent most of my life making new friends and then losing them needless to say i was shy of alot of social situations that i do remember even if it meant going to an aunt or uncles house for dinner i just did'nt want to go i was to embarassed and hated being the center of attention in any situation even if it was my how you've grown or whatever it maybe so as time moved on i still suffered in social situations like my husband would want me to go to dinner with his side of the family and i would dread it and make every excuse not to go but then i went on methadone lets just say it made me a totally different person i could talk to anyone any where any time go to any function you name it i was there i don't know if that is social anxiety or just the person i am i hate this situation because i feel like i'm going crazy do i have anxiety or don't i i know you can't answer that but this whole situation just seems like its never ending now i can barely even go out of my house anymore for work yeah i hate even going to my sisters or brothers house i have so many issues and have been looking to you 2 for guidance because you both are so well educated in this area and about the buying and the selling i have'nt purchased any thing yet with all i've read on these boards and all i've been through with drs i 'm losing complete faith in them thank you guys for caring enough to warn me though you guys have been great talk later kelleigh :yawn: :confused:i completly understand where you guys are coming from though it's awful they make a pill for everything i wish i was'nt so nieve to all them when ifirst started methadone for my chronic pain :blob_fire
Quote from howard678:
<klonopin thing just freaks me out i've actually cut back on the dose though and have noticed i get a bit anxious would that be from a w/d or is it to soon for that sorry to be a pain talk later kelleigh>>

You may be worrying too much. Heather Ashton says not to worry. I agree. Easier said than done, but work on it. Drug addiction is a pain and fear of the unknown is of the worst sort. Did we analyze every feeling, every ache and pain before drug addiction and reading all of the various opinions and experiences on the internet? Of course not. Fear can create symptoms or make moderate to mild anxiety (from drug withdrawal) much worse. Me, I have to take the bull by the horns, every day. I think it is important for you to get involved in your own recovery. Klonopin is a short term solution because of tolerance building. Stevie Knicks got up to 72 a day and still had no relief. But for now, why toy around with it? Either take it as prescribed or work out a tapering off schedule with your doctor. If you do not trust this doctor, find another one.


Quote from howard678:
<klonopin thing just freaks me out i've actually cut back on the dose though and have noticed i get a bit anxious would that be from a w/d or is it to soon for that sorry to be a pain talk later kelleigh>>

You may be worrying too much. Heather Ashton says not to worry. I agree. Easier said than done, but work on it. Drug addiction is a pain and fear of the unknown is of the worst sort. Did we analyze every feeling, every ache and pain before drug addiction and reading all of the various opinions and experiences on the internet? Of course not. Fear can create symptoms or make moderate to mild anxiety (from drug withdrawal) much worse. Me, I have to take the bull by the horns, every day. I think it is important for you to get involved in your own recovery. Klonopin is a short term solution because of tolerance building. Stevie Knicks got up to 72 a day and still had no relief. But for now, why toy around with it? Either take it as prescribed or work out a tapering off schedule with your doctor. If you do not trust this doctor, find another one.


Howard, do you have a link or some key words on the story concerning Stevie Knicks? I read one but it didn't mention how much she got up to in the one I read, I can't believe it was that high and she still had tolerance, wow!

Kelligh, you can't beat yourself up about the methadone because physical pain is something that needs to be addressed; people get into accidents or injuries calls for some pain control intil they heal; nobody expects someone to live with severe pain. But they should have not cold-turkeyed you off it should be tapered properly but that doesn't always happen since they don't take the drugs that seriously...if a person isn't wildly abusing them, or on some illegal drug like cocaine, they don't think there should be much problems. I don't quite understand this, other than maybe they think just because it's controlled by prescription? Sometimes severe pain calls for larger doses and that is when it gets harder to come off of it.
Quote from Jennita:
Howard, do you have a link or some key words on the story concerning Stevie Knicks? I read one but it didn't mention how much she got up to in the one I read, I can't believe it was that high and she still had tolerance, wow!

Kelligh, you can't beat yourself up about the methadone because physical pain is something that needs to be addressed; people get into accidents or injuries calls for some pain control intil they heal; nobody expects someone to live with severe pain. But they should have not cold-turkeyed you off it should be tapered properly but that doesn't always happen since they don't take the drugs that seriously...if a person isn't wildly abusing them, or on some illegal drug like cocaine, they don't think there should be much problems. I don't quite understand this, other than maybe they think just because it's controlled by prescription? Sometimes severe pain calls for larger doses and that is when it gets harder to come off of it.

i know they should'nt have c/ted me i know that's alot of the reason i'm still so messed up methadone w/d is pretty severe and you're right about the higher doses that's one of the reasons i decided to come off it although when i finally hit the right amount it alleviated every bit of pain i had i strongly believe if some one is one a high dose of methadone (which 50 is not high compared to what the methadone clinic gives out) and they take that away c/t it does damage specifically brain chemical i know i have underlying issues but coming off this had made it much worse and even though i'm on lexapro and klonopin i don't feel normal anymore and 3 months later i feel like methadone w/d took apart of me with it i know i'm going on and on but this is why i'm so worried about klonopin now and all the other crap i'm on and i guess that's why i do beat myself up alot because methadone w/d has put so much fear in me i don't know what my problem is anymore that's why when the dr told me social anxiety i probably did buy into it a little just to ease my mind and say ok you're not crazy sorry so long and probably did'nt make alot of sense but that's where i'm at right now thanks again you and howard have been great kelleigh :angel: :wave:
tell me i need to know what are these others sites you guys are talking about your peaking my curiousity. i can also understand that some people can't taper i didn't off of 50 mgs of methadone but i really wish they had because now i'm all screwed up my brain is still not balanced and just don't feel like a normal person. i thought they had to taper you off benzos i've read you can die or have seizures just curious kelleigh :dizzy:
[QUOTE=no patience]tell me i need to know what are these others sites you guys are talking about your peaking my curiousity. i can also understand that some people can't taper i didn't off of 50 mgs of methadone but i really wish they had because now i'm all screwed up my brain is still not balanced and just don't feel like a normal person. i thought they had to taper you off benzos i've read you can die or have seizures just curious kelleigh :dizzy:

With your current situation there would be little point in linking you to or naming other forums, IMO. Plus it cannot be done anyway as it is against the board guidelines here. You`ll get what you need on the net here, and as I told you, as someone that kicked methadone you`d be right at home in NA.

Seizures? More common when someone drops abruptly from high doses of benzos. From what I have read, seizures in such circumstances are not necessarily probable but they are far from uncommon. That is why if someone cold turkeys off they need to take anti-seizure medications for about the first week, when the biggest slam typically comes. Cold turkey I believe should be only the last resort, when all else fails, for the benzo addict.
you're right howard and i think more and more peolple should not sign away there right to be councelled by a pharmacist now every time i pick up any medication because i was so nieve to methadone i don't sign the little slip of paper and ask every single thing about it especially since i've been worned about klonopin(by you of course) kelleigh
Quote from howard678:
With your current situation there would be little point in linking you to or naming other forums, IMO. Plus it cannot be done anyway as it is against the board guidelines here. You`ll get what you need on the net here, and as I told you, as someone that kicked methadone you`d be right at home in NA.

Seizures? More common when someone drops abruptly from high doses of benzos. From what I have read, seizures in such circumstances are not necessarily probable but they are far from uncommon. That is why if someone cold turkeys off they need to take anti-seizure medications for about the first week, when the biggest slam typically comes. Cold turkey I believe should be only the last resort, when all else fails, for the benzo addict.

howard i id'nt really want to go on these sites iwas just curious of what they were all about because windsy man asked if jennita was a nimmo-ite and i did'nt know if he meant that in abad way or what. hope your doing well and can't believe my very first post has come to all this 32 pages of stuff i know nothing about but i'm glad it's here because i'm gaining so much knowledge in something i did'nt realize could be so harmful i thought methadone was a bad one but reading all this is making me realize the klonopin has got to go did'nt want to listen at first because it is helping me through a rough time but what will help me when i'm coming off that ? i always thought people got addicted to benzos because they gave you some kind of euphoric feeling guess i was wrong when i first took a klonopin i was like ok how is this addicting but reading all these posts now i completly understand i thank you all for that and talk to you soon you must be so proud of your self getting off these and doing it with out the aid of any ssri i give you so much credit chat soon friend kelleigh :wave:
[QUOTE=no patience]howard i id'nt really want to go on these sites iwas just curious of what they were all about because windsy man asked if jennita was a nimmo-ite and i did'nt know if he meant that in abad way or what. hope your doing well and can't believe my very first post has come to all this 32 pages of stuff i know nothing about but i'm glad it's here because i'm gaining so much knowledge in something i did'nt realize could be so harmful i thought methadone was a bad one but reading all this is making me realize the klonopin has got to go did'nt want to listen at first because it is helping me through a rough time but what will help me when i'm coming off that ? i always thought people got addicted to benzos because they gave you some kind of euphoric feeling guess i was wrong when i first took a klonopin i was like ok how is this addicting but reading all these posts now i completly understand i thank you all for that and talk to you soon you must be so proud of your self getting off these and doing it with out the aid of any ssri i give you so much credit chat soon friend kelleigh :wave:


Kelliegh,

Seems we all are in agreement here that your best line of defense in the benzo battle is Ashton. The other sites/support groups may be helpful but you need to take them with a grain of salt as we have seen. Nimmo is Ray's last name, the owner of one site, so if one was a nimmo-ite, well, I guess that means you are some sort of unholy spawn of his....ha....a joke, don't worry. Anyway, if you type in benzo withdrawal in a search, alot of informative sites will surely pop up. Major search engines are also a source of some formed support groups specific to benzos.

But it's Ashton that has the last word. Her work is truly a godsend. :angel:

Don't stay away too long! :wave:
[QUOTE=mise ata ann]Butting in here - Patience - by pure accidence I found my way into the AA rooms - never looked back and am still there today - stay away from users. Maybe you might find more sobriety in AA rooms - I just dont know. But dont give up - you WILL find something that will suit. I think Chef goes to AA. Ask Rosie too.
But you're doing everything right - plug on - you will get there in the end!
Mise
thanks mise any advice helps me don't worry about butting in if you can help someone with any advice that's great your good people thanks again mise nice meetin ya 97 days methadone free kelleigh
Quote from howard678:
I doubt this was a typical meeting. First report I have heard of being offered drugs at one...

i don't know how to take you'r response but unforunatly in this one it's the way it was i knew alot of the people there and let me tell you 30,60,or 90 days clean just wasn't so. i went with a friend when i first got off methadone and her and a bunch of people offered i wasn't saying the councelor did but let me tell you in this society it happens these people go there do all the drugs they want and a drug test is nothing to them if they are required to take one .when i looked up info on methadone you know what popped up how to beat a drug test i know you probably think this did'nt happen but come to pittsfield mass and find out it was a typical n/a meeting
[QUOTE=no patience]i don't know how to take you'r response but unforunatly in this one it's the way it was i knew alot of the people there and let me tell you 30,60,or 90 days clean just wasn't so. i went with a friend when i first got off methadone and her and a bunch of people offered i wasn't saying the councelor did but let me tell you in this society it happens these people go there do all the drugs they want and a drug test is nothing to them if they are required to take one .when i looked up info on methadone you know what popped up how to beat a drug test i know you probably think this did'nt happen but come to pittsfield mass and find out it was a typical n/a meeting

I`m not going to invest alot of energy in debating this one. Will about benzos, to my last breathe as the evidence on that topic is scientific and vast, and the stakes are very high. Do not go to NA if you do not wish to. Your choice as is everything else discussed on this thread. I have been to some small NA meetings with a friend, no drug using, all quite serious about staying clean. There are also members on the net that seem as serious about recovery as people on here. But surely there are people in NA and AA that are court ordered and not serious. That woud not concern me however. I would not be there for them but for my recovery, and am sure I could find others like myself.
hi howard i need some encouragement my pain dr prescribed me vicodin about a month ago for pain and would not take it i just dealt with the pain and cried alot especially after work so last night a took a vicodin and feel like i ruined everything i'm coming to you because i just know you'll tell me the right thing and wont sugar coat it please help me i need a friend right now i'm so down in the dumps for doing this i ruined 100 plus days off methadone and feel like a failure thanks howard post me back kelleigh :o
[QUOTE=no patience]hi howard i need some encouragement my pain dr prescribed me vicodin about a month ago for pain and would not take it i just dealt with the pain and cried alot especially after work so last night a took a vicodin and feel like i ruined everything i'm coming to you because i just know you'll tell me the right thing and wont sugar coat it please help me i need a friend right now i'm so down in the dumps for doing this i ruined 100 plus days off methadone and feel like a failure thanks howard post me back kelleigh :o

Hey Kelleigh :)

I do not know what to say because I do not have much experience with opiates. I have taken them (hydros and percocets) but never developed tolerance to them. I`ve read some horror stories. Know a few people that got hooked on them, but they came off and the withdrawals were brief and not real intense. I am not at all happy with the idea of you living out your life with chronic severe back pain. First, do not beat yourself up about taking the Vicodin. That serves no useful purpose. Second, look to others with more exerience in this area for solutions. Hugs my friend.
Kelliegh,

Just my observation. I think you may have too much going at once here, chronic pain, withdrawals from methadone that seem to be persisting, panic episodes, and concerns about Klonopin, all while working. Do you have private disability insurance? If so, I suggest seeing if your doctor will assist in filing a claim. May well fly with the chronic pain. If not, you can make a claim with your state and getting payments may not take more than 3 months. We must do all we can to reduce stress. I have no private disability plan, have no immediate plans to make a state claim, but will be changing jobs and perhaps taking a few months off at the end of the summer.
Quote from howard678:
Kelliegh,

Just my observation. I think you may have too much going at once here, chronic pain, withdrawals from methadone that seem to be persisting, panic episodes, and concerns about Klonopin, all while working. Do you have private disability insurance? If so, I suggest seeing if your doctor will assist in filing a claim. May well fly with the chronic pain. If not, you can make a claim with your state and getting payments may not take more than 3 months. We must do all we can to reduce stress. I have no private disability plan, have no immediate plans to make a state claim, but will be changing jobs and perhaps taking a few months off at the end of the summer.

HI HOWARD I THOUGHT ABOUT DISABILITY BUT HERE IN MASS IT'S VERY HARD TO GET I WATCHED MY VERY SICK MOTHER STRUGGLE TO GET IT FOR ATLEAST A YEAR AND FINALLY SHE HAD TO HIRE A LAWYER WHICH TOOK EVEN LONGER SHE FINALLY GOT IT AND GOT A MEASLY 16,OOO TO LAST THE REST OF HERE LIFE BUT UNFORTUNATLY SHE PASSED AWAY 4 WEEKS AFTER SHE FINALLY GOT IT I KNOW I HAVE ALOT GOING ON AT ONCE BUT ANOTHER THING HOLDING ME BACK FROM THAT IS MY BOSS IS RETIRING SOON AND SHE IS GIVING ME HER BUSINESS I PROBABLY SHOULD GO ON IT BUT IF I DID I DON'T KNOW IT WOULD'NT FEEL RIGHT TO ME I DON'T KNOW WHY BUT ON TO YOU YOUR SWITCHING JOBS SOUNDS GREAT YOU'RE TAKING SOME TIME OFF YOU NEED IT YOU ALSO HAVE ALOT ON YOUR PLATE RIGHT NOW IF YOU DON'T MIND MY ASKING WHAT IS IT YOU DO? IT JUST SOUNDS SO STRESSFUL I BET YOU'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THE END OF THE SUMMER THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT HOWARD YOU ARE A GREAT FRIEND HUGS TO YOU CHAT WITH YOU LATER HUGS KELLEIGH :angel: :) :wave:
Quote from Jennita:
Hi Kelligh! Sometimes I skip the boards a few days if I'm doing alot. I'm doing really good, thanks for asking! :wave:

I wouldn't worry too much about the Vicodin. From what I know, they are not as bad as benzos in the sense of long-term withdrawals. But just take them as dosed for pain, as as sparingly as you can manage. Pain is not something you can control and nobody would expect you to wrathe around in it! It's really only when pain pills become a source of euphoria and not pain-relief that is termed real "addictive behavior" anyway!

Isn't there something that can be done about your back pain? Chiropractic? Surgery? My mother-in-law had a nerve which caused horrible back pain, and she had some procedure done which basically killed the nerve itself so she's ok now but that was only one nerve problem so it doesn't apply to all back pain.

Anyway, point is, I would look into getting rid of the pain if it's possible in your case?

hi jennita good to hear from you missed ya unfortunatly my pain is caused by 2 bulging discs and arthritis of my spine i can have surgery but my pain dr says it's to soon whatever that means i acually did go to a chiropractor and ended up in worse pain after words i only took one vicodin i'm just kind of nervous to go further because the w/ds of methadone remain in my nightmares forever i'm just considering taking the vicodin cause my pain really gets unbearable i have a contract with my pain dr and a pill count is one of the arrangements so i can't abuse them or tough luck i don't know if you would know about this but can you mix opiates and benzos seeing how one is an upper and one is a downer i'm just so confused right now the pain is just really getting to me and i'm considering switching pain clinics due to my dr not being there when i need him the most glad to hear you're doing well and nice to hear from you again kelleigh :)
Kayleigh,

I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.
Quote from howard678:
Kayleigh,

I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.

hi howard i was put on methadone for my back pain they also use it for moderate to severe pain i first was on vicodin but it wears off to quickly when you hurt 24/7it's not that great of a pain killer to be on so my primary dr put me on methadone because it has a half life of 24 hrs(which is why it's the worst opiate to kick the w/ds last 3 to 5 wks and then you get the physchological which kicks your a$$ more than the physical) and lasts 12 hrs ive told my drs about what medications i'm on but they have'nt said anything i took my self off methadone because over 2 years time my tolerance went from 5 mgs to 50 and i just did'nt want to be at 100 by the time i was 40 as much as you despise benzos i despise methadone i know it helps people that are recovering heroin addicts but coming off this drug really screws up your life especially if your not weaned properly like me 50 to 0 that's alot of the reason why i'm on an ssri and klonopin they say i have social anxiety also but now i have a kind of panic disorder all due to this crappy drug to put it mildly it's totally screwed my head up i feel like this drug took pieces of me with it and will never be the same again sorry so long just venting :blob_fire i did'nt mean to get all into this just meant to tell you why they put me on it and when i talk about it it just really gets me going i know this w/d probably doesnt compare to benzo w/d but let me tell you it's my own private nightmare thanks for letting me vent your good people hope your job is going ok and not to stressful it's something you don't need right now either hugs kelleigh :)
Quote from howard678:
Kayleigh,

I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.


I don't think I said Vicodins were uppers; they are narcotics, right? I think they are technically downers like all opiates. I can't find any detailed info on Vicodin about any caffiene in them. I know OTC pain relievers sometimes have caffeine; mainly for headaches because caffeine helps headaches.


Actually, Kelligh, you should make sure your doctor thinks it's ok to take the Vicodin occassionally because you are on other drugs which could interact unfavorably!

Are you on Klonopin and Zoloft....I forgot exactly. I agree with Howard about the social anxiety. To me, your main issue has been pain and that is the most important.....how many of us could function well with alot of pain? It's not possible.

The anxiety issues, etc. could be worked out without meds for all they know but now they have just complicated your physical problems with all these extra meds. I would try eventually to get off the psychiatric meds and concentrate on steps to get your pain under control. I bet if you felt better physically, your mental state may change for the better. I hope you can find a doctor who will be more aggressive with treating your physical problems.
Quote from Jennita:
I don't think I said Vicodins were uppers; they are narcotics, right? I think they are technically downers like all opiates. I can't find any detailed info on Vicodin about any caffiene in them. I know OTC pain relievers sometimes have caffeine; mainly for headaches because caffeine helps headaches.


Actually, Kelligh, you should make sure your doctor thinks it's ok to take the Vicodin occassionally because you are on other drugs which could interact unfavorably!

Are you on Klonopin and Zoloft....I forgot exactly. I agree with Howard about the social anxiety. To me, your main issue has been pain and that is the most important.....how many of us could function well with alot of pain? It's not possible.

The anxiety issues, etc. could be worked out without meds for all they know but now they have just complicated your physical problems with all these extra meds. I would try eventually to get off the psychiatric meds and concentrate on steps to get your pain under control. I bet if you felt better physically, your mental state may change for the better. I hope you can find a doctor who will be more aggressive with treating your physical problems.

hi jennita i actually spoke to my dr today and nixed the vicodin he wants to put me on a fentynal patch which yes is another narcotic i'm the one that mentioned vicodin being an upper i always thought they were because of the euphoria they gave but i could be wrong i also mentioned to him today just to remind him that i was on other meds and he expressed no concern but i am glad to say i have taken no klonopin today and don't feel crappy but i know klonopin has a 50 hr half life so that could be it i actually did slowly cut my dose down though for the past couple weeks i am still on lexapro though which i think i'll ride out for awhile cause i don't want to stop to many things at once i'm gonna have to do some research on this patch i used it to wean off methadone it was suppose to ease the w/ds (yeah right) everthing just makes me so nervous now but i learn to control that thanks for your support kelleigh
Quote from howard678:
Thanks Kelleigh. I`ve basically become a homebound taperer. The rest is a good thing but I do not like the funky dreams, and staying home for a while makes it harder to get back in the groove once you start to get back out to function. Nonetheless, we have to accept the things we cannot change. The human body is one fine piece of equipments with it`s own internal alarms. It lets you know when to back off, and if that angers anyone that is too bad. How long would they mourn for me? :rolleyes: Unlike some, I am lucky to have rent money and cable to watch cheesy movies on. When push comes to shove, health has to come first. Without that, you are nowhere anyways. Thank you for being here. :)

your welcome howard you were always there for me when i asked you like 100s of questions hope your doing ok and hope you're just kicking back i feel really bad i wish there was something i could do for you i can't wait until this is just a memory for you you definitly deserve a break i still give you so much credit in doing this all on your own with no aid what so ever but it's great you and your body realized it's time for a break sorry about the funky dreams had some myself coming off methadone lets just say i did'nt tell anyone about them because they would think i was crazy lol post when you feel up to ok hang in there i wish i could say if you need anything just let me know but it's a little hard over the internet lol you may not feel the greatest but you're doing a great job so many people would of given up and you have'nt that's a wonderful thing take care ok hugs kelleigh :angel: p.s back on klonopin panic came back i hate myself :blob_fire
hi jenitta i wish i could say i was off klonopin but i'm not i tried to get off it but started having panic attacks again i guess i picked the right name for my very first thread on her when does it end i know gettin of the antidepressant is gonna be the easy part before they put me on lexapro i weaned off effexor with no problems at all i know the klonopin gonna be the toughy i don't know if the panic was part of w/d or what my my dr got pretty upset with me when i told her i tried to wean myself of it i'm so scared now i went through methadone w/which was a living nightmare and now being so nieve i'll have to suffer through klonopin w/d sorry to ramble on just venting thank for listening kelleigh
[QUOTE=no patience]hi jenitta i wish i could say i was off klonopin but i'm not i tried to get off it but started having panic attacks again i guess i picked the right name for my very first thread on her when does it end i know gettin of the antidepressant is gonna be the easy part before they put me on lexapro i weaned off effexor with no problems at all i know the klonopin gonna be the toughy i don't know if the panic was part of w/d or what my my dr got pretty upset with me when i told her i tried to wean myself of it i'm so scared now i went through methadone w/which was a living nightmare and now being so nieve i'll have to suffer through klonopin w/d sorry to ramble on just venting thank for listening kelleigh

Oh, I didn't think you were off yet, just tapering. Withdrawals happen while tapering, so I wondered.

Have you tapered down the dose at all? I think I remember you saying you tried to skip a dose.....that's not good, you must taper down the dose instead. No wonder you didn't get too far, you can't just quit like that.....not even one dose. You need to take doses as usual, only cutting it down.

Hope you are still trying to take less of it, tapering should be slow, like around 10% cut only and no sooner than every two weeks.
Quote from howard678:
Kelleigh,

Why did you stop the Effexor?

hi howard i was put on effexor about a year ago and it just wasn't doing it's job so my primary wanted to up and my councelor said noway because i was already on 150 mgs so when i was going through methadone w/ds they either belief that it wasn't working or being on methadone was masking certain side effects that i had. when i came off methadone they played process of elimanation so when i bagan to have panic attacks they were not sure if it was from the effexor or coming off methadone because they were puzzled at first because the anxiety and panic was lasting so long and there are alot of drs out there that don't like effexor and my councelor just happened to be one of them some people that take it can just not get off it thanks god i did. hope how are you doing howard hope you're time off is aiding you in your recovery caht with you soon hugs kelligh :angel:
[QUOTE=no patience]hi howard i was put on effexor about a year ago and it just wasn't doing it's job so my primary wanted to up and my councelor said noway because i was already on 150 mgs so when i was going through methadone w/ds they either belief that it wasn't working or being on methadone was masking certain side effects that i had. when i came off methadone they played process of elimanation so when i bagan to have panic attacks they were not sure if it was from the effexor or coming off methadone because they were puzzled at first because the anxiety and panic was lasting so long and there are alot of drs out there that don't like effexor and my councelor just happened to be one of them some people that take it can just not get off it thanks god i did. hope how are you doing howard hope you're time off is aiding you in your recovery caht with you soon hugs kelligh :angel:

Kelleigh,

Sounds like you were on the maximum dose of Effexor. Did it work against your panic or anxiety? Or was it mostly prescribed for depression? My doc wants me on it, the sustained release version. In my research it gets some of the best reviews of the ADs for addressing anxiety and panic states, and the stimulating effects are reported to subside faster than the others, within a few days. The benefits are said to come much faster. But some have reported a nasty withdrawal syndrome lasting about 3 weeks. I have resisted thus far as I have yet to see the necessity. But will admit that I would be one more prone to take gambles (short term use) as I very much need to work. If I did not have to work, I would come off the Valium safely but as quickly as possible then wait it out. The little Valium I take now does very little.
hi howard my dr actually put me on it for depression in the beginning i was on 37.5 and it wasn't doing much then 75 which worked out pretty well but then i started feeling kind of blue again and having trouble sleeping so he upped it again to tell you the truth i was taking this on methadone and i know methadone can kind of stop depression in itself so i coul'dnt tell you if it was working or not but i've read so many success storys abou this stuff changing peoples lifes unfortunatly for me when i stopped methadone it just was'nt doing anything for my anxiety and as you know with w/d comes complete lonliness so there were so many things going on they thought maybe to much serotonin maybe it just wasn't working anymore and you know the rest so they switched me to lexapro i weaned off of effexor without any problems i just had one incident when i was still weaning on a high dose and forgot to take it and felt lets just say crazy but again i had been on it for a year or so so it was in my system pretty good my dr did mention that it has a very high success rate and i never had any w/d symptoms coming off it and my wean was'nt that long either i know you're not to happy with these medications but if you discover you want to try it and it just doe'snt settle right with you you can stop i'm sure you're really pondering this one what ever decision you make i hope you at least consider trying something i know you don't like them to put it mildly but you don't have to stay on it forever just short term until you feel a little better i'm not trying to tell you what to do by all means but without lexapro i still be laying on my couch in lonliness good luck lets hear what you decide ok hope you're doing ok hugs to kelleigh
howard got another question for you(sorry to keep bothering you) does klonopin give you an increased appetite when i went through methadone w/d i lost like 20 lbs and since i've been on klonopin all i want to do is eat i never was a big eater either and lets just say the 20 lbs is back thanks howard you're the best hugs kelleigh :wave: :) :angel:
my problem is no one detoxes off of methadone right....you have to drop 5 mg every two weeks and then when you are off/off, a suggestion is clonidine snd trazadone to help sleep....there should be little if no discomfort...everyone seems to think they can take 30mg and stop tomorrow and they should be fine....it doesnt work that way.....chef
:angel: :angel: :angel: hi howard please be ok i've had an awful few weeks howard my boss hired a new girl who later we find out is in to drugs which is her decision i never judge people but the one thhing i did judge her for was she took it upon her self to go into my purse an help her self to 24 of my methadone and 15 of my clonzapam is'nt that nice well i filed a police report and the could'nt do anything because noone saw her do it well the police report aided me in getting my methadone back i did'nt really care about the clonzapam cause i don't really use it any more but we have been trying to set her up for the last week and it's just not working maybe she figures she over did her self i don't know so enough of me how are you i really miss you i know it sounds corny but you have become a very special friend i sincerly care how your taper is going and how you are feeling i wish i could take it all away i feel you've suffered enough well even if you don't post i hope you read this just to let you know i'm still thinking of you prayers and hugs love kelleigh
hi i had to chime in . I have posted on this topic a little im a terrible typist and speller so i cant get my piont across to well . but i have been on ssri,s for years [off now]i had terrible w/d;s i stress think serriously before starting med therapy, talk or group therapy should be first.ok trazadone did not help for sleep , made me feel odd, and i stoped taking it when i got that male side affect prolonged and painful erection.needless to say no more trazadone.but i think if it works and no side affects good for you.today i dont sleep to well because of back surgerys[long story]and take methadone for pain and opiate dependancy . i love this board wish i could type faster thanks to all of you for so much good advice and carring[sp]. Andy
hi welcome to the boards andyarj sorry if i misspelled that sounds like you had an awful experience with trazadone it's amazing how different people are when i was going through methadone w/ds i would never have slept w/o it i made it 4 months w/o methadone and tried everything from ultram to fentynal you name it i tried it unfortunatly i'm back on methadone it's for chronic pain the w/d i went through i will never forget it remains in my nightmares forever i have degenerative disc disease and 2 bulging discs what did you have back surgery for well it's nice meeting you and again welcome post back soon kelleigh :wave: :angel:
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