Quote from howard678:Jennita,
It is refreshing finding someone like yourself that can stand some disagreement without getting defensive and personal. :-) Kay Leigh`s case is not easy as opiates and panic issues are also on the table, so what may be quickly attributed to benzos may be something else. I hate these drugs as much as anyone but insist on trying to be objective. Some of this relates to my academic training.
I think a lot of tapering problems are related to the fear of tapering rather than the tapering itself. Ashton alludes to this. I feel it but cut 1.25 mgs a week and remain thus far plenty functional. And "plenty functional" is my definition of stable. And have no plans of taking 20 weeks to bust out the last 10 mgs, though I remain open minded on it. Stringing out a taper too long leaves one more prone to get hit more and more from two directions, reduction and tolerance withdrawals.
I have a hard time personally viewing insomnia as a withdrawal symptom. The problem is no worse now than it was 10 years ago, long before benzos. I recall Janik, and no offense to him if he reads this, speaking of taking 5 months to taper off of .25 mgs of Xanax, this over insomnia. That is unimagineable to me. That equates to 5 mgs of Valium. I know it is relative to some degree by that is just not much benzo. I plan to take the plunge at 2 or 3 mgs, especially if I am already feeling it, see no point in tapering pinches that only partially postpone the inevitable, some discomfort for a while.
As to Kay Leigh, well I think the discussion regarding her tapering will probably prove moot in the end, as I strongly suspect she will take her doctor`s advice and keep taking her pretty high dose of Klonopin for a while long, and then will need to taper. My suggestion I guess about 10 days ago was to ditch the stuff but I do not think that is going to happen. I never had a panic attack pre-benzo. Last one I had was in detox last Nov. I think some of the reason is that I am no longer afraid of them. I used to think they were heart attacks but all my tests in that area are normal. I know what they are, what they feel like, and what they can and cannot do. If I have one, I`ll just have it and if by chance I am in public I will excuse myself for a while. I am not looking for them or expecting them.
Thanks, howard. Well, we all have our individual views, experiences, and collection of information. For example, if you don't like Breggin, that's ok although I think he's a pioneer; Dr. Ann Tracy has been warning about SSRi's, inaccurate disclosures in clinical testing, etc. for 14 years now finally the mainstream media and the FDA have discovered it for themselves so I admire her too but you don't have to just because I do....but we both have Ashton so at least that's something, huh? ;)
I believe Janik's experience because you really never know about these drugs...I remember one poor woman had horrible insomnia over letting go of just 3 mgs. Valium
in the support group at the end of her taper...I forgot what she started on.
She would give up too soon and take it again then try not to...very irregular and soon the 3 mgs. stopped working. I tried to tell her she did not give natural sleep enough time and she kept giving in to more Valium
after a few days, then she'd get mad at herself and try to not take any. She never stayed on course. She stopped writing so I don't know what happened to her but she was in bad shape, passing out at work, losing her job, etc...all over 3 mgs. Valium
So I know some of this is hard to believe but sometimes you never know. That's why I don't think the drugs should be taken so lightly. I know some people can take them and then leave them but it's such a risky business...like you said, if you had known how risky you wouldn't have chanced it. Neither would I have!
Your insomnia was different than mine's or Janiks. You would be so jealous of my sleep history I don't know if I should tell you about it. Well, suffice to say it was excellent. Benzos took that away. I got most of it back; at 3+ years off, it's not back to my pre-benzo sleep but that's ok as I am still, unbelievable as it would seem at this point, improving steadily. I remember once a very nice woman e-mailed me in the group, an old-timer who was back to normal sleep and said it took 5 years for that to happen for her....during that time, she began to sleep well, but it took longer for it to become consistant and whole again. In other words, back to old consistancy and reliability.
That's an aweful amount of time to have to wait for something that was taken away from you so needlessly. This is what is so disgusting about all this...needless suffering.
I think your insomnia is a different story. I hope after benzos you can do something to help it. I do know good diet and exercise really helps but I also know there can be more to it, so I hope you can figure it all out.
I don't know if I'm right, but it also sounds like the panic stuff is on it's way out with you. I think you've passed it up already; if any does appear again I'm sure it will be short lived. Hurray!!! :bouncing:
I think you were right about kelleigh; maybe should have stopped the klonopin
sooner, but she has to do what she feels is best and she was also battling methadone
problems. At least she has the information she needs now to get through everything ok....that does really make a difference.