Hello Norco. I think you read my post on a different thread but in case you did'nt here goes. The Sub was'nt an intense W/D but it was long lasting (like methadone). I felt real bad for weeks and did'nt sleep, had depression and that feeling of malaise. I still have a shakey hand even after 50 days. I don't know what to think of Sub at this point. Is it really a better drug?