Drug List > Ultracet

Discussions that mention Ultracet.

View posts only related to

Back Problems board

  1. don't know what dr to go to!!!!!
    ... that same day to check my kidneys and i also take ultracet on a daily basis and that had to be checked as well...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Cyclobenzaprine Mobic

  2. 3 Months Post C5-6 Fusion and still sore, stiff after PT suggestions?
    ... plates, glue, stitches and non narcotic meds. I did try ultracet , but it did not offer any relief. Thanks again for...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Hydrocodone

  3. Chronic back pain
    ... within minutes of taking the stuff. Such as ultram, ultracet , percocet, etc. I have to take a light-hitter pain...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet Ultram Vicodin

  4. hurting
    ... and am curious as to what everyone's taking. I'm on Ultracet - three a day. Like the others have said, I sure...

  5. New to Back Pain
    ... that's because of my posture. My doctor has me on Ultracet (don't know the dosage) every 6-8 hours. Unfortunately...

  6. 6 week Post Op Appt Fusion/Laminectomy
    ... much and still control your pain. Percs, ultram, ultracet .. that whole line.. makes me hurl almost immediately...
    ... [QUOTE=Justoneofus;3300016]Percs, ultram, ultracet .. that whole line.. makes me hurl almost immediately...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Ultram Endocet Morphine Percocet Vicodin

  7. L4/L5/S1 two level fusion, pain, and pregnancy?
    ... patches, Hydrocodone, and Tylenol PM. Gabapentin gel and Ultracet were tossed out. The pain machine stayed. My neuro...
    ... are kept on their pain meds - several a day. 3) Ultracet (Ultram) was milder than Hydrocodone, of course, but...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Hydrocodone Tylenol lidoderm gabapentin Celebrex Neurontin Ultram

  8. Chronic pain and doctor cut me off
    ... suffering because I am. I am allergic to ultram or ultracet and tylenol 3 as well and have stomach ulcers and...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet Tylenol Ultram Vicodin

  9. After 3 surgeries, what should I do next?
    ... last time I talked to my surgeon, I had a reaction to Ultracet and she told me that I better be careful, because...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Morphine

  10. Side effect to pain killers
    ... question, I had been taking pain killers Darvocet, Ultracet , Percocet for the last 6 years. After 1 failed surgery...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet

  11. Harmony Surgery
    ... Harmony.. I can not take percs or ultram, ultracet .. these all make me hurl! I am very med sensitive...
    ... 2895175]Harmony.. I can not take percs or ultram, ultracet .. these all make me hurl! I am very med sensitive...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Morphine Ultram Vicodin

  12. Newbie Here
    ... Doc gave me pain meds - Soma, Skelaxin, Vicodin & Ultracet . I alternate between them depending on level of pain...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet Robaxin Skelaxin Soma Vicodin

  13. Newbie/Ultram
    ... I took Ultracet for about a week when I was in a lot of pain. It's...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tylenol Ultram Vicodin

  14. pretty new hear but i need to vent (sorry)
    ... amatriptalyne to sleep. I have been on nothing but ultracet and flexeril for the past three years. Last night...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Vicodin

  15. laminectomy, pros and cons
    ... day , 2-3 day off cycle. they had also prescribed ultracet , but i have limited that to 1/4 of the dosage when...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Celebrex

  16. Need help in understanding my MRI report....
    ... Yes. I am on Neurontin, Vicodin, and Ultracet . I have been taking these meds for about the last...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Neurontin Vicodin

  17. Results from Dr. visit wednesday
    ... my body will tolerate. I can't take percs, ultram, ultracet , and morophine does not work well for me either. ...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Methadone Neurontin Ultram Vicodin lyrica

  18. how much pain meds do you take
    ... taking 300 mg of Neurontin since June. Now I'm on Ultracet extended release 100mg (three at a time). Just started...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Neurontin Oxycodone Valium

  19. Dang it! Grrr...Why Won't this pain go away?
    ... Hope it helps. I'm running out of Percocet. The Ultracet did nothing. Sit your husband down and explain the...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet Valium

  20. Take a moment. Help. Pain never controlled.
    ... talked about pain meds. I told them percs, ultram, ultracet , .. they all make me very sick. I used to take tylenol...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab Tylenol Ultram Vicodin

  21. Anyone get pain at the middle of your back!!
    ... new spa and the pain in back is real bad. I take ultracet , 2 in morning with aleve for the last month and a...
    Medications also discussed in this post: aleve

  22. UPDATE - Good and Unknowns
    ... me on methadone. I can't take percocets, ultram, ultracet , oxy.. they all make me hurl. But he decided to see...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Methadone Neurontin Percocet Ultram Cymbalta lyrica

  23. Newbie-2 months out of fusion on L5 S1
    ... weight laying around these past two months. I'm taking Ultracet wich is non narcotic I believe. It is time released...

  24. EMG/Spinal stenosis
    ... sensitive to all of them. i do take a flexeral and an ultracet on occassion if it's really bad....

  25. Where should I turn to?
    ... xtra 2 weeks of severe pain, back then all I had was ultracet ). The ortho surgeon wanted all sorts of tests because ... All of a sudden, I wasn't crying in pain 24 hrs w/ ultracet . But most important than that, she told me that it...

  26. Methadose side effect - HELP!
    ... better with you. I can't tolerate percoset, ultram, ultracet .. etc. those all make me throw up even on low dose...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Ultram

  27. toe pain
    ... due to being on too long,any suggestions?any meds?my ultracet doesn't help it much,but my back seems better.going...
    Medications also discussed in this post: naprosyn

  28. Intro and a few questions
    ... ve taken all of the nerve medication on the market; UltraCet , Lyrica, Cymbalta, there was one other that started...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Cymbalta lyrica

  29. Lyrica for Nerve Pain?
    ... Tammy, I tried Lyrica a while ago, then was on Ultracet , and now have some Lyrica again--all as breakthrough...
    ... iscontinued them since neither were helping me. I tried the Ultracet and that wasn't helping me either. That would...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab lyrica Cymbalta

  30. Update from two steps back thread
    ... whammy me, even in slight doses. I can't take ultram, ultracet , percocet.. they all make me hurl. But in taking...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Neurontin Percocet Ultram lyrica

  31. sciatic nerve
    ... help the pain of a sciatic nerve episode? i'm taking ultracet 2/day but doesn't seem to be helping much. my back...
    ... alternating between heat and ice. seems when i take my ultracet about 2 hrs. before going to bed i can have my best...
    ... help the pain of a sciatic nerve episode? i'm taking ultracet 2/day but doesn't seem to be helping much. my back...

  32. Adjusting to New Med: Ultram
    ... Also, FYI, there is a newer version of it called Ultracet . It's 37.5 mg and contains Tylenol. That's what...
    ... not know that itchy was a side effect of ultram or ultracet . Those along with percocet.. make me hurl. Not even...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tylenol Percocet Ultram

  33. Ultram vs. Lortab
    ... for another. Also, some doc's will start out with Ultracet , which is a less dose 37.5 mg versus 50 mg that is ... with tylenol. Since tylenol doesn't work for me, the Ultracet was like taking nothing for me, but the Ultram is...
    ... seizures, I would strongly urge you NOT to take ultram or ultracet . I have taken neuronton and topomax for pain for...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab Tylenol Ultram lidoderm

  34. both legs now? Not sure what to do until I see Dr
    ... probably read that the Ultram work for me, but the Ultracet does not. The Ultracet has less of the active ingredient...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tylenol Ultram Vicodin

  35. Countdown to TLIF ... Lots of Questions
    ... helping the pain -- not Lidoderm, TENS unit, Vicoden or Ultracet . What's a realistic amount of pain medicine people...
    Medications also discussed in this post: lidoderm

  36. What to do? . . . What to do?
    ... along with the occasional free sample of Ultram or Ultracet . Since I began seeing my Rehab doc she put me on regular...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Norco Oxycontin Tylenol Ultram Vicodin

  37. New and needing advice
    ... kept almost falling down. Tried lortab, lorcet, and ultracet for pain but nothing...I'm always in pain and now...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab Neurontin

  38. Morphine pump implant
    ... sweats/perspiration as I have experienced that with ultracet between doses..so hopefully it won't be worse..that ... just hate the idea of narcotics..but now with the ultracet just not helping the pain, I've been starting to take...
    Medications also discussed in this post: actiq

  39. last hope for now
    ... the headaches, ask your Dr. to start you out with Ultracet . It is a lesser dose of Tromadol w/ tylonol med....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Ultram

  40. Pain Med Question
    ... prescribing it; it is called Ultram....also known as ultracet , or tramadol. Since you aren't used to narcotics it...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Codeine Tramadol Tylenol Ultram

  41. Ultram Warning
    ... after you have one!!! At the very least, alternate Ultracet (which is just Tramadol w/ tylenol) w/ something else...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tramadol Tylenol

  42. Spinal Headache Etc...
    ... addiction can get addicted even to Ultram. I did try Ultracet which contains tylenol and a little less of the pain...
    ... and I will Definitaly will talk to the doc about the Ultracet and this headache. Thanks again for your caring...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab Percocet Tylenol Ultram lidoderm

  43. Pain and Depression:bouncing:
    ... safe from having a problem with Ultram. Tried the Ultracet which is a lesser strength mixed with Tylenol, but...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Elavil Tylenol Ultram lidoderm

  44. Pain
    ... It's a mad rush to the medicine cabinent... I take Ultracet and Skelaxin... they don't do much for the pain.....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Skelaxin

  45. Reactions to steroid injections
    ... injection spot. I hope this works. I am tired of taking Ultracet every night. It works on the pain, but keep me up ... increase the dosage from 1 to 2 pills to get relifef. The ultracet seems to have an anti depressant effect on me which...

  46. Ultracet for pain
    ... Ultracet is a non narcotic that acts similar to a narcotic ... Roxicodone 3-4X daily. I've heard that getting off Ultracet is hard. I was on it for a v ery short time. Be careful...
    ... I too was on ultracet for the pain and when I stopped taking it, the doc...
    ... I'm Taking Ultracet Along With Neurotin And Celebrex. It's Worked Much...
    ... I take Ultracet , but I try not to take it on a regular basis. I have ... of meds. I am small and sensitive to medication and Ultracet seems to have a narcotic effect on me. Yes it works...
    ... Ultracet contains tylenol and only 37 1/2 MG of Ultram versus ... As an asthmatic, this is important for me. If 2 Ultracet have such an impact on you, then naturally you would...
    ... I would suggest to anyone who takes the Ultracet to just be very careful. Despite Ultracet being a ... Besides the potential and risk of addiction, taking Ultracet in large doses has a high potential for causing seizures ... epidemic of narcotic abuse by far also includes the ultracet . Ultracet is being abused just as much as Vicodin...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Duragesic Celebrex Percocet Tylenol Vicodin Ultram Oxycontin

  47. I need any1 who will listen. I just need support through all this anguish ..
    ... prescription for anything and i ran out of teh samples of ultracet and celebrex which didnt do much to begin with. They...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Celebrex Tylenol Vicodin

  48. pain meds not working
    ... I am on ultracet and celebrex and it doesnt seem to be working,maybe...
    ... Know very little about ultracet buy my understanding is that celebrex is an anti inflam...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Celebrex

  49. Pain Management Suggestions
    ... of Tylenol to go with the Ultram (first prescribed Ultracet but was so $$$ that the generic Ultram was prescribed...
    ... pain meds. We've tried the usual stuff..ultram and ultracet made me spacey. Somas have only been helpful occassionally...
    ... might need to raise the bar on your meds. Ultram and Ultracet were marketed as non-narcotic meds that would not ... Serotonin Uptake Inhibitor), getting of Ultram and Ultracet is harder than getting off some narcotics. I was ... given Ultracet when it first came out and it did nothing for me....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Skelaxin Tylenol Ultram Vicodin Fentanyl Neurontin Soma Valium Tramadol

  50. I'm getting surgery w/o insurance! YES!
    ... surgery is august 4th and i got samples of celebrex and ultracet that i am going to take tomorrow, hopefully they will...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Celebrex

  51. Work Comp Back Injury
    ... new course of meds including Cortisone, Flexeril and Ultracet and started me in low impact PT and aqua-PT. This...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Vicodin

  52. Any experience with Ultram?
    ... dry mouth from it. My doctor initially prescribed Ultracet but the cost was prohibitive so he changed the Rx...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Morphine Tylenol Ultram Vicodin sudafed

  53. Vicodin Vs. Ultraset?
    ... Ultracet (tramadol) first came out and Doctors were told that ... opiate drugs. Alot of doctors feel better prescribing Ultracet over vicodin because it keeps them off the radar from ... have read that many people have had withdrawls from Ultracet and recently read an article that suggesting it become ... you can reduce any withdrawls. You may find that Ultracet works fine, however, remember that it can have addictive ... effects like vicodin. So when you come off Ultracet , you will want to taper that also. Hope this helps...
    ... my dr told me that ultracet is about the same as taking a 800mg of motrin he said...
    ... Dealing-- I have been on both Vicodin and Ultracet , so I feel confident in giving you some advice. Vicodin ... addictive--DO NOT STOP TAKING THIS COLD TURKEY!!!!! Ultracet is a "synthetic" version of Vicodin and is not nearly ... the Vicodin. Mine had me take 3/4 Vicodin and 1/4 Ultracet for 2 weeks and step it down by 1/4 dose every 2 weeks...
    ... s Why I Am Up Now). Looking At The Description For Ultracet , It Says Not To Mix With Vicodin So I Hope I Can Get ... Minimal Withdrawls. I Have Noticed Though That The Ultracet Doesn't Seem To Work As Well With The Pain, It's Taking...
    ... should taper if you have been on it that long. Also, Ultracet (Tramadol and Tylenol) is addicting. Read the prescribing ... info. Also, Ultracet is not the synthetic version of Vicodin. Vicodin ... I would recommend reading the prescribing info for Ultracet from the manufacturer. It is actually only marketed...
    ... Thanks For The Info.!! What I Am Taking Is Ultracet , Is It The Same As Ultram??...
    ... practical means. Ultram (Tramadol) contains just that. Ultracet is Tramadol with Tylenol in it. It common for opiate...
    ... Sorry, to be more precise; Ultracet contains 37.5mg of Tramadol and 325mg of Tylenol....
    ... after taking your last dose of the the hydro and your ultracet will not help any of these side affects let me repeat ... though its alot better on you and good luck.about the ultracet well its not going to work as well as the hydrocodone...
    ... Asked For That Long To Be Switched. I Have To Take Two Ultracet Every Four Hours, But The Other Side Effects Are Gone ... This Is Going To Help Also. I Would Rather Take More Ultracet And Deal With A Little More Pain Than Go Through Those...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tramadol Vicodin Motrin Hydrocodone Tylenol Ultram Morphine Norco Oxycontin librium

  54. Tens Unit
    ... but there was still an underlying pain that only the Ultracet addressed. However, the IS unit did make a critical...

  55. Pm drs??
    ... areas of my back over the past 7 years. I was put on ultracet for back pain last winter & believe me, it's horribly ... bottle of wine a day to kill the pain. Getting off the ultracet was my worst nitemare! Pain meds are fine in moderation ... to get rid of it, I did too, a PM doc put me on the ultracet & never explained to me how addictive it was....

  56. Pain on my left side - please help!
    ... normal. I have been on so many anti inflammatories, ultracet ( which did help), and vicodin when the pain was horrible ... Then he retired:( . Next dr kept me on the xanax, ultracet , and vicodin for what i called break thru pain).. ... ..well the ultracet started to make me want to vomit....so he said to...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Vicodin Xanax

  57. Need some info on epidural injections
    ... (for inflamation), gabitrel (for nerve pain), and ultracet (for pain). I hope this helps....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Mobic Skelaxin

  58. Vioxx, Celebrex, Bextra
    ... itself. My pain management specialist prescribed Ultracet for the break through pain. During the day I take ... on a full stomach I have no problems with it. The Ultracet is a miracle drug for me. It can be habit forming ... for over a year now. Check out the Diclofenac and Ultracet . Nancy...
    ... Just a quick warning, Ultracet & Ultram are very addictive~~!! I was given ultracet ... from the market, I'm sure many of us will be given ultracet or ultram. I will NEVER take it again. It was a...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Bextra Diclofenac Vioxx Ultram

  59. Meds & Functional
    ... and some non-narcotic pain meds such as Ultram or Ultracet to use with patches. I am also allergic to many meds...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Ultram lidoderm

  60. Nerve Pain!!!!
    ... long term effect. On rougher days I take Ultram ( ultracet is weaker dose with tylenol and supposed to work the...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Lortab Tylenol Ultram lidoderm

  61. diclofenac - lower back pain
    ... tried. I currently use Ultram, which there is also Ultracet which uses less of the active ingredient and is mixed ... with tylenol. The Ultracet didn't work for me, but for those it helps, the impact...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Percocet Tylenol Ultram

  62. Is my Doc crazy or right?
    ... frankly, i've been on muscle relaxers for almost 5 yrs, ultracet for 2 yrs, and now have to take barbs for excruciating...

  63. Ultracet withdrawal Is HORRIBLE
    ... Sorry to hear that. I had a reaction to Ultracet , so I never had to experience the w/d's from it. ...
    ... affect people differently, and I am so thankful for Ultracet . I've been on it almost three years, and have had...
    ... both those meds were listed as not to be given with ultracet . Each time I cut back, I have the reactions....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Hydrocodone Ultram Klonopin

  64. seriously, I've just about had it.
    ... then found out that about the same withdrawal from ultracet which I also quit. I spent last nite laying on the...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Klonopin

  65. spondy questions
    ... pain meds ( originally Hydrocodone and Flexeril, then Ultracet , and now Tylenol #3), Also Zanaflex after the 1st...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Hydrocodone Tylenol Zanaflex

  66. Ultracet - Good or Bad?
    ... [QUOTE=lori j]Who has been on ultracet & how addictive is it over a period of several months ... well. I haven't had any side effects from ultracet , although someone I know took it after a hip replacement ... effects on different people. The big drawback to Ultracet is the price. Man, it's expensive!!...
    ... :) Hi, Ultracet didn't do a thing for me. No pain relief, no buzz...
    ... Ultracet did nothing for my pain... didn't even touch it.....
    ... HI, I've been on Ultracet since November and it did help a little at first,...
    ... what to watch out for. The only thing for me with Ultracet is to watch out for the amount of Tylenol I take per...
    ... [QUOTE=Better Late]HI, I've been on Ultracet since November and it did help a little at first,...
    ... Hi, All! I've been taking Ultracet for 2 years and it's worked really well. Although ... potential with the meds applicable to our problem, Ultracet is a non-narcotic painkiller. When my ortho was recommendi ... told them I didn't want narcotics, they recommended Ultracet . So far, so good. There is the Acetamenophen issue...
    ... alternating me from one meds to another. One month I get Ultracet /Zanaflex the next month I get Lortab/Robaxin and then ... I get Tylox/flexeril. I tend to take more of the ultracet than I do with the lortab and tylox. The doctor does...
    ... Hi, All! I've been taking Ultracet for 2 years and it's worked really well. Although ... potential with the meds applicable to our problem, Ultracet is a non-narcotic painkiller. When my ortho was recommendi ... told them I didn't want narcotics, they recommended Ultracet . So far, so good. There is the Acetamenophen issue...
    ... Ultracet contains tramadol and acetaminophen which is the active...
    ... Hi guys :) Ultram and Ultracet both contain Tramadol Ultram is 50 mg of Tramadol ... only and Ultracet is 37.5mg of Tramadol/with Tylenol. That is the difference...
    ... Update: Well, I quit the ultracet for two days & am having horrible withdrawal, also ... dizzy for two days straight now from quitting the ultracet ! Was dizzy when I took it too....
    ... [QUOTE=lori j]Update: Well, I quit the ultracet for two days & am having horrible withdrawal, also ... dizzy for two days straight now from quitting the ultracet ! Was dizzy when I took it too. I CANNOT believe...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Hydrocodone Methadone Neurontin Vicodin Tylenol Zanaflex Phenergan benadryl Flexeril Lortab Robaxin Acetaminophen Tramadol Ultram Xanax

  67. Sorry! Guess I need to vent a little or a lot!!
    ... could have let him anyway, lol. The new rx was for ultracet . I've had them before and they didn't help much then...
    ... depression thread. I do wish you well though and hope the ultracet works this time around. I wish you all the best memaw...
    ... spouses do not know how much we endure. Second........ Ultracet :)? did they say why they were taking you from 4 ... Lortabs per day to Ultracet ? That is a significant difference. I am sorry , I...
    ... tolerance to them. So he sent me a script for the ultracet , so we shall see. Thanks for your kind words and...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Lortab

  68. HOW do you stand it day to day????
    ... else feel this hopeless????????????? I quit the ultracet , it messes with your head, makes you spacey & dependant...
    ... else feel this hopeless????????????? I quit the ultracet , it messes with your head, makes you spacey & dependant...
    ... pretty limited with the pain. Went back to the ultracet today, couldn't stand the pain anymore. I appreciate...
    ... all and I rely on pain meds to keep me going. I take ultracet , two of them four times a day and darvocet when I...
    ... to. Best of Luck, Memaw Memaw, I've been on ultracet for pain & also naproxen for inflamation, plus I take ... help me sleep also. I'm afraid of addiction with the ultracet though!!! UGH!...
    ... forgot to answer you about meds, yes I've been on ultracet for pain. I hate taking it, it makes me dizzy & I...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Tylenol Percocet Naproxen Valium Cymbalta Methadone dilaudid

  69. Had my diskogram, have some questions
    ... entire time I've been injured - 2-1//2 years. I take Ultracet now. If I didn't have those pills, there are days...

  70. EMG - 2nd time around
    ... told him that not only is pt not helping, but the Ultracet that he prescribed doesn't touch my pain. He took...

  71. Lower back spasms....owwww..help!
    ... vicodin. It made me very nauseous. They switched me to ultracet & it doesn't upset my stomach at all....
    Medications also discussed in this post: Flexeril Vicodin toradol

  72. Frustrated by thoracic back pain
    ... will be getting cervical decompression. Without the ultracet for pain, I can't tolerate it. My thoracic area gets...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Neurontin

  73. Any recommendations for new pain meds?
    ... I am on naproxin (sp?) right now, also have ultracet , but it totally upsets my stomach & I can't tolerate ... it. Sorry, the ultracet works great for me, it's the vicodin that upsets my...
    ... My pain management dr just prescribed me ultracet - for my it doesn't touch my pain, so I don't bother...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Vicodin

  74. I'm sleepy!
    ... me! Thanks! My pain management Dr. prescribed me Ultracet ... 1-2 every 4 hrs... They don't do a damn thing...
    ... mg a day (I'm crazier then you ha ha) ~ Yeah, the Ultracet is terrible.... You mentioned that you are decorating...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Zoloft

  75. neurontin/terrible feeling side effects
    ... cramps within a week. Since then I have been taking " Ultracet " for pain, which is a non-narcotic pain medicine that...
    ... cramps within a week. Since then I have been taking " Ultracet " for pain, which is a non-narcotic pain medicine that...
    Medications also discussed in this post: Neurontin


  76. Pages :1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8