Discussions that mention valium

Pain Management board


Hi Scarlet, Becaue Lortab is a schecule 111 and not a schedule 11 it's not as simple as doing a quick count of their C-2 meds. C-2 are morphine, oxy, meth, higher strength meds with more potential for abuse.

With C-2's the pharmacist does have a down to the pill count running and checked weekly and submitted monthly to the Board of pharmnacy, A shortage on C-11's is easy to check. A shortage on C-111's is very difficult to check. My wife was in the biz for 8 years and went through many pharmacy inventories, How they count C-3,4's and 5's is by dollar Value.

For example, They purchase 5 bottles of 100 count lortab 7.5. for 50 bucks each, "wholesale cost." If they dispense 1 script for 100 pills they make less money than they would if they dispensed 10 scripts of 10 each, they would make about twice the money they would on a single script for 100.

There is a minimal charge for dispensing meds. I've seen dentists and docs dispense
2-3 valium tablets prior to work and the charge is rediclous compared to what you can get 100 for, but you have to pay a pharamcst 70 bucks an hour to fill the script. Your not going to get the script for 3 valium for 68 cents, so a minimal charge of say 5 bucks is charged for 3 pills when 100 valium sells for 12 bucks.

They know the dollar amount of all the meds they have in the pharamcy based on purchase orders, then subtract the C-2's. Then they count whole bottles and count the 50 bucks they paid for each. If a bottle is half full it's worth 25, if it's 1/4 it 12 bucks, they don't actually poor out and physically count every single med other than C-2's. So losses in dollar amount can easily be covered in the way the scripts are filled and the charge for each one.

If they have sold that one bottle of 100 in 5 or 10 different scripts, the return would be much greater, and the dollar amount sold is decducted from the dollar amount bought. As long as they come out in the black, there is no shortage in the pharmacy. This is how techs and pharmacist and other employees can get away with taking C-111's without causing a noticable shortage.

The dollar value loss will be made up in dispensing smaller quantity scripts that bring in more revenue. I know it sounds odd, But it's not realistic to count every single pill in the pharmacy. Only the C-2's have an on going log.

Although they can't pour out all the Lortab 7.5 and find if they are 7 pills short, you do want to talk to the PIC, "Pharmacist in charge." He's the one that has the responsability of maintaining the pharmacy and it's his licience that allows the pharamcy to be open. A pharnmacy can't operate without a specific PIC with a licence to operate the pharmacy. So the PIC is the pharmicist in charge. If he's been getting frequent calls from different people about odd shortages of meds that are abused, the hydro products, the benzo's etc, he will know he has an internal problem. If it's the same person calling on every script, the problem is likely the customer hoping to get extra meds..

It's a major red flag there is an internal problem when he's getting multiple calles each week about unusual shortages on non C-2 meds.. If he's already aware there is an internal problem he would likely replace the meds without question because it's not going to throw his dollar amount inventory off, but lets him know there is an ongoing problem that needs to be solved, usually by Video survailance.

If they is your first complaint and he doesn't consider you a drug abuser, because this is also a common ploy of abusers to say they were shorted. Hopefully your relationship and trust with your pharmacist will prevail, but there really isn't a way for the pharmacist to do a C-111 count because it's based on dollar value not number of pills. At least here in VA at Revco, Eckerds and Rite Aid. Where my wife managed stores for 8 years.

Class 11 meds are different, there is a log and an ongoing count that can be checked. Each time a C-2 is dispensed it's written in the log and a copy of the script goes to the Board of pharmacy. So a shortage of say Percocet can be easly counted and figured out if they have an extra 7 pills, being over is just as bad as being short in the eyes of the board of pharmacy and the DEA, It means there was a misfuill of the most controlled drugs in the pharmacy. If tha pharmacy was auduited and each pill isn't acounted for it goes into a file and enough descrepency can cause the PIC to be censured, 3 month suspension of licence, 6 month etc.

But class 111 meds aren't acounted for in the same manner. If they think they should have 200 dollars worth of lortab and at the end of the year they are in the black as they should be, no questions are asked. I saw someone ask there pharamcist recently are meds cheaper the more you get and the pharamcist said no, that's absolutely wrong. They are cheaper the more you get. A one months supply would cost you less then if you had to fill 4 individual 1 week supplies of the exact same med. If you pay cash or if it just means 3 extra copays.

But that's how pharmacies are counted at those 3 pharmacy retailers in VA. C-2 are crucial, the rest are simply dollar amount of the meds remaining on the shelf, meds dispensed and then the "wholesale" amount purchased is subtracted. If they are in the black, No questions are asked and THey are always in the black on C3,4 and 5's by virtue of 10 scrpts for 10 pills will bring in twice the dollar revenue that a single script for 100 pills would. So a tech or pharmacist or manager that grabs a bottle of Vicodin will likely get away with theft for qite some time untill a sharp pharmacist starts noticing he's ordering more meds than dispensing. Or that bottle of Lortab he just opened is gone when he goes to fill his next script.

They are putting computer chips into drug bottles and tracking them like lojack now. I am surprised all the hoopla about the DEA making Hydro products a class 11 med has died down.The director of the DEA vowed to make all hydro products a C-11 by Jan1 2005. I haven't seen anything new since that statement back in july. I would assume enough pharmacy lobbyist have done their job and realize how much this would cost the pharmacuetical biz if Hydro products became class 11's.

Docs would be just as afraid to prescribe Vicodin as they are Percocet or Morphine and the hydro products are the most prescribed pain meds in the US, and the most abused. I think the DEA just learned a big lesson in the economics of politics. The pharma biz has more lobbyist than any other biz in the country, 3 lobbyist for each and every congressman and senator in washigton. They can't outright give them money but the perks are amazing.

A pharmacy comapant can pay for an educational trip to learn about drug production and efforts made to stop dversion. The educational trip may include 4 first class round trip tickets to switzerland and a week in the nicest hotel at christmas time along with ski passes and comp meals. As long as there is a meeting with a pharma rep, they are legitamately there for education.

Sorry about your misfill, But I would report it , just report it to the PIC, the persons who's licence is on the line if they have a problem in that pharmacy. If you report it to a tech and they are the thief or report it to the manager and they are a theief, you may be SOL. Hopefully the PIC knows you, knows you have never made a complaint like this and may be aware there is something funky going on that he hasn't been able to pin down yet.

Each company my wife worked for had a quarterly news paper, and each had a section called the "gotcha" report that always had a healthy list of employees who were cought stealing and the meds were obviosly the most valuable thing in the store to steal. Security would go in at night and set up cameras with the district manager that nobody would know about, not even the PIC and it wasn't hard to catch someone once the problem was noticed or reported by enough customers that someones got their hand in the candy jar.

Good luck, Dave