Discussions that mention vicodin

Addiction & Recovery board


Note:
The Sample Home Detox (w/OTC WD Coping Options) has been established by the Moderator as a sticky post and can be found as the top "sticky post" at the top of each list.

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Following are the various discussions regarding it and detox in general.
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My personal experience with the OTC Coping Options List:
3 times----first with Vicodin, Xanax, and then Tramadol. It has been a year since I last detoxed. And, I am having surgery again in a month and came to the Boards to find information on managing post-surgery concerns. Several people were on the same board in the middle of detox and on bridge of aborting so I went digging for all my personal journal notes on how I did the home detox. It is a compilation of home detox suggestions from various people on various boards, and as written represents my own personal detox plan. I thought I would post it here to help others. I was sooooooo greatful to find OTC relief to help me get through it that I wanted to give thanks by giving back to others. The more that we can help others get off this crap the better. It is a horrible demon to have on your back-----as we all know, you transition from painfree euphoria to an imprisoned Vicodin haze that blunts and controls everything in your life where nothing else begins to matter except counting and splitting pills to get to your next RX date:(

For me, each time I used almost everything on the list. The only thing I didn't need was the Immodium; never had the runs that most do...so that shows that everyone will not experience WDs exactly the same, but there are universal things as stated on the list. For me the Xanax and the Tramadol detox was far worse and longer than the Vicodin. Though let there be no doubt that Vicodin is difficult as evidenced by the fact that so many end up having to professionally detox to be successful. However, with this list and self-dertermination folks can do it. The worst of the Vicodin detox is usually days 2-4 for most people where you are definitely not functioning well, and not sleeping hardly at all. After Day 4 things start stabilizing where you can at least sleep some and that helps. I definitely was not able to work during that time. As to what works, everything on the list collectively helps. For what works best, if I had to single any one thing out I would have to say hot baths. Almost always when I was absolutely at the end of my rope I would run a bubble bath of water as HOT as I could stand it as that would settle nerves and leg twitches, but only temporarily. For the first 4 days I probably took somewhere between 6-10 HOT baths a day. Next, would be the hot rice socks to settle the same symptoms whenever I was too waterlogged or exhausted to get in the tub. It is really hard to single any one thing out though. For example, sleep deprivation is horrible and all the things that helped induce sleep also helps. But then there is the 20-30 min day exercise----sooooooooo critical to get that body working for YOU again...it takes 20-30 min a day to get your endorphins jumpstarted and producing natural dopamine. When that kicks in the WD joint pain subsides considerably. Now, I can tell you that the Zinc/Magnesium part of the formula is a recent addition, and that was not part of my original formula, but based on the experience of others it seems extremely critical. Every last one of the people that added it, and they were in the middle detox, felt some relief right away and said the relief built everyday. From their experience we concluded that if you were to start the Zinc/Mag 1-2 weeks in advance and build up that it would make a major difference. It not only helps w/WD pain and depression, but folks after detox stated it helped them with pain management since they were no longer on RX pain meds.

When I did my detoxes I researched and prepared well for it as I was terrified to detox at home, but there was no way I was going through the open humilation of professional detox center. I am sure I spent over $200 for everything I bought to do the detox. Sounds like a lot, but pales in comparison to what I had been spending for years on medications....so, I reconciled it with myself that it was my insurance policy to ensure success of ridding myself of that tether to a pillbottle.

As to percentage, I have not detoxed without using the formula so its really hard to say on that. I have no doubt though that without the formula, for me personally I am not sure that I would have made it through the Xanax or Tramadol detox without it. I would have likely made it on the Vicodin detox but I think it would have been twice as bad. I can tell you the most recent gal to do it, just got her Vicodin RX for 120 pills filled last Wed and by the following Tues she had only 1 pill left. She was forced into this because no more pills....cold turkey from 120 pills in one week type habit to 0, OUCH. I gave her the list to help as she was terrified as to what to expect and could not tell her husband what she had done. Well, today is Day 3 cold turkey for her which is usually one of the worst days, and she remarkably states she feels pretty good and thusfar is having minimal WDs---pretty phenominal, but things could be delayed...who knows, bless her heart. I know the principal thing from the list of what she is using that she seems to be crediting the difference to is the Zinc/Mag (must be taken w/food or it will make you sick). I know that she is also using Immodium and other things from the list to help, but she has not yet specified exactly what things. She was thrust into detox with no planning so no time to plan and shop in advance so she is having to use things that she already had at home, and fortunately she had Zinc, Immodium, and a few others. I will ask her specifically what she has.

Once you cut that pillbottle tether rope, the rope wraps tightly around the pole for a few days while in WDs, but then it loosens, lets go, and hangs straight giving you control of YOUR life back....FREEDOM. It is a wonderful feeling to be a full functioning memeber of my family again and not thinking of pills the first thing when I wake up in the morning. Anyway, hope I have answered your questions; am happy to help.
Luvn, you are quite welcome. Its great that you are doing a taper. It is very hard I know....we have all been on some form of taper at some point if nothing more than splitting pills to make them last between RX refills....so I understand what you are going through is a real challenge, but good for you in your determination!! Focus on how great you are going to feel when it is over!!! Start building up your body nutrient base now w/good multi-vitamin and a multi-mineral, add additional C & E as they are excellent anti-oxidants. Most multi-vitamins have some minerals in them but you will need an additional broad spectrum multi-mineral supplement, plus extras of some particular vitamins; most importantly the Zinc, B-Complex pillform and B-Complex Sublingual Liquid Drops. The reason for both pillform and drops in the B-Complex is the pillform has higher levels of all the Bs except B-12 which is pointless to put in pillform because the body can not absorb it very well from pillform. B-12 is vital for energy and the central nervous system, but the body can only absorb it from natural dietary sources, injectable form, or sublingual liquid form under the tongue. The B-Complex sublingual w/B-12 has an elevated amount of B-12 w/very low amounts of the other B-Vitamins so it works well in harmony together.

Substance abuse in any form substantially robs the body of vital nutrients. For example, something we can all relate to as well is alchohol hangovers. Almost everyone has had one at one time or another in their life where the next morning you have the jittery shakes and jittery nauseous stomach. That is because high alcohol intake depletes the body of Vitamin Bs. If you take a VitB-Complex, 100 mg, before you leave the house or have first drink, it will substantially mitigate the hangover feeling. It will help even more if you also drink 2-3 glasses or more of water throughout the evening. Now will that work for heavy binge drinkers? Probably not. Will it work for people who have just a little more than they should? For most, probably yes, at least you will be somewhat functional the following day and not porcelain royalty or with one foot hanging off the bed;)

Vicodin addiction is not all that different, with the exception that the chemical composition in it blunts the body's ability to feel the full force of the nutrient depletion. However, once the Vicodin is stopped, that is felt full force and whiplash WDs begin. The goal is to mitigate that effect. Building a solid nutrient base BEFORE detox substantially helps and results in a more stabilized detox with lessened WDs. Adding the nutrients only AFTER the detox WDs have started requires substantially increased supplement levels and results in rollercoaster WDs, but can be done. The greatest success and the best for your body comes from the most stabilized and sensible approach; i.e., building a solid nutrient base first and supports more reasonable supplement levels during detox.

Exercise as much as you can. For the first several minutes your body's workmen are all trying, but they all doing different things and not working in efficient harmony together. It takes 20-30 min of exercise to get them synchronized and working in efficiently. Once they get used to it, they get organized and get on the job on their own more quickly. It is the only way to get your body's own natural factory working again. You see, not only have you been trapped in a Vicodin haze for sometime now, so has your body's workmen. They have all become slackers because they weren't needed as long as you were externally providing what nature designed them to do. So, they have been on a longggggggggg coffee break for however long you have been externally supplying a different source. Once the external source stops, it sends fire alarm bells loudly clanging and the workmen have jumped up and are running around all in different directions to finding to find their gear and figure out what the hell they did with the keys to the truck!!! It will take them a few days to get back on the job efficiently for you, but they will. They are designed by nature to do it naturally. By exercising YOU get them organized and it is your body's natural process of giving them instruction on what to do for you. If you don't give the instruction/exercise, they will eventually figure it out on their own, but it will take them longer without a crew leader, YOU!
Hello everyone. Since clearly there are a several folks reading this thread I decided to add additional information about how I first ended up on the painkiller merrygoround in hopes that it may help others to recognize signs/concerns more quickly than I did.

I struggle w/Fibromyalgia. My doctor's treatment philosophy was pain meds which is how I ended up on long-term Vicodin in the first place. I was frst placed on it for a back injury, and during the diagnostic of that back injury they learned I also had Fibromyalgia, voila--painkillers. After I built tolerance/dependency, and the Rush Limbaugh media coverage mess, I wanted off. My doctor switched me to Tramadol/Ultram, which he said was non-addictive; wrong. For me that detox was actually worse than Vicodin. The leg syndrome and central nervous system impact of the Tramadol detox was worse. My doctor insisted it couldn't be because it is supposedly not addictive. All you have to do is read message boards online and see what others post on their experience with Ultram/Tramadol, and you will see it is clearly addictive w/WDs. After that experience I should have stayed off for good, but allowed my doctor to put me back on the Vicodin again. Big mistake, can't believe I was so stupid to let that happen after what I had been through already from it-- but I did. My doctor said I would be fine fine w/it since I had been off of it for months. Well, I wasn't fine with it. I should have STAYED off of it! Within 3 months, perhaps even sooner and I just didn't sense the signs, I had rebuilt tolerance and dependency again. After that, I decided I absolutely have to get off of ALL this RX level painkiller stuff for good because clearly the medical field just doesn't know enough about it. I mean when they put you on stuff and tell you it is non-addictive and with your own experience you learn that for you it is worse??? The bottom line is they just don't know or they are not being honest about it. Either way, it means I am done being a long term lab rat regarding RX level painkillers

Now, I rely on OTC stuff, nutritional supplements, exercise, hot/cold pak therapy, TENS unit when it is really bad, acupuncture, and accupressure massage. For me, those things knock off the edges of it much of the time, but not always. But, then after I built tolerance/dependency w/painkillers not only did that no longer work, I now had a dependency problem to detox from So, for me, I was in a far worse situation in the long run. While the things I am doing now doesn't eliminate the pain completely, neither did the painkillers long term (only very short term for me), this is better for my needs. Now, I reflect back on it and wish I had realized all this more quickly and done something much sooner than I did. All the special events for loved ones through the years where I was awol because of being too "sick" to go. I realize now that what I was actually experiencing each month at the end of the RX cylce was miniseries days of WDs. I never tried to find "other supply resources", thank God because if I had then I may never have come to the much needed self-realization that I had to get off of it.

What has brought me back to the boards again reviewing posts, where I was compelled to post what I know to help others, is that I am now facing surgery again in a month which means short-term painkillers. I am wondering about the experience of others regarding dependency re-hook limits w/short-term post surgery painkillers?ny reply posts on that would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks:)
I was on it for about 5 years. During that time I have detoxed 3 times, using variations of this formula, associated w/3 different medications; Xanax, Vicodin, & Tramadol.

It would really be nice if the medical profession would figure this s**t out so we don't have to concoct our own formula by hit/miss trials without a clue. I am convinced they know, and just aren't telling us. I mean if I have figured out as much as I have as a layperson then I know they know...they have to. This stuff isn't rocket science for pete's sake. They can put a man on the moon---they can figure this out. But just imagine how much money the pharmaceutical companies would loose from the millions they make on poor schleps like us? So, it should come as no surprise to us that it is in their best financial interest to do exactly as they do...nothing. They reconcile that reasoning with the fact that we are grown adults and have the right to make responsible choices for ourselves. Well, I exercised my right to do just that.

The trouble I have now is really watching my doctors who carelessly prescribe whatever without telling me the real dangers or worse yet telling me there ISN'T a danger....like I was told regarding Ultram/Tramadol they switched me to when I expressed concern about the Vicodin. Those WDs me were worse for me than w/the Vicodin! I am now close to paranoid level about what my doctors prescribe because with each medication I was prescribed by a doctor and never bought *other supply resources*.

People who reading these posts will hopefully learn from some of our experiences and avoid what we have been through. I trusted and followed exactly what the doctors prescribed. Because of that, I never thought I had a problem with it. I knew *some* people had problems but *those* were the people who buy it on the street or online...not prescribed by a doctor, *like me*...WRONG. I didn't know I had a problem until it was too late. Reflecting back on it now, the first warning signs for me were when I felt the urge to take early doses and wondered if I should take my doctor up on his offer to increase level/type of medication.....then when I started worrying about working my personal life schedules around when my RX was due....next sign was when I had to start splitting pills because of accommodating early doses and my determination to not change meds...I'd just make these work but change my doseages around....*just based on needs*. Then sometimes I had fleeting thoughts about just wondering if online sources really work and how all that works.........IF *those* kinds of thoughts are going through your head....combined with the fact that *something* broght you to this board in the first place as evidenced by the fact that you are even reading this at all....then you already have an *awareness*, though perhaps maybe not quite yet an acceptance, that there may be a problem. If you are wondering at all, then it is time to do something. I just wish I had realized that earlier than I did.

GREEN, yes, if any one single thing must be the answer, then it would unquestionably be exercise. The human body is a marvelous creation designed to heal itself and care for itself. The "booster button switch" to the brain is exercise. Physical exercise exerts "a demand" on the body which signals the brain to produce "extra" of everything that will help it to heal itself physically and emotionally. All of the supplements in the home detox are intended to be time limited assist aides to help the body during the worst of WDs when a person is generally not very capable of exercise. The goal is to support the body with time-limited OTC coping supplements that will enable them to reach the physical energy/endurance point where exercise can begin; with a taper of the OTC supplements thereafter---ultimately replacing most, if not all, the OTC supplements with a good exercise program.
Syzy, many of us have felt what you feel. You have taken a hard first step, the decision to make a change in your life. You CAN do it. It won't be without a challenge, but with determination and courage you WILL prevail. Look at it this way, sooner or later in life you will HAVE to take this step anyway, it is inevitable for all. Life is truly very short, so whatever the bad parts are for any of us it is best to muster up the courage to stomp through the worst parts to shorten them as much as possible and fill your life with the quality good parts to the greatest extent possible. In doing nothing, we are in fact choosing to stay in the bad parts for longer than necessary whatever reason, and in my opinion that is truly when professional help is needed because we are incapable of truly helping ourselves. You, however, have recognized that you need to make a positive change and improve your quality of life. And, you will be so glad that you did.

I think that most failed detoxes are the result of not having a plan where when the worst part hits it is easier to allow yourself to abort. If you are prepared, know what to expect and have coping options to assist you to ride it out you will get to the other side of it. Read back through this thread to familiarize yourself with the detox cycle; plan and shop for your OTC detox coping options. Make sure you note times, what you take and in what combinations, and effectiveness for you....everyone's chemistry is different so you have to somewhat experiment with what combinations help take the edge off for you. Vicodin has a half-life of 4-8 hours, so that means that 8-16 hours after last dose is when the effects of WDs will begin....they will progressively increase and peak about days 3-5, lasting between 24-48 hours, varies based on individual chemistry. Some people feel WD relief between Day 4-5. Basically what you can expect is feeling like you have the worst case of the flu you have ever had. Symptoms vary among individuals, for example, many get diahhreah with fewer numbers reporting vomitting---I never had either of those, just some nausea for me....I had horrible joint aches, extreme "coffee jitters", headaches, and sleeplessness....a feeling that I just couldn't be "still with myself" ...the leg syndrome with cycle of restless legs/heavy legs/restless legs again.....difficulty concentrating....very easily aggitated....emotional roller coaster feeling from irritable to easily angered to weepy.

Just know that when it seems that it is at its worst is when you are about to turn the corner and reach the other side. Even after reaching the other side where the worst subsides your body still has to rebalance and build itself back again through good diet, supplements, and EXERCISE.

Plan your detox where your worst days will be days off from work. While some people have posted early in their detox that they are still working , my guess is that most if not all of them end up aborting the detox when the worst starts because I just can not imagine a person being able to continue working during that phase so for some they have no choice but to abort in order to be able to continue working. I know there is no way I personally could have worked during it....but, detox WDs are not exactly the same for every person. All of us have our own unique chemistries and state of health conditions so it affects us to greater and lesser degrees. Also know that many folks on another board have posted profound WD relief was obtained by taking Zinc/Magnesium, but make sure you eat food before taking it or it WILL make you very sick on your stomach. Also they say to get maximum benefit from it you really need to start taking it a week before commencing the detox. For those who have already started detox and looking for coping options, know that others who were already in detox before starting the Zinc posted they still received some relief with it so it is worth a consideration to start it.

Envision the process much like cutting loose a ball tethered to a pole.......when you cut lose your Vicodin tether bottle, your rope is going to wrap tightly around the pole for a few days w/WDs...then it will loosen, let go, and hang straight.....you just have to hang on while your body re-regulates itself again and kicks up its own natural production factory of endorphins to deliver natural dopamine from your internal source....it will work....you are designed by nature......you can prime the pump to get it working sooner and more efficiently by placing a demand for it on the body through exercise....very hard to do until you are through the worst of WDs however, but do as much as you can, it will help...even if you are only able to do resting position muscle tightening/relaxing exercises....just tighten muscles as rigidly as you can for as long as you can to place a demand signal from the muscle to the brain to get working damnit.
You have to wretch control back from the drug demon that has hijacked the operation of YOUR factory. You can do it. If I can do it, trust me, ANYONE can do it. I was absolutely terrified to detox on my own...wondering if I could do it without having to tell anyone.....I was just too humiliated to tell a soul about what I had allowed to happen to me so I was determined. That being said, there are people who MUST tell others in order for them to be successful where they need to have external pill controls or emotional support. I knew that was not me. My situation was that I had become drug dependent with RX through my doctor...my situation was not recreational at all....in fact I had been on the RX for so long that there was no euphoria effect at all and I never increased levels or bought sources elsewhere chasing that euphoria....for me it was about pain management and over time became about dependency managagement....fortunately I never evolved to the next level of abuse management...thank God....my heart sincerely goes out to all who are in that situation and still find the internal strength to fight and come back. I can only imagine how hard of a struggle that must be.
Hi Shelley, I am happy to offer suggestions for you to consider and decide for yourself on your best options as I am not a medical professional. I am very sorry about your bout with cancer, prayers are with you. Very glad you recognized dependency signs and commenced a taper reduction...good for you!!! congratulations!!!

Now, first regarding the symptoms you describe. They sound exactly like what would occur with drug withdrawals (WDs). According to the quick online research, Norco is a combination opiate derivative of both Hydrocodone (vicodin) and acetaminophen (tylenol). While WDs can vary from person to person based on individual unique chemistry balances, the typical universal WD patterns are the same as the worst flu one could imagine. In particular, the back and joint pain you describe would be very consistent opiate WDs. For some people days 3-4 are the worst and for others it can be days 5-6. The taper reduction you followed sounds like you may have tapered too quickly. Drug taper recommendations seem to vary greatly depending on the source. I have read varying taper dose recommendations that include, but are certainly not limited to, the following.

Taper dose by 20-25%:
-every 3-7 days (total taper elimiation would equal approximately 30 days)
-every 30 days (total taper elimation would equal 4-5 months)

So, it sounds like you did the total taper, 100% reduction, in about a week if I am reading your post correctly. If correct, then that sounds like a very fast taper, and would not likely eliminate or perhaps even lessen WDs. None of that is neither here or there since the good news is that you now at 4 or 5 days off:) Shelley, hang tough girl....you are going through the worst....know that when it is at its worst is when it is about to turn the corner and get better....do NOT abort....you have come too far.

Next phase is that you go through your central nervous system and muscles transitioning from the drug-deadened state they have been in as a result of external blocking.....your legs will at first feel very heavy....like they are on somebody else's body....it will be hard but not completely impossible to motivate....just rest as much as you can...it will pass in about 12-24 hours.....but, it will be replaced by restless legs where the nerve endings and muscles are coming to life again....you may experience lil electrical sensory tingling where at times it feels like you are having difficulty just being still with yourself....HOT BATHS....AS MANY AS YOU WANT TO TAKE AND AS HOT AS YOU CAN STAND IT.. (I took 6-10 hot baths a day), Use ASPERCREME if you have it and if not...heating pad or fill cotton socks with rice and make hot rice packs ...2 min in microwave....once the heavy legs stop and the electric legs start you MUST exercise...hard I know because you will be exhausted but you must.....it takes 20-30 min a day to jumpstart your body's own natural endorphin system to produce its own natural dopamine which is the body's defense chemistry against pain, depression, and supports sleep cycle. The vitamin/nutritional mega-dose supplements are intended to only help bridge the process until your body can start producing for itself. The human body is truly a miracle....it WILL produce what it needs when it is not interfered with by external factors. What has happened is when we introduced external products (painkillers) into our body's factory our brains read the signals and therefore responded by shutting down the factory since the supply was being externally provided. When you abruptly withdraw the external supply, and whoaaaaaaaaaa, the ole body jumps up and down, alarm bells start clanging like mad...aka WDs.....all signaling alerts.....heyyyyyyyyyyy she quit taking the s**t!!!! All your lil internal workmen are kicking the crap out of each other and YOU and running around looking for their equipment....they are not used to functioning together after the longggggggggggggg coffeebreak they have been on for months or years, however long you have been providing the external supply. But, they WILL get their act together and get back on the job and start producing what your body needs. The event that coordinates them is EXERCISE....it places an external demand on the system for more gojuice and fast....the more the demand (exercise) the more quickly organized they will get....it develops an internal rhythm for them where they function to the beat. It may all sound crazy, but it is true. If you can make yourself exercise for 20-30 min a day....it can be only walking.....we are not talking marathon running here.....start out gradual and build up...begin as soon as you can with the muscle tightening/relaxing exercises outlined in the Detox post ....then begin exercises as soon as you can even if only 5 min at time ...just do it 6 times a day and build up...just do what you can and as much as you can. After you are able to reach 20-30 min you will feel a difference within an hour of stopping. Once you start to feel it, and you WILL---I guarantee it, your own personal experience will motivate you to do more. You are sooooooooooooo close to victory lane Shelley!!!! Reread the Vicodin Home Remedy Detox post I did...there are many OTC options and suggestions.