Discussions that mention vicodin

Pain Management board


tandy,hi this is marcia,i answered your other post like a week ago? sorry i hadn't had the time to get back to it yet. i am just wondering if this nephew has a past history of drug abuse or something since you seem very much overly concerned about the possibility of an addiction developing with him being on pain meds? despite being told what you were here by others and myself that the overall risks of actual addiction are really very low in anyone who is truely suffering the type of pain he is, you still don;t seem convinced so thats whay i am asking this question.

please don't take any offense to what i just asked,it would simply really be helpful to know that for us to help you in the very best ways. i myself am a former active addict who is on some pretty strong pain meds becasue of very very severe chronic pain. i am not proud of that but right now am what i consider to be a totally completely inactive addict. luckily for me when the real true need for narcotics happened i had had alot of clean time in place. i have managed to be totally and completley compliant with all my meds despite my past history. my PM is a very crucial part of my compliance and i could not have done this without their monitoring and direction that i just need right now. so if this is indeed the case with your nephew,we really do need to know. there is more than just me on this board who is actually in the very same situation as me. just really needed to ask that.

i would seriously doubt that any pain meds would be responsible(was he on pain meds before the aneurysm was found?) for a brain aneurysm just given what creates them. tho narcotics can increase cranial pressure,but you would seriously have to speak to a neurologsit about that part. it would not seem 'likely"? but anything is possible if he was using alot of pain meds BEFORE the aneurysm actually developed. small chance there maybe but not the really strongest link. what causes the increased cranial pressure is actually within the CSF(cerebral spinal fluid) and not within the arteries them selves.when my aneurysm was found,my neurosurgeon never said one word connecting my use of oxycontin to my aneurysm at all,and i was still allowed to stay on them before my aneurysm was coiled too,so i am guessing that the increase in cranial pressure would not actually affect the arteries to any huge degree. no one said one word,not even my neuroradiologist who did my aneurysm coling.

so is aneurysm what they have now actually confirmed this is or was? what is his current status with that? a burst aneurysm generally will heavily bleed not just appear with a small amount of blood,are they absolutely certain this was indeed even an aneurysm and not an actual veinous fed type of vascular malformation? it would just better explain the smaller amout of blood and not a huge bleed like most aneurysms actually have the tendency to do when they rupture ya know? veinous fed lesions however would simply kind of "ooze" blood,which kind of sounds like what you actually explained in the other post?

honestly,given just what i know the pain levels can be with aneurysm,let alone one that has appeared to have actually ruptured(am i right there?) i personally feel that a stronger med would probably be much more helpful than plain old vicodin with his level of pain. he is really on the lower end of the hydrocodone dosing here with only 5/500.

aneurysms actually form in the brain when there is an actual "weakening" within the arterial wall of one of the arteries up there. it will sort of balloon out and create a "pocket' or bulge within that wall that can easily rupture if too much pressure(blood pressure really counts here)is suddenly running thru that artery or it just gets too big and that wall thins out too much. it would not take much depending upon the actual size of the aneurysm to have it burst. the most common reason for them to really create themselves is high blood pressure that has not been well controlled. in my case tho,my BPs are actually 'under' the normal, i am what is called HYPO tensive and not HYPER tensive, but i have a kidney/liver disease that for some reason makes me at higher risk for all kinds of vascular malformations to develop because i am 'missing' some sort of enzyme or protien that actually makes up the walls of all my vessels. i just was born with naturally weaker blood vessels than the norm.

there are many different types of actual vascular malformations that are possible to have both in the brain and in other organs too. one is called a cavernous hemangioma. this i was actually born with right inside of my spinal cord. these can also form within the brain too. i am really wondering,given the fact that this was not an actul heavy bleed and the fact that cavernous hemangiomas will NOT show up(light up?) on any type of angiogram or MRA,simply becasue they are not arterially fed,they are veinous,that this could be what your nephew actually had/has,and not an actual "aneurysm per se, you know what i mean? only arteries show up on angios and MRAs, but an MRI(with contrast is always better) would possibly show a veinous fed lesion that just would not be there when they only look at the arteries. the veinous fed vascular malformation just really would make much more sense given what you have stated here as not showing up,but yet he did have a bleed, ya know? just some info for you. i had to research ALOT on vascular malforamtions when my cavernous hemangioma was just found upon a simple MRI just to really find out what i was really dealing with. then the aneurysm popped in later in 05 so i had to research those too. i know way too much about this stuff than anyone should have to.

what are the plans here for your nephew at this point and what is the brain status like? how much of his pain is really being controlled with only the vicodin to use with some,at times,pretty over the top type of pain i am sure he is actually still dealing with? any info you could provide for us would help us better help you here ya know? also knowing what the plan is for his 'malformation' would help too. sorry i did not get back to you much sooner than this,i have been dealing with my own situation way too much right now too. but please let me know what i asked,K? take care hon,marcia
annie,have you yourself ever actually had at least an MRI run on your brain just to make certain everything is just 'normal" in there? i am only asking since it does appear that this has been(the head pain) a very long chronic type of issue for you. there could be some reason,such as some level of congenital issue in there that just sets the stage for you to be more prone to headaches,you know what i mean? some types of just strange vascular configurations that you were simply born with and the way your vessels were arranged while in utero could also be responsible for certain types of headaches to occur,you know what i mean? is this nephew with the aneurysm actually blood related to you?

your spine issues too could be exacerbating the headache stuff as well,i know my c spine problems keep triggering really ugly base of my skull headaches. i use fioricet vs fiorinal like you do. just an FYI for you here about the fiorinal? for some insane reason,the codiene in that stuff actually appeared to make my head pain worse,not better. thats why i take the fioricet. it has the same exact properties as the fiorinal minus the codiene. the barbiturate that is in both meds is what really helps with the headache,vs the narcotic codiene.you could give that a try and see how it works for you. just a thought.

just a couple of things about your nephews situation here. the simple fact that he IS actually able to still walk,even with a walker,is HUGE annie,really huge. he will just have to regroup the muscle tone and stability thru therepy and not have to start right at the beginning by strengthening his legs to just be able to even stand up like i did. thats a biggie,believe me. i am wondering also just how well his pain is being controlled with only vicodin to use for what can be some really serious type pain from what occured in his brain(he is also being limited as to how much he can actually take by the amount of tylenol in that vicodin too)? does he even appear to be comfortable when he takes it or still having alot of uncontrolled type pain? if this stuff simply is not strong enough for him or is just not controlling pain at all,his docs need to know this so they can try something else. he should NOT have to suffer with what i know can be some pretty awful pain given what took place up there. there just ARE much more effective types of meds he could be taking til that blood gets absorbed and they can "do" whatever they are planning to actually "do" with this vessel. i still am rather confused about that dx too. if you can get your hands on at least the angio report and post it here or an MRI or MRA report,i really would appreciate it. something just doesn;t "sound' right with this for some reason to me. its just that arteries generally will not just stop bleeding on their own without some type of actual intervention just becasue of that very high pressure that is within them,you know what i mean? thats the confusing part to me anyways. any arterial bleed,espescially within the brain,is just a really big deal ya know? knowing just what artery this was in would really possibly explain it much more clearly. anything that is within whats called the 'circle of willis" or COW for short,is always a traumatic bleed vs in some lower pressure areas. the actual vessel involved would just be very helpful to know,and may explain things much better.

he just really DOES NEED all of those medical records and test results from the hospital. if god forbid,something should ever happen to him like this again or some other medical issue comes up in the future,having these records all contained in some type of file that he can take with him to whatever hospital he is going to(or even if he is out of town he needs to carry these records with him too in his suitcase)will save a heck of alot of time and hassle and also gives the ER docs a good baseline medical history to start from. its just really important,believe me.

i would seriously find out just how bad and how well managed your nephews pain actually is. if he is contiuing to suffer here,something NEEDS to be changed by his docs to just better manage his pain while he is IN pain. there are just so many better choices,and ones that he could use without having to worry about the tylenol limitations. it gives the ability to just medicate round the clock if needed since the tylenol would not be an issue at all,ya know? he should NOT have to be suffering,period. even going up to like the percocet 10/325 would be a huge step up without as much tylenol,and then there is dilaudid,depending upon just how severe his pain is. the dilaudid was the ONLY med that helped with my post coiling headaches.they got pretty ugly there for about one month and then slowly went away. just ask him about his pain and see what may eed to change. please keep us posted annie. marcia